Armour and weapon designs - a plea.

[JWestfall]

I agree with the OP - I get why some genres/players prefer the over sized, in-your-face cosmetics, but I tend to find it's gotten a bit rediculous of late.

 

There should be exceptions of course - this would make the rare, exceptional and exceptionally stylized artifact more... exceptional.

[catmorbid]

Yes please. I wouldn't mind even a historically very accurate arsenal and armour, with perhaps some tasteful fantasy flavour such as with materials. Also, can we have magical items that DO NOT have a huge halo around them - if we're to have any.

 

Why? Historically accurate where? On Earth? You forget this is a fantasy universe having nothing to do with our own.

 

Do I really have to explain what I meant?

 

 

 

 

 

I didn't think so.

[Delterius]

Yes please. I wouldn't mind even a historically very accurate arsenal and armour, with perhaps some tasteful fantasy flavour such as with materials. Also, can we have magical items that DO NOT have a huge halo around them - if we're to have any.

 

Why? Historically accurate where? On Earth? You forget this is a fantasy universe having nothing to do with our own.

 

Not everything is fantastical in a fantasy setting.

[Thelionheart]

The Witcher 2 did an absolutely astoundingly good job on this front. All of Geralt's swords and armor looked pleasing and practical. Every character in the game had appropriate clothing for what their jobs were while also not seeming drab and boring to look at. More of that stuff please.

[lord of flies]

Indeed, I'm not advocating absolute realism - for an instance, Lord of the Rings movies do this right most of the time I feel. But it still retained that fantasy feel.

Oh yeah, like the bit where cavalry charged disciplined pikes... and won?

Why? Historically accurate where? On Earth? You forget this is a fantasy universe having nothing to do with our own.

Ah, yes, that's why there are no humans. And all the laws of physics are different. And organs are in different places. And and and...

[HangedMan]

Indeed, I'm not advocating absolute realism - for an instance, Lord of the Rings movies do this right most of the time I feel. But it still retained that fantasy feel.

Oh yeah, like the bit where cavalry charged disciplined pikes... and won?

Why? Historically accurate where? On Earth? You forget this is a fantasy universe having nothing to do with our own.

Ah, yes, that's why there are no humans. And all the laws of physics are different. And organs are in different places. And and and...

And why in PE's world, their actually IS such a thing as a free lunch!

 

But seriously, on topic, I am for more realistic armor designs. Having said that, though, I wouldn't mind if their were one or two joke-ish items, like an enchanted mythril bikini of deflection/distraction. Or a ridiculous gate-smashing mace that's been enchanted to only weigh 1/10th of its actual weight.

 

Or at least some plausible-armor that also has amazingly fabulous and garish colors. Not all of it, not even most of it, just one or two examples apiece floating around out there. Their is even an opportunity for snarky-funny commentary in the item description.

[Hellfane]

I hate "historically accurate" armor and weapons in a fantasy setting. Not because I don't think such things should function like their real world counterparts (they should, honestly) but because this isn't the real world. This is not England or Scotland, or Sweden. These are not the Normans, Vikings, Saxons, Celtics, or Gauls. These are people on a different world with different ideas, different cultures, and different martial philosophies. The armor and weapons should reflect that. I'm not saying spiked bikinis (those are kind of silly, honestly), but what I AM saying is that the designs should be functional while reflecting an alien culture. If that means near naked berserkers, go for it. If it means full suits of heavy armor with pauldrons and big tower shields, go for it. But whatever the design it should fit the culture, the resources available, and the martial philosophies of the fighters.

 

On the other side of the coin, I think the armor and weapons should FUNCTION like their real world counterparts as I mentioned above. Meaning that chain mail should not be "less restrictive" then full plate armor, but the other way around. This means that stabbing attacks should rip chain mail like paper. this means the rogue weidling thumbtacks should not be doing more damage then the 300 pound orc smashing things with a giant axe. And frankly what I'd really love to see if different weapons having different effects on different armor types, so the tactics isn't so much "get the fighter over there to tank the dude while the mage readies his fireball," but the fighter is figuring out what kind of weapon he needs to use for the given situation for maximum effect.

[Umberlin]

In a way I agree but your 'this' and 'this that look better than 'this' and 'this' look like things I've seen in RPGs over and over and over ad Infinitum, ad Nauseum. I do respect the general sentiment though. I just don't feel like the Sword and Armor we've seen countless times over is the answer anymore. That said, again, I 100% respect what you're trying to say, and I agree that we see the over the top weapons and skimpy plate armor far too much.

[nikolokolus]

Mark me down for as much realism as possible. I loathe anime style weapons and armor in games ... but I'm also an old grumpy bastard, so what do I know?

[Moonlight Butterfly]

I don't know how detailed weapons are going to be because of the retro graphics BUT I agree with the OP. Dark Souls does this and there is something refreshing about that. This is my female character early on in Dark Souls she is wearing Chainmail and on the right an outfit that the game counts as magical cloth.

 

 

I really like Dark Souls aesthetic. But that's just my opinion.

