The Kickstarter Thread

[mute688]

I agree it all sounds just fine....in theory.  I also believe OE are capable of sorting the wheat from the chaff as far as backer input goes, but how many of the smaller start up developers will be able to resist trying to pander to all the differing opinions as to what their game should be?  It's always far easier for an established developer to resist outside pressure.  I simply think that the expectation that some developers have created among the kickstarter community of being able to influence a games development has the possibility of having a negative effect later on.

[Veeno]

I agree it all sounds just fine....in theory.  I also believe OE are capable of sorting the wheat from the chaff as far as backer input goes, but how many of the smaller start up developers will be able to resist trying to pander to all the differing opinions as to what their game should be?

 

Well, that's their problem then. But with a publisher instead, neither Obsidian nor smaller start-up developers have nearly any creative freedom.

[mute688]

 

I agree it all sounds just fine....in theory.  I also believe OE are capable of sorting the wheat from the chaff as far as backer input goes, but how many of the smaller start up developers will be able to resist trying to pander to all the differing opinions as to what their game should be?

 

Well, that's their problem then. But with a publisher instead, neither Obsidian nor smaller start-up developers have nearly any creative freedom.

 

Which no one is denying.  My point was that I disagree that backer input is as beneficial as some people seem to think it is, especially to the newer, smaller teams that I would hope to see benefit the most from kickstarter.

[Veeno]

Which no one is denying.  My point was that I disagree that backer input is as beneficial as some people seem to think it is, especially to the newer, smaller teams that I would hope to see benefit the most from kickstarter.

 

Then they can just ignore it. I really don't see the problem. My entire point relied on the assumption that a developer wants to get backer input. If a developer cannot decide whether backer input is useful for them or not, then I don't think they'll make good game design decisions themselves anyway.

[mute688]

Okay, we'll have to agree to disagree then.    I don't see the correlation between wanting kickstarter funding and wanting backer input. A developer wanting kickstarter funding simply indicates they want funding without publisher constraints.  I think the raised expectations of input being not only listened to, but being incorporated into the game design, is going to backfire for the next round of kickstarter projects the follow after this first gen of projects are released.

 

Even with publisher funded games, their forums are littered with fans who feel their input must be valuable to a development studio and turn hostile when a game is released that they don't like or don't agree with the direction taken.  Raise that hostility to the nth degree when the developers have implied that the backers will have developmental influence.  I'm not saying it will happen, but I can see this as having the potential to raise fan rage to a new level which would have a bad outcome on new kickstarter funding.

[Tigranes]

The point is that when you can rely on the profits of your past games (through complete IP ownership) to develop your new games, you don't need to worry about your next KS failing to raise enough money (= you need to fire people), and you don't need to worry about making your pitch Kickstarter-friendly (which can be a positive, but I argue it's not positive if you need to do it for every single game), so on and so forth. A developer which breaks out of the publisher cycle through Kickstarter then combines a self-sustaining, profit-driven production cycle with occasional Kickstarters is much preferable to one where you're hand-to-mouth to your backers every time.

[Veeno]

The point is that when you can rely on the profits of your past games (through complete IP ownership) to develop your new games, you don't need to worry about your next KS failing to raise enough money (= you need to fire people)

 

How does "KS failing to raise enough money" equate "you need to fire people"? Just put up a new, better planned and executed, Kickstarter campaign.

 

Unlike "KS failing to raise enough money", "you making a sucky game and failing to get enough money from its sales" is what actually does equate "you need to fire people".

 

Instead of spending your funds on making a video game and finding out that it sucks from it selling poorly, isn't it better to pass that "suckiness check" via a Kickstarter campaign, before you've started seriously investing into it?

[alanschu]

 

To those interested, you can donwload the Steel Panthers World at War from here (the first post).

 

I'll say, I have never had more fun with a WW2 startegy game.

 

E - gave the link....

 

For those who like grand strategy, I can also recommend "War in Russia" (also available from Matrix Games download page for free somewhere). It's been a favourite Gary Grigsby game of mine since dawn of time, running on my dos emulator on the Amiga. It was called "Second Front" then, but is essentially the same game.

 

Now off to study that other thread with already funded games, still available for pre-order. I might just catch up on Shadowrun yet.

 

Elaborate!  Sell this game to me Commissar Gorth!

[alanschu]

 

The point is that when you can rely on the profits of your past games (through complete IP ownership) to develop your new games, you don't need to worry about your next KS failing to raise enough money (= you need to fire people)

 

How does "KS failing to raise enough money" equate "you need to fire people"? Just put up a new, better planned and executed, Kickstarter campaign.

 

Unlike "KS failing to raise enough money", "you making a sucky game and failing to get enough money from its sales" is what actually does equate "you need to fire people".

 

Instead of spending your funds on making a video game and finding out that it sucks from it selling poorly, isn't it better to pass that "suckiness check" via a Kickstarter campaign, before you've started seriously investing into it?

