Romance in Project Eternity: How Important, How Much

[Merin]

Hopefully time enough has passed to try this again...

 

and hopefully we can all stay on target and leave the personal attacks at home.

 

 

Role-playing games are many different things to many different people. For some it's about stats and loot. Others see it about projecting themselves into a world and making decisions as they would. Still others want a great story, and feel that the interactivity that role-playing games generally provide allows for a deeper story. And for some, the RP matters little as it's the G that counts – they just want to play a game, win the game, and everything else is window dressing... or distraction.

 

But there are also those who see the RP part to mean role-playing, as in creating a role for their character and guiding their character to act as they feel is according to their nature. For most who see the RP of RPG this way, they do not project themselves into the the characters... they divorce themselves from their character and try to play the character according to the personality and such they created.

 

In general, two types of players tend to get along fairly well... the role-player who wants to create their character and have their character act accordingly, and the player who is looking for a great story to interact with.

 

 

Both of those groups tend to be the ones who like romance in their game. Romance is so much part of the human condition, and every story is on some level about being human... so naturally romance is in almost every story. On top of this, rare is the actual fully realized character who has no desire for any sort of close companionship. The absolute loner is a rarity, and rarely portrayed well. In all but the most open of sandbox games they cannot interact well with the game world as they seek to avoid others.

 

Romance in games is not for everyone. After all, what of those other types of players for RPGs? What does romance have to do with stats, loot or “winning”... and when romance tries to have anything to do with those things, this is when it usually gets really bad. Poorly written romances are as cringe worthy as poorly written villains or plot-hole ridden stories.

 

 

----

 

With this all in mind, I put forth a new poll for romances – since all the other threads are closed. I am doing my best to give enough options to represent a range of desires, and to word the options with as little personal bias as possible. I hope that this stimulates a reasonably useful poll and a positive, enlightening conversation where all sides have an equal say in a safe environment.

 

I'd also like comments left - the forums limited it to three poll questions, and I had a fourth. I guess we'll go for short answer on it and I'll just pose it here -

 

4 - If Project Eternity does include romance, how do you want it implemented?

some thoughts on the ways: just backstory and NPCs; player character with an NPC/NPCs; player character with companions; just amongst companions; flirting; platonic relationships... lots of ways it could be done, not just the PC on companions model (though, if that's what you want, go ahead and voice your desire for it)

 

 

4 is for whether you want romances or not, what you'd feel the best implementation would be.

---

 

While I am just one more forum member with no power to enforce any rules, I can make a strong plea at the outset...

 

Don't troll. Do not insult others for stating their opinion on romance in games, regardless of what that opinion is, nor for their opinion on games that held romances. Those opinions are clearly their business, and they have a right to it. What we don't have a right to is harassing them about said opinions.

 

And if someone DOES try to insult you for your opinion – please ignore the insults. If you want to try and engage them, feel free, but the best way to keep the thread open and productive is to just not take the bait.

 

----

useful reading:

http://www.giantbomb...romance/92-253/

http://bitmob.com/articles/love-game

http://dirolab.com/2...ience-and-love/

http://zompist.wordp...in-video-games/

[Chunkyman]

They aren't needed, but they can be an enjoyable part of the game. I don't feel strongly either way.

[LadyCrimson]

Not important, don't want too much of it in the game, but some romantic context/flavor in quests or certain npc's is fine with me. In terms of the main character (you), if it's included I'd definitely want it to be optional ... if I don't want to romance anyone as the pc, I shouldn't have to in order to achieve any main goal of the game.

[PsychoBlonde]

For me, in RPG's there is usually one or more characters that I'd really like to romance but can't, and it would just be nice if you could. That being said, I find I don't like the way Bioware does it that much, where you always have a couple of in-party characters that you can romance, plus a brothel. I would much rather have a wide variety of potential romances be salted all over the game--NPCs, party companions, heck, even ENEMIES you wind up killing.

 

I think Obsidian could really accomplish this well due to the way Chris Avellone talks about writing dialog--he likes to have dialog where if you really pay attention to what's going on and pursue certain things, you can have a very different experience and learn very interesting things. So I'd kind of like it if some of the romances are hidden behind a complex series of gameplay choices and dialog choices. Granted, it'd also be nice if some of the romances are considerably easier to dig up than this. Nor do the "easier" ones necessarily have to be *more casual* in the whole depth of affection sense.

