Identifying found items

[Darth Trethon]

I would definitely enjoy this, at least for the more mystical and powerful artifacts we might run across.

 

But please... No identifying an item to find out it's an exciting Longsword +1, for the love of god.

 

precisely this....advance craft and legendary items YES, my character would have a hard time knowing exactly what they do but common items should be easy to identify.....yes I know what a basic bandit sword looks like or what the issue swords of the city guards are and so on.

 

But there should be some level of knowledge gained by experimentation....using it should tell you if it deals frost or fire damage for example. Additionally even the effects you don't know of and cannot discover yourself should still be at work even before you learn of them....the item doesn't read your mind and stops doing what it does just because you don't know....be it good or bad.

[OldRPG'sAreGood]

I'd like to see identification take a bit more than a spell. Even an expensive scroll would be enough though. But the need to go to a sorcerer or a sage or the like would be nice, as it'd show that not everyone knows arcane secrets of items both old and new. One thing though that I'd like as well, would be that gathering a library of books(which for conveniance of carry weight could be placed within the possible player house) would help with lore checks.

[cyberarmy]

I think its best to use a side skill similar as Lore for identifying artefacts. Minor magical items should be known by some cultures but not all.

And if we dont have any groupie with Lore we can always ask some with vast knowladge.

[IchigoRXC]

Someone like Giles in Buffy the Vampire Slayer. If you want to know about this extremely old rare weapon you found hidden deep in a dungeon no one has touched in centuries, the lore master may take a while sifting through his books and scrolls looking for a description that matches the weapon you have brought.

[Balor]

Well, not being able to use an item till you know that this is exactly +1 dagger of back-scratching is silly.

 

But finding a dagger that gives off some faint magic aura, using it for some time, and then taking it to some loremaster that describes it's rich history (we will have those, remember) and unlocks some extra, not obvious powers - this is different.

 

Or have someone sell you a brightly gloving, ornate sword... that turns to be an gloving gaudy trinket.

[hideo kuze]

I already mentioned my opinion on the first page (wall of text detracted users?), but since so many are still mentioning scrolls and books, or being a hostage of the town's loremaster...

 

While in theory having to carry or read books or scrolls to identify or increase your lore skill makes sense, the problem is that it breaks the gameplay system.

 

The best solution is to have a lore skill that is increased like any other skill.

 

The books and lore should still be in the game like in BG2. As item descriptions and stories.

[Volourn]

IDing through items/scrolls/scores like lore/ enchanters are a cool must of the genre. Cursed items should also be brought back too - not enough games make use of them.

 

Some people above call these 'timewasters' or 'ruiners of fun' but I believe they add to the game play, the funness of discovery, and making us curiosor and curisoer.

 

Afterall, a magic item that you can't id by simply picking up will make you be very interested in what it does making you salivate and be excited when you finally get the chance to know what it is.

 

Stuff like swords+1 is stuff a basic lore skill could allow the party loremaster know without going tom use a spell/item/or knowledgable npc.

 

I also love the idea of for 'legendary items' to have potential secret powers you can only discover through use or through other side quests to 'unlock' powers.

 

 

LONG LIVE MAKING DISCOVERING MAGIC ITEMS AS PART OF THE GAME PLAY EXPERIENCE!!!

[Suen]

Most of the items should reveal their properties by simply being used.

A great scholar should be able to identify the properties of almost any object, through testing.

High level cursed items shouldn't necessarily make you feel cursed.

[Kissamies]

Yeah, I like the IDing, but unidentified items must be usable unlike in some of the more recent games using the mechanic. I also wouldn't mind if the more obvious properties could be revealed on use. It should be pretty obvious that a dagger hit better and does more damage than normal when it's used to carve up a couple of foes, but it also being able to shoot fireballs when it's pointed at something and a command word is uttered might not be as obvious.

[IchigoRXC]

I already mentioned my opinion on the first page (wall of text detracted users?), but since so many are still mentioning scrolls and books, or being a hostage of the town's loremaster...

 

While in theory having to carry or read books or scrolls to identify or increase your lore skill makes sense, the problem is that it breaks the gameplay system.