 

It's not at all uncommon for games to successfully pass their "suckiness check" until sometime later in development.

 

Furthermore, if we're always going to wait for a "suckiness check" verification with Kickstarter, we're now running into the same situation with big publishers.  Innovation will be compromised because there will be an inclination to appeal to what fans are familiar with (established games that they played before that they use as reference points).

 

I wouldn't be surprised if the most common thing any fan cites as a game they want, from any developer, is a sequel.  Regardless of whether or not it's an RPG fan, FPS fan, or what have you

 

With no basis for comparison, imagine trying to kickstart a rather novel game idea like Sim City (Will Wright's original.  It's pretty much impossible to describe this game and make it sound fun).  Heck, imagine trying to Kickstart the original Torment without having Torment to fall back on!

[Gorth]

 

 

To those interested, you can donwload the Steel Panthers World at War from here (the first post).

 

I'll say, I have never had more fun with a WW2 startegy game.

 

E - gave the link....

 

For those who like grand strategy, I can also recommend "War in Russia" (also available from Matrix Games download page for free somewhere). It's been a favourite Gary Grigsby game of mine since dawn of time, running on my dos emulator on the Amiga. It was called "Second Front" then, but is essentially the same game.

 

Now off to study that other thread with already funded games, still available for pre-order. I might just catch up on Shadowrun yet.

 

Elaborate!  Sell this game to me Commissar Gorth!

 

A picture is worth a lot of words...

 

Product Page

 

Also see the free War in the Pacific under product suggestions for some of the biggest, baddest Pacific theater on a stratregic level to satisfy all your medal collecting itches...

 

as for WIR (War in Russia), it's a strategic level war game covering the period from September 1941 to August 1945, covering central Europe to the Urals. Western Front and Africa (later Italy) is only handled on an abstract level. You need to pump resources into them to prevent them from collapsing.

 

Weekly turns. You control HQ's and units on a corps/army level for logistic and operational purposes. You assign (and reassign) units on a divisional level to various corps's and armies.. You can play either German or Russion (or both). You control production and reinforcement (including who gets the new fancy Panzers and when), as well as airforces, air operations and assign commanders. Supply lines and levels are critical and entire sectors are won or lost depending on whether you can do the "cauldron" thing on your opponent. Actually, there is a lot more to it, but if you can get it to run on something like dos box (doesn't run natively on 64 bit I've discovered), it's a treat.

[AwesomeOcelot]

The questions for a backer is are a) will they deliver, b) will it work. Innovation is not good or bad, bias towards what's worked in past is only logical. I'd rather have something that works than something that's new. Broad concepts aren't the problem, selling people on city management isn't hard, actually convincing people that it can be delivered is another thing. If something is innovative and works, developers need to prove it with a prototype, release it as a demo before launching a campaign for a full game, build from small to big. Stabs in the dark aren't going to favoured in any form of funding, it's the not the best use of resources if you want plenty of good games. I think people would be willing to fund small amounts for prototyping an interesting innovative concept.

 

It's harder to sell a good book on storytelling, there's no getting around that, you have to appeal to previous works of the creator and popularity, you just have to give books a shot. Planescape: Torment would be a hard sell to crowd fund now, but actually I think there's room for that type of innovation in projects that are sold on completely different terms, just by virtue of having unknown but amazing writers.

Edited March 10, 2013 by AwesomeOcelot

[mute688]

Just spotted this on Kickstarter.  A simcity clone called Civatas.  Here's a quote from their Kickstarter page.  I lol'ed.

 

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1584821767/civitas-plan-develop-and-manage-the-city-of-your-d

 

Out of all of the possible types of games our fledgling studio could pick as our first project, why did we pick a city simulation title as our first effort? Easy, it was out of a combination of how much we loved some of the original city simulation games back in the early PC days and our displeasure with the direction the new SimCity has taken under the iron fist of EA. We don't agree with the removal of single player, the lack of terraforming, lack of modding, and above all them forcing the worst form of draconian DRM on its players known as the "Always On-line" requirement. They are seriously not going to let you play their game if you aren't online. Anyone that has ever been forced to play under that DRM knows how terrible it is. Not only can your internet access stop you from playing, if EA is having any server issues (Yeah those never happen right?) you'll get a nice fat error message instead of your game starting. Forget playing while traveling or anything. This is not a good recipe for a simulation game. EA should really just rename it SimFarmVille and get it over with.

Edited March 10, 2013 by mute688

[Bester]

 

Just spotted this on Kickstarter.  A simcity clone called Civatas.  Here's a quote from their Kickstarter page.  I lol'ed.

