Do you want firearms in Project Eternity?

[Continuum]

I'm not saying yes or no because it really depends on the gameworld. I don't think guns are automatically a bad thing.

 

But there has to be some reason they're balanced. You really can't have anything beyond primitive muzzle loaders in the same setting with medieval weapons and armor. The only advantage bows/crossbows have over guns is they are quieter if we are talking any sort of cartridge loading fire-arm.

 

So unless there are some steampunk leanings, I'd tend towards no guns.

[Jorian Drake]

Anyway, two months after this poll comes up (lol), and I've changed my opinion. I now think it's gonna be neat having a projectile attack option that isn't from a bow/crossbow/slings, or spells. I also wish for the ability to craft/improve firearms as well.

I want more javelins in games, dammit.

 

spears, capes, and mounts

 

oh, and diving, climbing, swimming (although these don't really work with a top-down camera and a full controlled party)

[Juneau]

I didn't see this thread first time around but now that I have;

 

 

Below is a thread on magic & muskets and a thread I made with an idea for a firearms sub class (rogue/ranger).

 

I see no reason why pistols can't be included in the game, there not the modern day accurate people killers - there probably less accurate and reliable compared to that of a bow but they are very much fire and forget, point blank / very short range lethal devices with a long time to reload.

 

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/62052-of-magic-and-muskets/

 

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/62067-pistols-pirates-multiple-black-powder-pistol-build/

[dropko]

I wouldn't mind firearms in the game.

When I knew of Fable 3's setting I thought I would hate it, but in the end it was nicely implemented. There were long range precision rifles and more generic short range disperse shot handguns. Neither was overpowered and it felt right according to the period. I didn't like it that much, because of play style rather than implementation, so normally it was me with a sword in the middle of a crossfire (cool!).

That said, if the setting is clearly medieval-looking, it won't "feel right". Unless they are not gunpowder-style and, as said before, not abundant and associated with a specific race or specialization (preferably, one that can't specialize in Magic to still have projectile ability of some sorts).

[Jojobobo]

I say yes, play Medieval 2: Total War if you want to see how much fun guns can be in a medieval setting. They were a part of the late medieval period, so if that's when the game is set (approximately) then why not?

[kabaliero]

i almost forgot to put this here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9wJUD0bw8s

[Diagoras]

The devs have made it clear that the firearms in the game will be modeled on the guns that actually existed in that period, the same way that the bows are modeled on the ones that existed in that period, swords are, etc.

 

So where I'm getting at is that early guns ware not accurate

 

Depends on what you mean. The rounds were less affected by wind, and could track a moving target much easier than a bowman could. It also depends on what you compare it too: obviously longbows were famous for being both long ranged and accurate, but I wouldn't be surprised if a rifled musket wielded by a skilled gunman couldn't give them a run for their money when it came to lethal killing distance, specifically against armored targets.

 

Muskets:

 

in real battle situations:

-hitting a target about 100meters away: 2% chance

-hitting a target 30 meters away: 20-30%

 

well that is also because soldiers rarely recieved real training with firearms... theoretical accuracy with muskets and early pistols is shockingly high, but the human body can't hold it steady... not to mention the recoil... gunpowder was also very dangerous and there was always a possibility that your gun would blow into your face

 

google is my friend :D http://sellsword.wor...../09/firearms/

 

That's an excellent source you linked, but it sort of makes my point for me:

 

Exceptional snipers were known in every army – even in 16th century they were often sent forward to skirmish with the enemy. These units of “lost children” (French enfants perdu, German verlorene Haufen, Dutch verloren hoop, English forlorn hope) could fire at will from great distances and with great effectiveness. In sieges such sharpshooters found even more glory, taking enemy soldiers and commanders from unbelievable lengths. Arquebuses in their hands performed not worse than modern smoothbore hunting guns.

 

The issue wasn't with the design of firearms themselves, it was with the quality of the shooters and, to some extent, the individual quality of the weapon, shot, and powder. But a legendary gun in the hands of a legendary marksman would be capable of legendary feats - and that's the sort of scale we're interested in with an adventuring party. Most PCs wielding muskets or arquebuses would be closer to 16th century sharpshooters than conscripted Spanish soldiers.

 

So the figures you have, while okay for badly-trained soldiers with inferior, cheap weapons under combat conditions, aren't what we'd look at for modeling a skilled adventurer with a rifled wheellock with a tremendously strong barrel, and thus firing at full charge (with high quality gunpowder).

 

As I noted in the "Magic and Muskets" thread, the range of combat performance for gunners in our world was arguably way larger than with many other weapons, especially if you only consider the equipment side of things. Just the ability to fire your weapon at full (or one-and-a-half, or twice) charge would change your accuracy, range, armor penetration, etc. a whole lot.

[Failion]

I want guns but not where they steam punk over the top firing blue lights and crap.