 

The best solution is to have a lore skill that is increased like any other skill.

 

The books and lore should still be in the game like in BG2. As item descriptions and stories.

 

I am well aware of your wall of text, I have read it and noted it. However I carry on with my personal view because your "best solution" does not fit what I would like to see in this game. The adventurers are not "hostage" to the town's Loremaster, it is a service, one we can do without through several means. If you have a "loremaster" party member then you have your source of indentification for all but the most hidden and lost legendary items. You also have the ability to just slap the item on and try it out. The more adventurous folks among us may want to just try it out and see what happens. Perhaps there should be a way of learning its abilities through usage (obviously not it's backstory that would be a job for people with massive books filled full of history and lore)

 

I think if there was to be an "indentify spell" then it would have to scale with level. I don't want a level 1 magic user to be able to identify the most legendary lost item of this world. The scrolls would work in the same fashion. Perhaps the spells work directly with your "lore skill" creating an average between that and your magic capability.

 

Also I would like it if a cursed item applied the curse directly to the target but as was mentioned earlier are not always immediately noticeable. Thus the item can be removed and you would be none the wiser.

Edited September 25, 2012 by IchigoRXC

[Umberlin]

I'm for having to identify something mysterious, old or just plain completely unknown but I agree that the typical +1 sword of whatever that you find countless of . . . shouldn't need identified. Then again I tended to have a higher skill so I didn't tend to bother with spells and such for identification. I like it when my character knows things. Always seems more interesting than a character that doesn't know much at all.

[LordCrash]

Most of you really hang on to the "classic" RPG identify mechanisms, I see. But in my opinion these mechanics are better suited for a turn-based game in which you have to decide what you do in each round. In a real-time with pause games these classis identify mechanics looks quite a bit artificial and don't really fit in the gameplay (besides the fact that these mechanisms are really unrealistic when it comes to overall fitting in the world).

 

So I would prefer a more sophisticated system in which only very few people have knowledge about legendary items and you have to find out the secrets of these items in a much more complex way by finding the people who knows about it or by finding ancient books with the proper information. It shouldn't be as easy as paying the next best sorcerer in town for the task or even worse as easy as casting a spell or identify it with a personal skill. That's boring and little innovative....

[Umberlin]

Most of you really hang on to the "classic" RPG identify mechanisms, I see. But in my opinion these mechanics are better suited for a turn-based game in which you have to decide what you do in each round. In a real-time with pause games these classis identify mechanics looks quite a bit artificial and don't really fit in the gameplay (besides the fact that these mechanisms are really unrealistic when it comes to overall fitting in the world).

 

So I would prefer a more sophisticated system in which only very few people have knowledge about legendary items and you have to find out the secrets of these items in a much more complex way by finding the people who knows about it or by finding ancient books with the proper information. It shouldn't be as easy as paying the next best sorcerer in town for the task or even worse as easy as casting a spell or identify it with a personal skill. That's boring and little innovative....

 

Who is to say your character, by how you've grown them, isn't someone that knows 'what this is'? That's always been the point of the lore skill, to me, in part at least. That idea that you have to go to this person to find out about X makes a person wonder at some point, if they know, the knowledge exists, so why couldn't your character be the sort that researches such things, and thus have such knowledge themselves - provided you built them in such a way? Not to discount your point on going to the local shop for a scroll/identification, mind you, because that is a legitimate point.

 

I don't find identifying it with a skill you've chosen to invest in is a bad thing at all, it's not boring, it's a way of defining your character. A lore skill check is used for far more than identifying an item besides.

[Lady Evenstar]

I want identification to be a big thing, loved it in the BG games and when modded it added even more unidentified items to the game. I would also like people to sell items thinking they know what they are but upon further inspection your lore master reveals a little more than the store clerk knew, or perhaps noticing the clerk was just lying to you.

 

No, thank you. What an annoyance!

