Should gold have weight?

[Vampero]

I feel gold should not have weight for sure !

[Volourn]

"there is just no rational need to include something like weight for gold. It does not add any actual challenge or help engage the player."

 

Totally diagree.

[Sabin Stargem]

Unless there is a point to inventory management that actively determines the failiure or success of your character, then the game should just give a infinite and well-sorted bag of holding. As far as I know, the only kind of games that do well with inventory management are the roguelikes - at least then there is meaning to what you do and do not take with you. In games like Fallout 2, Fallout 3, Baldur's Gate II, and pretty much any other WRPG, I would repeatedly leave the action head back to my player house to drop off my loot for later sorting, selling, and archiving.

 

This is busy work, so the game must either fully embrace the ramifications of inventory management on game design, or just go Pokemon style.

[Adhin]

Dislaimer - I have not read anyones reply as of writing this... not that it would chang my opinion.

 

So I think it shouldn't, realistic or not you would have a lot of other means outside of what a cRPG would allow to move gold. In PnP that kind of stuff is handwaved, you used a cart to get it places (maybe including an ambush on the way to a town or hideout or whatever). A lot of that can just be skipped over in the understanding 'real-like-stuff happened to make this happen'. In a cRPG you just don't have that luxury, though you could ultimately get some kind of 'ferry it all to the bank' button like you have a 'rest' button in some RPGs.

 

Generally speaking I tend to view my characters gold count a metaphorical bank, that being, I figure majority of that is 'in' a bank or holding spot somewhere and if i buy something extremely expensive '**** happened' to get them all that crazy coinage. I think it's also nice when they simply don't just use gold. Ultimately Gold, Silver, Copper is the same general number resource as pure gold but it adds a bit of immersion when its split up into 3-4 things like that (4th being platinum coins).

 

Now, if your looking for a more immersive way to handle all that excess of gold here's an idea I literally just had writing this. Instead of having a bank you put money into, have a bank you 'invest' in and say, pay to increase general 'size'. Kind like increasing gem wallet size in say a Zelda game. But they could tie this into other things such as the player housing. a Vault as an addition (or any perm-storage device) could increase some arbitary max-limit on coins carried at any given time. They could also just make you put gold into all these sources and just have it all 'counted' when you hit up a shop as well.

 

ultimately though I think that kind of limiting thing should be kept to one of there more hardcore mode type toggles (like eating/drinking in FO:NV). But yeah, weights a bad idea, both from a gameplay perspective and from a general believability POV. Second you add weight is the second you scream 'im carrying thousands of coins on me'. Keep in mind, on top of that, currency doesn't come in 1 size. One of those gold coins could be a 1k print, worth 1000 coins. One reason gold/silver/copper is nice for the sake of flavor and immersion.

Edited September 28, 2012 by Adhin

[Pixelperfekt]

I think it´s stupid that gold should have weight but that´s just me. Make it an option for those who want it. And that´s exactly what they plan to do with the different "modes" if i´m not mistaken?

[Pope]

Make it an option for those who want it. And that´s exactly what they plan to do with the different "modes" if i´m not mistaken?

This.

[Tlantl]

I'm of a mixed mind on this one.

 

I like to think things would be more realistic if gold, which actually weighs a lot, actually weighed something in game. Making things cost more gold than you could possibly carry could be interesting.

 

On the other hand I just can't get behind the idea in practice. I'd become frustrated having to convert my coins into lighter forms of currency such as gems the way we do in our PnP games. There's nothing like travelling with a mule so that you have enough carrying capacity to deal with large piles of coins or other goods. Thank the gods for extra dimensional spaces.

[Hypevosa]

Everyone who is voting no. Seems to be under the impression this game would use an unfun manner of weighted gold that PAST games have used.

Expand your minds a little. Jeez.

Unless they go over-board and include flying invisible donkeys that carry your gold for you I am not sure how exactly they are supposed to make gold with weight 'fun'.

 

Unless gold is worthless and insanely heavy, why wouldn't having a genuine system of currency be a little more interesting? Why not carry that emerald worth 200 gold since it weighs less and just sell it when you're bartering for that +2 longsword... ya know?

hum....I can see the worth in that in expert mode but then I would go back to the point about means of transport. Why would you as a daring, smart adventurer go to a dungeon without the means to transport the goods? If they do add means of transport though then you would still have the smart decision making included only here it would involve managing the hiring of a donkey, keeping it alive (maybe, sounds like a pain in the arse tbh but that's what the expert mode is for) and whatever else the devs can think of.