 

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1584821767/civitas-plan-develop-and-manage-the-city-of-your-d

 

Out of all of the possible types of games our fledgling studio could pick as our first project, why did we pick a city simulation title as our first effort? Easy, it was out of a combination of how much we loved some of the original city simulation games back in the early PC days and our displeasure with the direction the new SimCity has taken under the iron fist of EA. We don't agree with the removal of single player, the lack of terraforming, lack of modding, and above all them forcing the worst form of draconian DRM on its players known as the "Always On-line" requirement. They are seriously not going to let you play their game if you aren't online. Anyone that has ever been forced to play under that DRM knows how terrible it is. Not only can your internet access stop you from playing, if EA is having any server issues (Yeah those never happen right?) you'll get a nice fat error message instead of your game starting. Forget playing while traveling or anything. This is not a good recipe for a simulation game. EA should really just rename it SimFarmVille and get it over with.

 

No video??

[HoonDing]

Dreamfall Chapters managed to get over 1.5 million after all.

[mute688]

 

 

Just spotted this on Kickstarter.  A simcity clone called Civatas.  Here's a quote from their Kickstarter page.  I lol'ed.

 

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1584821767/civitas-plan-develop-and-manage-the-city-of-your-d

 

Out of all of the possible types of games our fledgling studio could pick as our first project, why did we pick a city simulation title as our first effort? Easy, it was out of a combination of how much we loved some of the original city simulation games back in the early PC days and our displeasure with the direction the new SimCity has taken under the iron fist of EA. We don't agree with the removal of single player, the lack of terraforming, lack of modding, and above all them forcing the worst form of draconian DRM on its players known as the "Always On-line" requirement. They are seriously not going to let you play their game if you aren't online. Anyone that has ever been forced to play under that DRM knows how terrible it is. Not only can your internet access stop you from playing, if EA is having any server issues (Yeah those never happen right?) you'll get a nice fat error message instead of your game starting. Forget playing while traveling or anything. This is not a good recipe for a simulation game. EA should really just rename it SimFarmVille and get it over with.

 

No video??

I doubt this is legitimate.  Their webiste, http://www.civitasgame.com/ , has nothing but a link to Kickstarter and their facebook page and a large countdown timer to the end of the kickstarter campaign.  I can't find any info on Brandon Smith, the supposed head of this project.  They claim to be giving any backer who donates $250 dollars or more a seat at their bi-weekly production meetings.  REALLY?!!!  what legitimate business would allow complete strangers into their production meetings?  There is no company name on their website and the closest I can find to a company name is G.A.M that is on his kickstarter profile.

 

Approach with caution.  It seems a scam set up to play on anti-EA sentiment.

[HoonDing]

Kickstarter, the last resort of everybody and their mom.

[TSBasilisk]

Civatas' entire project amounts to: Do you hate EA and want SimCity? Give us your moneyz!

[rjshae]

Kickstarter, the last resort of everybody and their mom.

 

Perhaps so. It reminds me somewhat of the Renaissance patronage system, which did have a success or two.

[ShadySands]

Shackleton Crater

 

I love me some moonbase 

[babaganoosh13]

Delver's Drop is in its final 4 hours. It is a Zelda 3 type game with randomly created dungeons.

 

As I'm typing, it is just about to reach its $150,000 stretch goal.

 

EDIT: Dang dyslexia. It was at $144,9xx; not $149,4XX. Still, 3 hours to go.

Edited March 13, 2013 by babaganoosh13

[JFSOCC]

Shackleton Crater looks pretty cool, but why does the co-founder of EA need to fundraise?

Edited March 13, 2013 by JFSOCC

[babaganoosh13]

Shackleton Crater looks pretty cool, but why does the co-founder of EA need to fundraise?

Because he said "John Madden Football with all 11 players? That will never fly!" and got out after then.

 

Or something like that.

[rjshae]

Bloom: Memories

Isometric RPG with an interesting mechanic and story.  Color me intrigued...

 

It does sound intriguing... and unique. It's nice to see a Kickstarter CRPG taking a different approach. If nothing else, the artwork is worth a perusal.

[Labadal]

Saw it on STEAM's Greenlight some time ago. Won't back, though I will keep myself updated.

[Luridis]

The point is that when you can rely on the profits of your past games (through complete IP ownership) to develop your new games, you don't need to worry about your next KS failing to raise enough money (= you need to fire people), and you don't need to worry about making your pitch Kickstarter-friendly (which can be a positive, but I argue it's not positive if you need to do it for every single game), so on and so forth. A developer which breaks out of the publisher cycle through Kickstarter then combines a self-sustaining, profit-driven production cycle with occasional Kickstarters is much preferable to one where you're hand-to-mouth to your backers every time.

 

Just like when people pay off their debts and build themselves a honey jar of considerable liquid, or secured near-liquid assets, they can break themselves out of the borrow-interest cycle. 1 emergency credit card, capped at $1k and low interest, paid off every month. A home loan and auto loan, both low interest. And, continued investment building, some of which should definitely be outside of a bank's control. (Land title, physical precious metals, etc.) A consumer economy built on borrowing was the worst idea in the history of the nation.

Edited March 14, 2013 by Luridis