[Rabain]

It would be really funny if you got a quest to get the Missing Sword of Awesomeness from the Lost Caverns of Doom and when you got back to town the Loremaster says "what is this crap, its a +1 shortsword" because the real Sword of Awesomeness wasn't in the hand of the Skeleton King, it was wrapped in an oilcloth, in a bucket at the bottom of a well ...

 

Anyway there are some really crappy identify systems in some games. Dragon Age doesn't bother with identification at all, Diablo 3 lets you right click to identify...nothing else required, total waste of time. Baldur's Gate kind of had a decent system, where you had to put some effort in, either by paying a vendor, memorising the spell (at the cost of some other combat spell) or carrying scrolls. As your characters levelled up the low level gear was easily identified by Lore values while higher level stuff still required effort.

 

I wouldn't want something too complicated because personally I think it detracts from the game, just forcing you to jump through hoops either by travel, or requiring some potion with material cost etc. The simple BG system seems best because you still get the thrill of finding out exactly what you got with a tiny cost associated with identifying it but not detracting too much from actually playing the game. A nice little edition might be for icons not to be so obvious before identification so you really don't know what it is, it could be the Sword of Awesomeness or Shortsword +1, you just have to identify it first, not just look at the icon.

[Amentep]

Plus if they put in a lore check they have to make it do something or no one would ever use it. And if you're wanting to play as a learned sage (maybe talky or magician) being able to "know stuff" would be your thing in the game and I think that kind of character really calls for a lore skill.

 

But that doesn't mean that your PC is automatically an expert and I could see even with a lore skill in play a benefit to someone with more arcane knowledge (as both a trainer for character who want to be know it all and those who can help identify for those who don't have an egghead in their group).

 

You can even still have quest related knowledge gathering; the PC could recognize that they need certain rare books to identify a particularly arcane item and starts the quest off there.

[LordCrash]

Most of you really hang on to the "classic" RPG identify mechanisms, I see. But in my opinion these mechanics are better suited for a turn-based game in which you have to decide what you do in each round. In a real-time with pause games these classis identify mechanics looks quite a bit artificial and don't really fit in the gameplay (besides the fact that these mechanisms are really unrealistic when it comes to overall fitting in the world).

 

So I would prefer a more sophisticated system in which only very few people have knowledge about legendary items and you have to find out the secrets of these items in a much more complex way by finding the people who knows about it or by finding ancient books with the proper information. It shouldn't be as easy as paying the next best sorcerer in town for the task or even worse as easy as casting a spell or identify it with a personal skill. That's boring and little innovative....

 

Who is to say your character, by how you've grown them, isn't someone that knows 'what this is'? That's always been the point of the lore skill, to me, in part at least. That idea that you have to go to this person to find out about X makes a person wonder at some point, if they know, the knowledge exists, so why couldn't your character be the sort that researches such things, and thus have such knowledge themselves - provided you built them in such a way? Not to discount your point on going to the local shop for a scroll/identification, mind you, because that is a legitimate point.

 

I don't find identifying it with a skill you've chosen to invest in is a bad thing at all, it's not boring, it's a way of defining your character. A lore skill check is used for far more than identifying an item besides.

It's not very realistic that your character knows every legendary item ever created in the universe of PE with a maximum lore skill. Of course, this could be true for more ordniary magical item (like the mentioned longsword +1 or armor +5% fire protection) but in my opinon not for the real legendary items. It would be much more fascinating if you have to reveal the hidden information about them little by little (like a quest). I really don't like super-human characters who know everything in the universe.

[Rabain]

Who is to say that Legendary items are always unknown missing items though? Isn't that the whole logic behind Lore in DnD in the first place? It is not that you just pick something up and look at it with your magnifying glass and say "Hmmm this is Shortsword +1!", it is that you have experience and knowledge other people do not.

 

In fact Legendary items should be easier to recognise because they probably have unique features other weapons do not. A Hammer with a golden head that glows white? Sounds like Ashideena, I read a book about that once in Candlekeep...etc. That is Lore. Of course you could be wrong but its a game so you are either right or wrong when you try to identify something using Lore. Identifying something using magic is different to Lore, it is a bit like scrying, the spell is examining the item at a fundamental level and recognising inherent magical qualities and because you are the one casting the spell you get the results.

