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How forgiving is your cup of tea? (plot difficulty thread)

exodiark
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205 members have voted

  1. 1. Choose a level of plot difficulty:

    • Very Easy. You just can't end the game plot prematurely, like most RPGs nowadays.
      11
    • Easy. The game will tell you if your selected choice will end the plot prematurely.
      9
    • Normal. The game does not tell which choice leads to game over, but does tell you to save in different slot beforehand.
      26
    • Hard. The game gives no warning at all about game over choices, but those choices are still easy to spot if you pay attention to the plot.
      104
    • Very Hard. Like Hard, but the game over choices are much MUCH more harder to spot.
      25
    • Old School. Like Very Hard, but the choice is spread through different chapters. So if you choose a wrong choice in Ch. 2, you will get a game over in Ch. 5
      21
    • Sierra. Like Old School, but the choice is incredibly missable. If you forgot to unlock the dog's pen in Ch.2, the dog won't save you in Chapter 8.
      9

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exodiark

exodiark

Posted
Posted (edited)

There are gameplay difficulties, but I think it would be better if the plot is challenging as well :D

So, what do you think?

 

For example, Morrowind belongs to "Hard."

If you kill plot-important NPCs, you will get a "you should feel bad" message and you can't continue the main plot, therefore "game over."

 

For JRPG players, Persona 3 and 4 also belongs to "Hard"

Edited by exodiark
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BruceVC

BruceVC

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Posted

This isn't an adventure game. There isn't really a "plot difficulty".

 

Why not?

This isn't an adventure game. There isn't really a "plot difficulty".

 

Why not :D?

It doesn't have to be as much as adventure games, but one or two plot pitfalls can really make the game more exciting :)

 

I agree, the plot choices should influence other choices but not where you can't finish the main story. There should be consequences

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Athokas

Athokas

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Posted

I voted 'hard' though I was inclined to vote ' old school' :D. Though it might scare others away, I feel some of the appeal of these old school games is, that they are so difficult and unforgiving. Remember in NWN when you would spend a lot of time clearing a dungeon just to get instant-killed by the first trapped chest you try to open and having to do it all again? Or in BG1 when, if playing as a mage, the first wolf you met in the forest could kill you in one hit? I think this unforgivness - frustrating as it is - brings an intensity and reality you just dont find in the modern cake-walk games.

 

BTW. remember when you chose to attack Gorion, just to check out what would happen? He'd say "What are you doing, my child?" before blowing you to smithereens with magic missiles! :D

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SanguineAngel

SanguineAngel

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I'd rather not see game over partway through the game. Maybe a different [still satisfying] ending or a change to main plot. But it would be swell if these large decisions are not telegraphed to the player Bioware style.

 

Although when it comes to being killed, hard please. Punishing traps! Tricky NPCs. Having to actually think about what you are doing. No to decisions made 10 hours ago killing you now but yes to doing something stupid/unlucky and going splat

Edited by SanguineAngel
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exodiark

exodiark

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I voted 'hard' though I was inclined to vote ' old school' :D. Though it might scare others away, I feel some of the appeal of these old school games is, that they are so difficult and unforgiving. Remember in NWN when you would spend a lot of time clearing a dungeon just to get instant-killed by the first trapped chest you try to open and having to do it all again? Or in BG1 when, if playing as a mage, the first wolf you met in the forest could kill you in one hit? I think this unforgivness - frustrating as it is - brings an intensity and reality you just dont find in the modern cake-walk games.

 

BTW. remember when you chose to attack Gorion, just to check out what would happen? He'd say "What are you doing, my child?" before blowing you to smithereens with magic missiles! :D

 

 

It's true!

Nothing gives me more pleasure than reloading my saved games from 2-3 hours ago XD

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Monkcrab

Monkcrab

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Voted hard.

 

'Pay attention to the plot' should mean REALLY paying attention to the plot, though, so actually my 'hard' might as well be 'Very hard'....

 

Why are we assuming game over plot choices will be there, anyway?

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exodiark

exodiark

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Voted hard.

 

'Pay attention to the plot' should mean REALLY paying attention to the plot, though, so actually my 'hard' might as well be 'Very hard'....

 

Why are we assuming game over plot choices will be there, anyway?

 

Well, some old RPGs have game over choices/ bad ending/ etc. Since they're making a classic-style RPG, maybe there will be one or two?