[VixRaine]

I find it interesting that phrases like 'Standard Fantasy Setting' and 'Pure Fantasy' and 'Real Fantasy' can be uttered without substantial irony.

[mcmanusaur]

I like what ^he said, but I don't see much room for firearms with the way they've divided the classes.

[Diagoras]

I like what ^he said, but I don't see much room for firearms with the way they've divided the classes.

 

The classes explicitly have no major equipment restrictions, ie. heavy armor wizards are in.

 

But even if there were...so what? Fighters, rogues, paladins, rangers all have obvious firearm uses.

[Karranthain]

While we certainly won't see this level of detail in the game, here's a little work of art I thought I'd share :

 

[Diagoras]

Now that's a beauty, even though I've always had a place in my heart for the more outlandish, early models. See below:

 

[Agelastos]

While gun-combo weapons such as the above pictured side-sword/rapier doesn't seem to have appeared until the mid-16th century, and were more curiosities than weapons you'd see on the battle fields, I would personally love it if there was at least one of these available in the game as a unique weapon (it could even be locked to a specific character).

Edited November 22, 2012 by Agelastos

[Karranthain]

Wheel locks were usually quite pretty :

 

 

I'd imagine those would be quite handy if you wanted to pistol whip someone as well

[Diagoras]

Speaking of combo weapons...

 

 

 

[Agelastos]

Most of them are obviously not designed for precision marksmanship, but by Odin's empty eye-socket, are they pretty to look at!

[Diagoras]

The throwing axe/pistol on the far right is my favorite.

[Valorian]

 

This really depends on the type of firearm they plan to have. If we are talking magazine fed or breach loaded bolt action rifles or better then I would say no as they would be hopelessly overpowering if they were at all realistic. But if they were based on muzzle loaded muskets or rifles and had their fire rates and power then I wouldn't mind.

They are the sort of firearms found in 16th century Europe: uncommon and nothing more advanced than single-shot wheellocks.

 

E: As a side-note, firearms of this sort were part of the Forgotten Realms following the Time of Troubles (smokepowder was introduced by Gond).

 

 

In a new interview (thx browser translator) with Josh:

"As for the level of technological progress, I would say that it corresponds to XVI century Europe, so small arms and large ships for long voyages are a common occurrence in Project Eternity. The only exception is printing, so books are not available in huge numbers, and are written by hand."

 

Oh well... things change.

 

[Messier-31]

I'm in favor - it's not modern warfare, but newly invented prototype-ish weaponry. Seen it in fantasy a dozen of times, nothing to worry about.

[Carados]

I could imagine that a slow firing, but powerfull musket would certainly freshen up the classic fantasy formula and bring an extra dimension into combat. I like the idea of musket breaking mage's magical protection shield for example. Better wear some metal underneath the robe wizzards!

 

As long as those firearms are rare, expensive and difficult to master.

[J.E. Sawyer]

In a new interview (thx browser translator) with Josh:

"As for the level of technological progress, I would say that it corresponds to XVI century Europe, so small arms and large ships for long voyages are a common occurrence in Project Eternity. The only exception is printing, so books are not available in huge numbers, and are written by hand."

 

Oh well... things change.

 

Ships more than firearms.  Our ranged combatants so far are still dominantly archers.  I can only think of a few characters who are using guns.

[Lephys]

Our ranged combatants so far are still dominantly archers.  I can only think of a few characters who are using guns.

And I bet the majority of the bow-wielding populous laughs in a perplexed manner at anyone running amok with a gun. "You'd rather trust a hand-held explosion to propel a piece of shrapnel into your target from a distance than you would the strength and steadiness of your own arm and bow? HAH!"

 

I imagine a lot of piratey-type fighting (even if the piratey-type fighting I'm referencing is mostly Hollywood stuff and not historically accurate), in which you you'd take advantage of an opening and basically draw your pistol and fire it at point-blank range (or very short range) to make accuracy not such an issue. More of a charged-up punch with a bit of range than something you'd just run about firing at people with, or sniping with from atop a wall/tower/tree.

 

Which, honestly, for video games, is a pretty interesting role for guns.

[Valorian]

 

In a new interview (thx browser translator) with Josh:

"As for the level of technological progress, I would say that it corresponds to XVI century Europe, so small arms and large ships for long voyages are a common occurrence in Project Eternity. The only exception is printing, so books are not available in huge numbers, and are written by hand."

 

Oh well... things change.

 

Ships more than firearms.  Our ranged combatants so far are still dominantly archers.  I can only think of a few characters who are using guns.

 

 

Very good.

[Woldan]

I'd be kind of cool if those early firearms wouldn't work under rainy or humid weather conditions, weather has always played a role in warfare, and it would be a nice addition to the complexity of firearms in combat.

And now a pic of a cool wheel lock long gun. I love wheel lock rifles/muskets, they look so alien and badass. 

 

 

Edited October 31, 2013 by Woldan