 

Anyway, I really hope there aren't so many Legendary items that we need some crazy identify process in the first place.

[Amentep]

Most of you really hang on to the "classic" RPG identify mechanisms, I see. But in my opinion these mechanics are better suited for a turn-based game in which you have to decide what you do in each round. In a real-time with pause games these classis identify mechanics looks quite a bit artificial and don't really fit in the gameplay (besides the fact that these mechanisms are really unrealistic when it comes to overall fitting in the world).

 

So I would prefer a more sophisticated system in which only very few people have knowledge about legendary items and you have to find out the secrets of these items in a much more complex way by finding the people who knows about it or by finding ancient books with the proper information. It shouldn't be as easy as paying the next best sorcerer in town for the task or even worse as easy as casting a spell or identify it with a personal skill. That's boring and little innovative....

 

Who is to say your character, by how you've grown them, isn't someone that knows 'what this is'? That's always been the point of the lore skill, to me, in part at least. That idea that you have to go to this person to find out about X makes a person wonder at some point, if they know, the knowledge exists, so why couldn't your character be the sort that researches such things, and thus have such knowledge themselves - provided you built them in such a way? Not to discount your point on going to the local shop for a scroll/identification, mind you, because that is a legitimate point.

 

I don't find identifying it with a skill you've chosen to invest in is a bad thing at all, it's not boring, it's a way of defining your character. A lore skill check is used for far more than identifying an item besides.

It's not very realistic that your character knows every legendary item ever created in the universe of PE with a maximum lore skill. Of course, this could be true for more ordniary magical item (like the mentioned longsword +1 or armor +5% fire protection) but in my opinon not for the real legendary items. It would be much more fascinating if you have to reveal the hidden information about them little by little (like a quest). I really don't like super-human characters who know everything in the universe.

 

I agree, but I think the high lore character in this case might be used to advance the quest in a different way.

 

Low lore character goes to shop; shop can't identify it. Refers to specialist, specialist sends party on quest to retrieve items that he needs, eventually can detail the item.

 

High lore character can't identify the relic but knows of an item that might have something about such an artifact so essentially sends himself out on the same quest (in this case unlike the specialist who may be able to give the low lore character options on which item to get first, the high lore character has to find each item to reveal the need for the next item). Once the high lore character gets all the items they can identify the relic with the bonus that now that the high lore character has researched this type of relic he may now be able to identify other relics from the same time period or culture.

[Bhazor]

Identifying spells/items is something I really miss from the Infinity era. There was just a huge sense of excitement emerging from a dungeon with arms full of unknown treasures not knowing their true worth. The gamble of using unidentified items and finding out their cursed (the girdle of feminity, anyone?).

 

But there does need to be reasonable lore rules. Characters able to recognise common items or items they've already identified, all characters checking items as soon as they're picked up and most of all combat skills giving a lore bonus to paticular items. It always bugged me that my level 15 master swordsman couldn't identify a +1 sword when he saw one.

Edited September 25, 2012 by Bhazor

[OldRPG'sAreGood]

Weapon skills should pitch in to the lore checks(if there are any!) IMO. Because it would be rather dumb if my character who's a grand master in the art of sword fighting would pick up a sword and just say:

 

"Well, it's a sword all right. Can't say much more than that."

[Umberlin]

Most of you really hang on to the "classic" RPG identify mechanisms, I see. But in my opinion these mechanics are better suited for a turn-based game in which you have to decide what you do in each round. In a real-time with pause games these classis identify mechanics looks quite a bit artificial and don't really fit in the gameplay (besides the fact that these mechanisms are really unrealistic when it comes to overall fitting in the world).

 

So I would prefer a more sophisticated system in which only very few people have knowledge about legendary items and you have to find out the secrets of these items in a much more complex way by finding the people who knows about it or by finding ancient books with the proper information. It shouldn't be as easy as paying the next best sorcerer in town for the task or even worse as easy as casting a spell or identify it with a personal skill. That's boring and little innovative....