[Hellfane]

Love me some Dark Souls.

[Umberlin]

I just am not sure yet more medieval, germanic and roman inspired weapons armor are the way to go when we see that so often. I'd like to see something inspired by other cultures for once, more obscure cultures, without so much reliance on the usual sword wielding but in plate armor image that almost every single RPG goes with with only the very rare exception. No, I don't mean, "make it anime styled" when I say that. There are plenty of very real ancient cultures with design aesthetics to pull from that are both realistic and visually interesting.

[Audiocide]

I just don't feel like the Sword and Armor we've seen countless times over is the answer anymore.

 

The reason that we've seen that sword so many times is that there's only so many ways to make a sword.

 

The xXxtreme designs are nice, but would snap at the weakest point the first time you use it.

 

I don't know how detailed weapons are going to be because of the retro graphics BUT I agree with the OP. Dark Souls does this and there is something refreshing about that. This is my female character early on in Dark Souls she is wearing Chainmail and on the right an outfit that the game counts as magical cloth.

 

 

I really like Dark Souls aesthetic. But that's just my opinion.

 

That sword is way too large to swing with one hand.

[J.E. Sawyer]

I think Dark Souls handles it in a neat way. Most of those swords are too heavy to swing effectively with one hand unless you have an extremely high strength. When you swing those swords one-handed you do it very slowly and awkwardly until you hit the strength requirement.

[Audiocide]

I think Dark Souls handles it in a neat way. Most of those swords are too heavy to swing effectively with one hand unless you have an extremely high strength. When you swing those swords one-handed you do it very slowly and awkwardly until you hit the strength requirement.

 

That makes a lot more sense, then. In some recent games, that is pretty much the size of a standard longsword.

Edited September 17, 2012 by Audiocide

[Moonlight Butterfly]

I think Dark Souls handles it in a neat way. Most of those swords are too heavy to swing effectively with one hand unless you have an extremely high strength. When you swing those swords one-handed you do it very slowly and awkwardly until you hit the strength requirement.

 

That makes a lot more sense, then. In some recent games, that is pretty much the size of a standard longsword.

 

Also my character is a cleric and the sword she is using is 'divine' which mean it works from her strength and faith modifiers (That you have to put souls into). She can hit very hard with it because of her faith. It fits to the lore of the game.

[Pop]

On the other side of the coin, I think the armor and weapons should FUNCTION like their real world counterparts as I mentioned above. Meaning that chain mail should not be "less restrictive" then full plate armor, but the other way around. This means that stabbing attacks should rip chain mail like paper. this means the rogue weidling thumbtacks should not be doing more damage then the 300 pound orc smashing things with a giant axe. And frankly what I'd really love to see if different weapons having different effects on different armor types, so the tactics isn't so much "get the fighter over there to tank the dude while the mage readies his fireball," but the fighter is figuring out what kind of weapon he needs to use for the given situation for maximum effect.

I'm sort of curious to know how the team is planning weapon balance, to the extent that they'll try to achieve it. An armor / damage type rock-paper-scissors sort of system is a good a plan as any but it can get impenetrable (good thing the system didn't seem to matter in the BG games, otherwise they'd be incomprehensible). Even though I found The Witcher's combat to be pretty dull, the fact that they had only two weapon types and everything generally corresponded to one or the other made it out to be a good, simple system.

 

Josh's system modifications in FO:NV bode well for this game, I think. They showed a cognizance of remarkably common armor / weapon system flaws, particularly the habit for games to have linear scales of quality and utility (ex. why would you use a dagger when you could use a short sword? Why use a short sword when you could use an axe?). At its core I think RPG system design should push a broad amount of viable player choices, without an obvious "best" choice.

[Kraidy117]

I want cloaks. Cloaks are a must.

[Audiocide]

(ex. why would you use a dagger when you could use a short sword? Why use a short sword when you could use an axe?). At its core I think RPG system design should push a broad amount of viable player choices, without an obvious "best" choice.

 

I agree, but I think that should be done within reason. For instance it would be much more difficult to execute a backstab with anything larger than a dagger-sized weapon, so daggers could be given a much greater backstab multiplier. Or a greatsword would hinder mobility and accuracy, so it would have a lower chance of a successful hit against an agile enemy.

 

But a dagger is not realistically going to lop someone's limbs off. So making weapons too equal might be too much.

[Moonlight Butterfly]

I agree with audiocide and pop. I like the idea of, say, daggers being useful as ambush weapons while a melee character who wants to go into full combat will favour a sword.

 

I have to admit I'm a fan of different enemies being more vulnerable to certain weapons too. Smash skeletons with maces, don't use swords vs slimes ( xD) and ghosts need to be hit with magic or silver.

 

By the same rationale hit a fire based enemy with a water or frost spell and it will hurt a lot.