 

I as a brave and strong adventurer, would assume that me and my companions could carry the loot between all of our combined strengths - the only time that being not true, would be going after an old dragon who had a massive hoard... Mages with Tensor's floating disks (http://www.d20srd.or...loatingDisk.htm) also make transport nice and easy if we found more than we could take by ourselves, and having a bag of holding or a portable hole also makes life easier. Assuming access to none of those things, we could take a carriage to the site, kill the dragon, load the carriage, and then have to defend it from bandits on the way back to town. ;D Honestly, if we are killing a dragon we should have access to that kind of equipment by that point...

I am all for floating discs/whatever. That aside, I would quibble that unless the dungeon is teeny or devoid of any of the standard loot like armour/weapons/artifacts then there's no way your group of strong and brave adventurers would ever be able to haul ALL the loot without multiple trips. Armour especially weighs a lot, not so much when distributed all around your body but that's not happening if you're lugging it back to town in a sack and this multiple trips business I really don't want to see.

 

6 people? again, unless it's a dragon's hoard, there shouldn't be THAT much gold. Sure, if everyone killed is wearing full plate armor, that's enough weight it would be very problematic, but that's all that should be a problem. Weapons generally weigh little, scrolls, gems, potions and coins weigh generally nothing... push comes to shove we just drop everything in one room, lock it, then come back for it later so that everyone can have their full mobility. In D&D 50 pieces of currency weighs a pound... so assuming average strength for all characters, and assuming they stay light load going in, we could leave a dungeon with 67*50*6 20,100 gp. Full plate armor weighs 50 lbs, but could be sold for 750gp. If we have it so equipment is at least somewhat worth its weight, and we don't randomly shower the game with super heavy armor, it shouldn't be a problem even if gold has weight.

 

Basically, not every tom **** and harry should be wearing full plate armor, or even half plate for that matter.

Edited September 28, 2012 by Hypevosa

[sollus]

I would prefer my currency not to have weight, otherwise it becomes another chore and gets in the way of gameplay. Unless your idea of great game play includes all of the rigmaroles of real life.

[draft1983]

I would prefer my currency not to have weight, otherwise it becomes another chore and gets in the way of gameplay. Unless your idea of great game play includes all of the rigmaroles of real life.

 

i'd rather my full-plate armor weighed nothing or soem dragon scales or bones weight nothing, or maybe a bastard sword has no weight, wow that would make it so much easier for me. Really i feel that people have become to used to the fact that in games gold weighs nothing and expects it in all games - but if we view things liekt hat then may as well just make this game a spoon fed rpg just like all the other today.

[Volourn]

" push comes to shove we just drop everything in one room, lock it, then come back for it later so that everyone can have their full mobility"

 

Not if someone comes by while you are gone and snatches it up.

[Hypevosa]

again, locking the door. And if someone with a tracking ability can lead us to the bandits, we just get to take all their loot as well ;D

[Ashram]

I think giving gold actual weight would add a level of micro managing of inventory that just bogs down the story progression. I would much rather spend my brain cells trying to figure out a quest, solve a riddle, develop tactics, craft weapons or a new spell than spend time worrying about how much gold weighed. Perhaps instead of gold, this place uses vibranium alloy that is super light but equally valuable..? I am kidding, but please no !

[Volourn]

They could just pick the lock (or bash it). And, tracking is not always easy.

 

In pnp this can happen quite a bit - ie. dragon hoard. Creatures in the neighbourhood will figure out the dragon is dead and decide to check out the now empty lair so not only will you lose some loot left behind you might meet more monsters (of course if said party managed to defeat the dragon the new monster likely isn't as scary heh).

[Sylvius the Mad]

I'm actually indifferent. I don't love weightless gold, but weighty gold isn't something I need.

 

I did really enjoy weighty gold is MMOGs, because it created this unexpected emergent economy of money-changers, but in a single-player game I don't see that it adds a tone of value.

 

Weighty everything else, yes. Weighty gold, I don't care.

[Starglider]

The only reason gold weight is an issue is that fantasy games grossly undervalue gold versus real history.

[Sylvius the Mad]

The only reason gold weight is an issue is that fantasy games grossly undervalue gold versus real history.

If we change the coinage to a different metal, that doesn't make the problem go away.

 

Is weighty silver somehow less important an issue?

[Blackstream]

I'm fine with gold having weight, but only as an optional expert mode/fallout new vegas hardcore style option. Not tied in to difficulty or anything.