 

Who is to say your character, by how you've grown them, isn't someone that knows 'what this is'? That's always been the point of the lore skill, to me, in part at least. That idea that you have to go to this person to find out about X makes a person wonder at some point, if they know, the knowledge exists, so why couldn't your character be the sort that researches such things, and thus have such knowledge themselves - provided you built them in such a way? Not to discount your point on going to the local shop for a scroll/identification, mind you, because that is a legitimate point.

 

I don't find identifying it with a skill you've chosen to invest in is a bad thing at all, it's not boring, it's a way of defining your character. A lore skill check is used for far more than identifying an item besides.

It's not very realistic that your character knows every legendary item ever created in the universe of PE with a maximum lore skill. Of course, this could be true for more ordniary magical item (like the mentioned longsword +1 or armor +5% fire protection) but in my opinon not for the real legendary items. It would be much more fascinating if you have to reveal the hidden information about them little by little (like a quest). I really don't like super-human characters who know everything in the universe.

 

That's not what the lore skill means. The lore skill is a representation of what you know. Not a form of omniscience. You can fail a lore check and not know something.

[Hormalakh]

Wanted to necro this thread, because I wanted to know what people's thoughts were on the topic. I actually want to know if the devs have actually made a decision on this, but while we wait for that, if any new ideas have come up I'd like to hear them.

 

I personally like the whole idea of having an ability to "quickly" (not by having to spend money or anything, just a quick party-lore check) identify lower-level items (regular +1's), but the only way you could identify higher-tier items would be to use the item over a period (short or long, depending on item, perhaps?). This allows all items to come into play instead of making any item that is automatically lower than your avenger+5, merchant trash. The risk/reward structure is a little better. You risk wielding a weaker weapon/cursed item for a while until you have enough experience to "know" what it does. Your reward is that you can sell it at a higher merchant price. Or if you don't like risking the time period, you can't sell the item at such a high price. Cursed items might be sold at a higher price too to "cursed-item merchants" who love to cheat adventurers (like you).

 

Perhaps there are other ways of identifying an item too. For example, unidentified epic items always come with a basic description of that item and players who read the tomes in the story (adding to specific lore) will more quickly identify a specific item. If read somewhere that there exists a red sword with a purple gem that is the flaming sword +3 and you find a red sword with a purple gem, you more quickly realize this is (or isn't) the famed flaming sword +3.

 

Or you could "metagame" that. By that I mean, the PC doesn't really identify items with in-game lore any faster than other items. However, you the player, who have read that book about the flaming sword, and who find a weapon fitting that description will think you "know." Therefore you let your PC use that item. Over time you find out if your meta-lore was right or not.

 

Perhaps as you increase in levels, even lower tier weapons become easier to identify (shorter or even immediate identification). Like now you can know generic +2 weapons.

 

This would mean that identify scrolls don't exist (for things above generic +1) and lore-masters wouldn't really know either. They could perhaps give you clues (i.e. I once heard that the flaming sword+5 is a red sword with purple gems, but there are quite a few cursed and non-cursed items with a similar description. I can't rightly know until I use the sword for some time.)

 

So, Obsidian. Any news on this behalf? Have you made a decision about this?

Edited November 30, 2012 by Hormalakh

[jivex5k]

I would definitely enjoy this, at least for the more mystical and powerful artifacts we might run across.

 

But please... No identifying an item to find out it's an exciting Longsword +1, for the love of god.

Bam!

You hit the nail on the head man.

Identifying items has a sense of wonder and excitement...not unlike opening a present.

But if every +1 item is unidentified it becomes a chore instead of a pleasure.

[Jarmo]

I'd prefer ID'ing of items was mostly through lore, might take time as should ID through spells or divinations.

Definitely shouldn't take much player effort, just one click and wham, the bard as ID'd all party items her skills are capable of identifying.

 

And definitely allow the use of unknown items, whats the fun in cursed items otherwise, give bonus to lore check if the item is tried?

"Aye laddie, thar's an inscription in elder speak saying "Ye Olde Ringe of Stryngthe +1" and wearing this makes me feel strong, so I'd guess it's ring of strength plus one."

 

Or something...