Edited September 17, 2012 by Moonlight Butterfly

[Umberlin]

On the other side of the coin, I think the armor and weapons should FUNCTION like their real world counterparts as I mentioned above. Meaning that chain mail should not be "less restrictive" then full plate armor, but the other way around. This means that stabbing attacks should rip chain mail like paper. this means the rogue weidling thumbtacks should not be doing more damage then the 300 pound orc smashing things with a giant axe. And frankly what I'd really love to see if different weapons having different effects on different armor types, so the tactics isn't so much "get the fighter over there to tank the dude while the mage readies his fireball," but the fighter is figuring out what kind of weapon he needs to use for the given situation for maximum effect.

 

Better question, why have the tradition weapons like sword/dagger/etc and the traditional armors like chain/plate in the usual style at all, and not use weaponry and armor inspired by other sources that we hardly ever get to play with? Sure have weapons and armor, but why the usual ones at this point? We have tons of ancient cultures with all sorts of weapons and armor that may not seem practical against plate or chain armor, but . . . what if there were no plate or chain armor yet in a setting's history? What if armor was much different than we're used to in fantasy RPGs, and weapons for that matter.

 

Functional is one thing but . . . what is functional? It's easy to say, "That armor wouldn't actually protect" when looking at some types of armor, but, they were worn and their people's saw success in combat. You go back far enough and some people went to battle in just plain nothing, and the later more conservative cultures went in to battle in a loincloth to prevent what I like to call the Mr. Floppy effect.

 

I'm just curious if the big guy covered head to toe in plate is really necessary in a fantasy RPG when one of the most famous male fantasy characters, Conan, in some of his most iconic imagery, isn't wearing any such thing. I just got done reading the Black Stranger and it really made me think for a few seconds about just what an RPG character would wear into combat if the setting didn't have the usual Long Sword, Plate, Bow, Chain sort of gear.

[The Sharmat]

I would kill for a khopesh. And with a khopesh.

 

I get the "historically accurate" requests though. Yeah, it's not a real history. But most real world weapons and armor were shaped the way they were for a reason. Doesn't mean we can't have variety.

 

I'm also guessing in those Dark Souls screenshots that the sword is so huge simply to make it easier to pick out for the player. Graphics have to be easy to read, not just realistic or pretty.

[Audiocide]

Better question, why have the tradition weapons like sword/dagger/etc and the traditional armors like chain/plate in the usual style at all, and not use weaponry and armor inspired by other sources that we hardly ever get to play with? Sure have weapons and armor, but why the usual ones at this point? We have tons of ancient cultures with all sorts of weapons and armor that may not seem practical against plate or chain armor, but . . . what if there were no plate or chain armor yet in a setting's history? What if armor was much different than we're used to in fantasy RPGs, and weapons for that matter.

 

Functional is one thing but . . . what is functional? It's easy to say, "That armor wouldn't actually protect" when looking at some types of armor, but, they were worn and their people's saw success in combat. You go back far enough and some people went to battle in just plain nothing, and the later more conservative cultures went in to battle in a loincloth to prevent what I like to call the Mr. Floppy effect.

 

I'm just curious if the big guy covered head to toe in plate is really necessary in a fantasy RPG when one of the most famous male fantasy characters, Conan, in some of his most iconic imagery, isn't wearing any such thing. I just got done reading the Black Stranger and it really made me think for a few seconds about just what an RPG character would wear into combat if the setting didn't have the usual Long Sword, Plate, Bow, Chain sort of gear.

 

I'm all for exotic swords and armor. Japanese, Chinese, and Middle Eastern swords come to mind.

 

And a barbarian might as well rush into combat with a couple of animal hides stitched together, foregoing protection in favor of mobility.

 

But Conan is a little much. As much as I've loved the movies when I was a kid, I don't think it prudent to go into a swordfight in your underwear.

 

I could go with a class or kit that is specially trained to fight very effectively with no armor, but would still suffer heavy penalties.

Edited September 17, 2012 by Audiocide

[NateOwns]

I just want hardcore weapon and armor crafting options

[Umberlin]

I'm all for exotic swords and armor. Japanese, Chinese, and Middle Eastern swords come to mind.

 

The Japanese swords like the Katana, and such, aren't really what I meant because you do see those far too often as well. Think about things you don't see, are Japanese weapons something you actually rarely saw? I definitely meant ancient cultures like the ancient Sumerian and further back, or the the ancient South Americans. The Ancient middle east is a good one though, and I'm glad you brought that up. They had some outright lovely looking stuff.

 

And a barbarian might as well rush into combat with a couple of animal hides stitched together, foregoing protection in favor of mobility.

 

True enough.

 

But Conan is a little much. As much as I've loved the movies when I was a kid, I don't think it prudent to go into a swordfight in your underwear.

 

Well in actual history you had times that it was, and thousands of years of time in which the more traditional armors you see in Fantasy RPGs simply did not exist (obviously some never existed period if we're talking about the truly out there armor/weapon concepts ). And yet people still fought. In different armors, with different weapons, of course, but fight none the less they did. Which is more what I'm getting at than, "I want all the men to be muscled, gleaming with sweat and in their underwear! NOW!" . . . heh.