 

I would also really, really, hugely, majorly appreciate it if every. single. romance. doesn't follow the same general structure as the entire rest of the game, so you only get to chat with your romance in an increasingly familiar fashion until the night before the last battle where they finally confess their love and you have sex. NO. Have OPTIONS please. Have a romance where you can get married early in the game and they stay home and most of your interaction with them consists of you visiting them, telling them about your problems, getting advice/sympathy, etc.

 

And please don't copy the system from DA2 where initiating a romance means, universally, flirting with a given companion. Maybe you bring them a special gift. Maybe you stand up for them. Maybe you make horrible jokes until they pee themselves. Maybe you're just the Only Sane Man.

 

Oh, and please have options where your responses don't amount to "Tee Hee" and "Kick them to the Curb". Something along the lines of "let them down gently" (perhaps followed by a righteous slap and kicking them out if they don't get the hint) would also be nice.

[Sensuki]

I'd like to see a different take on them if they are included, such as their volatile nature or something.

[eimatshya]

Nice post and polls, OP. I generally don't engage in romances in cRPGs, but I do on occasion. I've seen some game romances that I thought were done well, and also ones that were not so good, but I don't have any objection with them being in the game as long as they are optional. I think of it is another way to develop characters, thereby adding more depth to the world and your interactions with it (although like any element of the story, if they aren't done well, they may have a detrimental, rather than positive, effect).

 

As I've posted in other threads, I think attraction is something that naturally occurs and is especially likely to develop when people spend a lot of time together. As such, I think giving players the opportunity to act on the attractions that may arise between their character and certain NPCs makes perfect sense. How much of a "romance" this may turn into could vary. They don't have to move past the incipient phase, like the romances in PS:T, but if they do, that can be all right, as well.

 

Anyway, I would like to at least have the option since, if not done poorly, romances broaden the range of possible interactions with the characters of the world (a plus in my book). That said, romance should be an option, not something you are railroaded into. You should also be able to cultivate friendships with your followers (or antagonistic relationships if that's more your thing).

 

In the end though, if incorporating decent or better romances would be too labor intensive, I won't lose any sleep over their absence (like I said, I only participate in them sporadically). Alternately, if the writers just don't want to do them, I wouldn't want to force anyone to write something if it will be a miserable experience for them to do so (I know Avellone has stated his dislike of romances in the past).

Edited September 26, 2012 by eimatshya

[GhostofAnakin]

I don't mind romances that aren't intrusive or forced upon me. The difficulty is making it a believable romance, and not one that looks like it was forced into the story "just because".

 

I also don't want romances included if it means sacrificing a more important -- to me -- feature. In other words, if none of the essential stuff isn't sacrificed AND the romance is written into the story in a way that makes sense and flows well with the rest of the game, I'm okay with them being included.

[Monte Carlo]

Please let it go. Please.

 

And I mean this in the nicest possible way... the Bioware Social Network is made for you. If I had a company making old-skool games that had a forum packed with frothing at the mouth grognards who liked the stuff I do I'd camp on that forum and stay there.

[nikolokolus]

I've always found in-game romances to be a little bit cheesy, so I tend to prefer they were not included in a game ... with one notable exception: When the romance is in someway central to the story or plot. Planescape handled this pretty well, Bioware has typically done a poor job IMO, particularly with their Dragon Age stuff (DA:2 still turns my stomach because of how badly it was done).

 

So I don't think my way is the only way and I have no objection to their inclusion if people really want them, but I would prefer that Obsidian put those precious development resources elsewhere in the game.

[kenup]

Isn't there a thread for this already? Do we really need a second one?

[Merin]

Isn't there a thread for this already? Do we really need a second one?

 

Actually, no, the last one was closed this morning. They are doing their best to keep topics to one thread, merging multiples of the same thing, closing threads when they reach a certain post count.

 

So this is now the only romance thread.

 

Which I did mention, for the record.

 

With this all in mind, I put forth a new poll for romances – since all the other threads are closed.

 

 

----

 

In other news, I think if you look at the current results for question's 2 and 3, you see an interesting inversion. It'll be interesting to see if that remains true going forward.

[Aedelric]

I have no interest in romances, but I trust Obsidian to do what is right for the game and their fans, be it that they include romance or not.

[Monte Carlo]

Poor old MCA. I hope, if they decided to write a romance, he creates the most savage anti-romance ever. Where the romance-weenies get pwned by a sado-uber-biyatch NPC that the rest of us would simply put to the sword.

[Phekdra]

Not and none, and can I request that any further threads with 'romance' in the title are autolocked and the poster hung upside down and forced to play Bioware games until Project Eternity is released.