[Ieo]

No weight. But I'd rather we do away with the typical "precious metal" bit myself.

 

I vote for cowry shells.

[ddillon]

Just do it like DA:O.

 

100 bronze/copper = 1 silver

100 silver = 1 gold/sovereign

 

Every hundred of a coin type is automatically converted to one coin of the next type. This switch is automatic for convenience; it is assumed to take place when visiting settlements via merchants, moneychangers, etc (or with Bodahn in the party camp). Coins don't have weight, but I don't recall ever having more than two hundred sovereigns at once in DA:O anyway.

[wormix]

Of course it should, and no matter the difficulty (there is a good reason for this).

 

Whatever the base currency, this will be the measuring stick for evaluating which items are worth holding onto for the purposes of selling. If the interface tells you how much an item weighs, and its estimated value, it should tell you the value per weight. (Almost) Nothing in your inventory should have an infinite value:weight ratio. If anyone ever played Fallout 3 and picked up every pencil (and bullet for that matter) you ever saw, you should know why.

 

With weightless gold, concepts like an item being worth its weight in gold become meaningless. Imagine a situation where you defeat a dragon. (or some other being that has hoarded varieties of wealth) You can only take with you what you can carry, and if you return later the remainder has been looted by others. If gold has no weight, then you are now so rich you never have to worry about picking up another item to sell again. Yet if gold does have weight, the situation is not so different from other games where you have to decide between which items to leave behind when you reach your carry limit.

 

So why is gold so special? There's no logical reason except people found it "inconvenient" to have to make a decision to do with leaving behind "precious loot". This situation also explains why weightless gold being a toggle doesn't work very well, as the game needs to be designed around gold being weightless, and making it have a weight just penalises you instead of fixing what weightless gold breaks in the first place.

 

For everyone who is complaining about having to go back and forth to pick up all the gold. You already "have" to do that with normal items. (Hint: you really don't, the first step is admitting you have a problem) What if the items were gone if you went back to town and returned? This would fix the issue entirely, but I seriously doubt many would prefer that. And for those who really want to keep everything, that's what bags of holding or equivalent were created for.

 

The other complaint I see is people assuming they'd have to go "back and forth" to gather enough gold to buy expensive items, which is just coming up with weak excuses to defend weightless gold. Nowhere has anyone stated that items would be worth more than you could carry, and indeed it would be ridiculous if you encountered items like this regularly, not to mention all items having weight is meant to be meaningful while adventuring, not shopping. That is entirely dependent upon the relative value between the currency and item pricing.

 

Which brings me to the last point. All of this allows for different types of currencies in different worlds. Some worlds or regions might have more valuable money per weight, while others would have heavier currency making gems and enchanted items more valuable to people to hold onto. Removing weight from gold (or any item encountered regularly) not only impairs design (see above) but removes a fundamental part of the world building, no matter how simple it is.

 

Having said all this, I think it's moot as JE Sawyer has said in the past he is not fond of currency having weight, so I would bet on it being weightless in this game.

[Volourn]

That's because Sawyer isn't as ahrdcore a player as people think he is. True hardcore games have weighted coins.

[Gatt9]

It would seem lots of people don't want to make "hard" decisions when it comes to inventory management. Only hard choices when it comes to dialogue and combat?

Tell me how one extra hard decision is going to ruin your experience?

 

There's alot of assumptions in there.

 

First, you're assuming this creates some hard choice. It does not. Either Armor A is better than Armor B, or vice-versa. Weapon A is better than Weapon B, or vice-versa. There's almost never a situation in a CRPG where there's any reason to have situational arms and armor, and when there is, it's usually contrived. Because most people don't want to figure out what a damage type is, and why piercing weapons are useless against stone golems, any reason to have situational equipment does not exist in a CRPG. So there's never a hard choice here.

 

Second, you're assuming that weighty gold existed for a legitimate reason. It existed because in AD&D 1st edition, gold = experience. Without weight limits, on everything including gold, the PC's would carry everything including sewing needles out of a castle just for the extra 1/100 experience point. It's a level of realism that doesn't add fun to a game unless you're extremely concerned with economic simulation.

 

Third, it doesn't preclude hard choices on what to buy. You can easily do the math on the main path through the game, and the full path through the game, and come up with a median amount of gold most Players will have. From there, you can balance prices.