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kenup

kenup

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LoL at the Sierra choice! I guess I would go for something between Hard-V. Hard and old school. But I wouldn't mind if they put in the Sierra one as a joke! I always hated that bethesda is hand holding the players. "Oops you can't kill *important* NPCs", or "Oh you shouldn't do that, now go take that other just as easy route".

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exodiark

exodiark

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LoL at the Sierra choice! I guess I would go for something between Hard-V. Hard and old school. But I wouldn't mind if they put in the Sierra one as a joke! I always hated that bethesda is hand holding the players. "Oops you can't kill *important* NPCs", or "Oh you shouldn't do that, now go take that other just as easy route".

 

Yeah :D, I was hoping there will be an equivalent of FONV "Wild Wasteland" in PE. That way Obsi can put as much as joke they want.

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Orchomene

Orchomene

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I think a game over based on a preceeding choice is not a good design choice.

I'd better see some endings that are allowed only if the correct choices are made. Not 'better' endings, different endings. There is no reason to have an objective classification of how great the endings are.

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Krisko1974

Krisko1974

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Posted

generic.hybridity makes a good point. I already liked this part in ME2 - haven't fully upgraded your ship or sent the wrong NPC to do a job? Bad luck, half of your crew dies. Being able to save them all gives you a real nice warm feeling. I'd love to see this in another game.

 

But please: No plot-stopper, no matter how stupid you may act.

 

So, my choice is: "hard".

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The Sharmat

The Sharmat

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I'm all fine for choices leading to suboptimal conclusions, negative consequences for the player, deaths of favored companion characters, changes to sub plots and game endings, etc...

 

But in terms of making a choice that actually locks you out of any end game scenario entirely and ends without a conclusive story arc? No thanks.

 

That said, in specific areas I have liked the few games that have had one or more alternate "game over" scenarios, wherein "MISSION FAILURE" or the like doesn't simply appear on screen and force you to reload. Something like the alternate end to Mass Effect 2, or the famous "But the future refused to change." ending of Chrono Trigger. But presumably that would only occur in the end game.

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aluminiumtrioxid

aluminiumtrioxid

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I'm all fine for choices leading to suboptimal conclusions, negative consequences for the player, deaths of favored companion characters, changes to sub plots and game endings, etc...

 

But in terms of making a choice that actually locks you out of any end game scenario entirely and ends without a conclusive story arc? No thanks.

 

 

PS:T did that, too. Just sayin'...

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Theobeau

Theobeau

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Hard and yes to the idea of multiple endings and pathways that require certain choices to unlock.

 

Natch also increases replayability.

- Project Eternity, Wasteland 2 and Torment: Tides of Numenera; quality cRPGs are back !

 
 

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septembervirgin

septembervirgin

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I prefer Infocom to Sierra but Sierra is pretty cool. I noticed their influence on the mansion belonging to Hawke in DA2. "The eyes seem to follow you..." was from at least one Sierra game.

 

I think "plot forgiveness" is not so much the issue as plot flexibility. In old school games, they really didn't have enough memory room to accommodate many choices and solutions. Now all the designers need is patience and wit.

 

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general_azure

general_azure

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If you want to harshly punish players for foolish actions, either do it immediately or make the game still beatable with a modified ending imho. I don't mind being vaporized for taunting the robed stranger, but finding out hours later that you can no longer finish the game because the guy was important is just annoying and leads to more people using walkthroughs.

 

So no for delayed game over (realms of arkania, wing commander), yes for poorer endings (fallout, mass effect) or instant obliteration (the necromancer in torment). Wonder where that places me in the poll =P

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Poolp

Poolp

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I voted hard but I still think if you get a game over or if you're stuck because of some choices and no way to fix the situation: the game has a serious design flaw.

At most "wrong" choices should have consequences and make things getting very complicated or next to impossible, but still we should have a narrow chance to get back on track.

Edited by Poolp
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exodiark

exodiark

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If you want to harshly punish players for foolish actions, either do it immediately or make the game still beatable with a modified ending imho. I don't mind being vaporized for taunting the robed stranger, but finding out hours later that you can no longer finish the game because the guy was important is just annoying and leads to more people using walkthroughs.

 

So no for delayed game over (realms of arkania, wing commander), yes for poorer endings (fallout, mass effect) or instant obliteration (the necromancer in torment). Wonder where that places me in the poll =P

 

I guess hard or very hard :D

Old school and Sierra are pretty much significantly-delayed game overs.

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