 

I'd just like to qualify that by saying I have nothing against Bioware games, but it might keep people satisfied in the sex simulator department.

[BSoda]

Romances certainly have the potential to be a great addition to any RPG ...and if I trust any company to actually get them right, it's Obsidian.

[Gromnir]

we won't discuss what makes a good game romance. wont discuss the level o' lasciviousness appropriate. wont discuss same-sex romance. we told somebody that we wouldn't be responding to the romance threads, but we will make one observation that we will no doubt needs repeat a few thousand times:

 

romance is Not fodder for a tangential side-quest.

 

we are not anti-romance. many o' the bestest stories is romances. we is not necessarily a romantic, but we likes a good romance. at the same time, we not want romance forced 'pon us. the thing is, we gets a bit queasy when we consider the notion o' an optional and tangential romantic side-quest. is invariably rushed as you gots very limited number o' dialog encounters to complete a full romance arc. am not seeing a way to reconcile our desire for romance to be optional with our recognition that romance is not viable in a tangential vignette.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[metiman]

http://vimeo.com/18479035

 

Lots of options but you haven't actually defined what you mean by a "romance". Do you mean an in-game love interest like Deionarra in PS:T or do you mean a Bioware style romance minigame? Without a definition your choices are meaningless. I think as part of the main plot they can be as good as the writer's ability. As a minigame that is not part of the plot they are a waste of developer resources.

Edited September 26, 2012 by metiman

[Monte Carlo]

I think Grom is saying that romances should be **** or bust, all or nothing, to work compellingly. Which would require a CRPG where the romance was a major story-arc. I have nothing against such a project, I wouldn't buy it but it would certainly be viable. But given that the pre-cursor products that inspired PE had only marginal romance content it isn't appropriate for this.

[mya79]

Good tread I support romance if Obsdian is agree for have in this game but I prefer have more quality than quantity ( I saw I repeat again I think it's very important).

 

For me for have good romance : -a excellent writter for the quest with the heros

- more equitable for the team compagnon ( don't need to have 10 compagnons just 2 or 4 maxi)

- and make just and option if the players don't want romance

- and important no fanbase for impact the history or change X o Y !

I am confident to Obsidian to make good history for romance for all

[Monte Carlo]

And herein lies the rub: mya79 thinks that her ideal romance means there might need only be 2 or 4 NPCs.

 

This is to accommodate a decent romance.

 

OK, her preference is her preference. But I will defend the position that dumping the other NPCs just for a romance is nuts.

[PaganPoetry]

To anyone complaining:

 

It's one thread. ONE THREAD. If you dislike the discussion then why are continuing to open it? Like..........? When a romance thread (because it gets too long, or goes off topic, etc.) gets closed, a new one is opened to continue the discussion. I think it's official: the people complaining about the BSN mindset as it concerns romance now outnumber the number of people supposedly adopting that mindset here.

 

Like I said in the last thread, I am all for the inclusion of romance in the game. If it's included, I hope it's open to all types of players, not just the (male) hetero crowd. But it will never be a deal breaker for me. I think it's a very good way to explore some emotional and potentially moral landscapes, the latter of which seems particularly untouched (Bioware was almost... almost there with the Anders arc, but didn't quite reach the moral complexity I was looking for). I think it makes sense for a traveling party to see some of its members, who depend upon one another and are presumably fiercely loyal to one another (or else why would you be there?), take the next step emotionally and physically if they choose to go there.

[d0riangray]

Great thread an poll questions!

 

Personally, I absolutely want romances (including same-gender ones) included in the game, it just does not make sense for me to play a RPG that relies heavily on character interaction and development without any romance happening. Not having the option to romance your companions would take an important dimension out of the game and would reduce my enjoyment of the game greatly.

[mya79]

It's important to respect opinion for the gamer mens and girls, after I think a lot of people don't want the system of romance same as Bioware, and I am agree for this point ( fanbase excessif) but please if a category personn don't want romance ok it's her choice but respect the person who want romance for the game.

 

Thanks

[mya79]

For me I have no problem for have same gender, but I don't want again this system unrealistic with all bi !! ok with variety compaginon : hetero and gay ! and cool the romance is just an choice just an option !

Edited September 26, 2012 by mya79

[PaganPoetry]

I would be fine with that mya, but I do not think that uniquely hetereo/gay love interests are very realistic only because it potentially alienates so many people. I would love to see it though since it really does potentially add a lot to the characters if they have more concrete sexualities.