 

It's like eating, drinking, bathroom breaks, etc. Is it realistic? Sure. Does it add fun to the game? Not one bit, I'd be willing to bet fewer than 1% of the people who have ever played an RPG have been excited by needing to compute the weight of gold. I'd also be willing to bet that's one of the most frequently house-ruled-out rules in RPGs, if not the most frequent.

[Krios]

Depends on the type of currency available in game. If they have a few denominations (e.g. gold bars, silver bars, gold coins, silver coins, copper coins, etc) then sure the higher denominations can have weight to discourage people from hoarding gold, while making the smaller denominations weightless or relatively weightless to facilitate ease of travel.

[Critical]

Im going to break this down....

 

Of course it should, and no matter the difficulty (there is a good reason for this).

 

Whatever the base currency, this will be the measuring stick for evaluating which items are worth holding onto for the purposes of selling. If the interface tells you how much an item weighs, and its estimated value, it should tell you the value per weight. (Almost) Nothing in your inventory should have an infinite value:weight ratio. If anyone ever played Fallout 3 and picked up every pencil (and bullet for that matter) you ever saw, you should know why.

 

Weight =/= monetary value, a 5 year old child could tell you that. monetary value of an object is based on its utility, its demand and its scarcity.

 

With weightless gold, concepts like an item being worth its weight in gold become meaningless. Imagine a situation where you defeat a dragon. (or some other being that has hoarded varieties of wealth) You can only take with you what you can carry, and if you return later the remainder has been looted by others. If gold has no weight, then you are now so rich you never have to worry about picking up another item to sell again. Yet if gold does have weight, the situation is not so different from other games where you have to decide between which items to leave behind when you reach your carry limit.

 

"Its worth its weight in gold" is a phrase, NOT A FACT! You say it when something or someone was worth (or worth more) than everything you spent to acquire it or their services. The rest of that paragraph is just... ugh.

 

So why is gold so special? There's no logical reason except people found it "inconvenient" to have to make a decision to do with leaving behind "precious loot". This situation also explains why weightless gold being a toggle doesn't work very well, as the game needs to be designed around gold being weightless, and making it have a weight just penalises you instead of fixing what weightless gold breaks in the first place.

 

"So why is gold special?" Hmmm well because its currency. Currency was invented so that you didn't have to carry your cow to market and sit there until you could find someone to trade the cow for tools. Gold was selected as currency for a few reasons the most important being: IT WAS WORTH FAR FAR FAR MORE THAN ITS WEIGHT, thus you could carry it with you with out spending extra time and energy to get the cow to market.

 

For everyone who is complaining about having to go back and forth to pick up all the gold. You already "have" to do that with normal items. (Hint: you really don't, the first step is admitting you have a problem) What if the items were gone if you went back to town and returned? This would fix the issue entirely, but I seriously doubt many would prefer that. And for those who really want to keep everything, that's what bags of holding or equivalent were created for.

 

Wait someone has a problem, because they want to go back in order to get gold which is just sitting on the ground undefended, free for the taking and is used to buy better weapons and armor to help you win the game? Yes, because making gold disappear from the game seemingly from people who ARE capable of carrying as much gold as they want, fixes everything.... (sarcasm there)

 

The other complaint I see is people assuming they'd have to go "back and forth" to gather enough gold to buy expensive items, which is just coming up with weak excuses to defend weightless gold. Nowhere has anyone stated that items would be worth more than you could carry, and indeed it would be ridiculous if you encountered items like this regularly, not to mention all items having weight is meant to be meaningful while adventuring, not shopping. That is entirely dependent upon the relative value between the currency and item pricing.

 

How is that view point weak? Because you reference an unknown quality or quantity... is your reasoning. Ummm .... NO. At this point Im done explaining.... I just cant not worth my time.

 

Which brings me to the last point. All of this allows for different types of currencies in different worlds. Some worlds or regions might have more valuable money per weight, while others would have heavier currency making gems and enchanted items more valuable to people to hold onto. Removing weight from gold (or any item encountered regularly) not only impairs design (see above) but removes a fundamental part of the world building, no matter how simple it is.

 

Ya know this is well.....what ever.

 

Having said all this, I think it's moot as JE Sawyer has said in the past he is not fond of currency having weight, so I would bet on it being weightless in this game.

 

Sorry if I half-assed the response, but well... the post seemed half-assed. In fact I probably just got trolled.

But its ok, I'm bookmarking this for future use. Promise not to use the name.

 

Edit: Ok I lied

Edited September 29, 2012 by Critical