Morgoth Posted July 21, 2011 Posted July 21, 2011 You have no point except 'ea is evil lolololololollipop'. How deep and profound. EA's goal is to sell 1 copy of MMO Hey Volo, how's the day going? Rain makes everything better.
Slowtrain Posted July 21, 2011 Posted July 21, 2011 One would think that they've done some research on other MMOs and set reasonable expectations for their product. that would appear to not be the current paradigm of AAA game development though. WHich is try to make more money by spending obscene amounts of money on a game and needing to sell x million copies just to break even. The obvious way to make money developing game is to develop niche titles and plan your budget accordingly and not back yourself into a corner in regard to having to sell a ridiculous number of copies. But that's not the way the AAA publishers are going about it. My guess would be that anything less than a siginifcant percentage of WoW numbers will be a failure. Notice how I can belittle your beliefs without calling you names. It's a useful skill to have particularly where you aren't allowed to call people names. It's a mistake to get too drawn in/worked up. I mean it's not life or death, it's just two guys posting their thoughts on a message board. If it were personal or face to face all the usual restraints would be in place, and we would never have reached this place in the first place. Try to remember that.
Malcador Posted July 21, 2011 Posted July 21, 2011 One would think that they've done some research on other MMOs and set reasonable expectations for their product. I'd hope so, for a time (maybe 07-08 ?) it seeemed like they didn't do that. Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra
Purkake Posted July 21, 2011 Posted July 21, 2011 One would think that they've done some research on other MMOs and set reasonable expectations for their product. that would appear to not be the current paradigm of AAA game development though. WHich is try to make more money by spending obscene amounts of money on a game and needing to sell x million copies just to break even. The obvious way to make money developing game is to develop niche titles and plan your budget accordingly and not back yourself into a corner in regard to having to sell a ridiculous number of copies. But that's not the way the AAA publishers are going about it. My guess would be that anything less than a siginifcant percentage of WoW numbers will be a failure. You can make obscene amounts of money and still not come close to WoW's numbers. When will they measure the numbers against WoW? As I said it took them years to reach the very top.
Morgoth Posted July 21, 2011 Posted July 21, 2011 I don't think EA/Bioware put 6 years dev time and a massive marketing muscle behind the game without expecting at least 2 million subscribers constantly. Either way, here's something different: Bethesda: Forced multiplayer a waste of time Fully agree. Rain makes everything better.
Purkake Posted July 21, 2011 Posted July 21, 2011 (edited) I don't think EA/Bioware put 6 years dev time and a massive marketing muscle behind the game without expecting at least 2 million subscribers constantly. Either way, here's something different: Bethesda: Forced multiplayer a waste of time Fully agree. 2mil is certainly doable if they don't screw up the after-release content/support. Bethesda has been pretty nice for a company lately. I wonder what happened. Edited July 21, 2011 by Purkake
Slowtrain Posted July 21, 2011 Posted July 21, 2011 You can make obscene amounts of money and still not come close to WoW's numbers. When will they measure the numbers against WoW? As I said it took them years to reach the very top. I agree, and yep, really it's hard to believe a company would be so dumb. So maybe not. But still... Nonetheless, I'm still thinking a SW mmorpg could be the WoW killer. Star Wars is practically a religion to some people. Notice how I can belittle your beliefs without calling you names. It's a useful skill to have particularly where you aren't allowed to call people names. It's a mistake to get too drawn in/worked up. I mean it's not life or death, it's just two guys posting their thoughts on a message board. If it were personal or face to face all the usual restraints would be in place, and we would never have reached this place in the first place. Try to remember that.
Purkake Posted July 21, 2011 Posted July 21, 2011 It's still a 90% standard MMO fare under all that voiced dialogue and light sabers. I think you'll need to radically rethink the genre conventions to kill the grandmaster.
Malcador Posted July 21, 2011 Posted July 21, 2011 (edited) Kotick Interview at Forbes Going to reinvent Guitar Hero. Kind of funny to read the title too. WoW might suffer due to burnout and people wanting to try something new (that they can get burnt out on in a couple of years, anyway). Edited July 21, 2011 by Malcador Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra
Purkake Posted July 21, 2011 Posted July 21, 2011 WoW might suffer due to burnout and people wanting to try something new (that they can get burnt out on in a couple of years, anyway). The WoW audience consists of multiple complex parts. At the very bottom you have people who just play WoW and no other games, be they MMOs or otherwise. They might quit, but they won't be picking up a new MMO. Then you have the normal players who play a little bit of this and a little bit of that, possibly multiple games at the same time, you might lure them away, but it'll take quite a bit of critical mass. At the very top, you'll have the crazy people who will flock to any new MMO, complain that it isn't WoW and go back to complaining about WoW a few months later. There's a good chance they're subscribed to a bunch of different MMOs, none of which they actually play.
Oner Posted July 21, 2011 Posted July 21, 2011 It's still a 90% standard MMO fare under all that voiced dialogue and light sabers. I think you'll need to radically rethink the genre conventions to kill the grandmaster. Quote from E3 or whatever: "You can play as a freaking jedi!" Standard mmo? **** please, it's all about rainbow swords. Giveaway list: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DgyQFpOJvyNASt8A12ipyV_iwpLXg_yltGG5mffvSwo/edit?usp=sharing What is glass but tortured sand?Never forget! '12.01.13.
Malcador Posted July 21, 2011 Posted July 21, 2011 (edited) The WoW audience consists of multiple complex parts. At the very bottom you have people who just play WoW and no other games, be they MMOs or otherwise. They might quit, but they won't be picking up a new MMO. Then you have the normal players who play a little bit of this and a little bit of that, possibly multiple games at the same time, you might lure them away, but it'll take quite a bit of critical mass. At the very top, you'll have the crazy people who will flock to any new MMO, complain that it isn't WoW and go back to complaining about WoW a few months later. There's a good chance they're subscribed to a bunch of different MMOs, none of which they actually play. Fair enough, I didn't say it would kill WoW instantly. But if it's fun to play, and is Star Wars, they could very well start sucking players from WoW, burnouts or bandwagoners or rage-quitters (people PO'd about crap, generally tend to be addicts though. MPC had an article about this, granted was kind 'meh' in its analysis on why WoW is stale and will wither over time. So it could kill WoW, just very, slowly, maybe. But then Blizzard's "next gen" MMORPG is out in a couple of years. Edited July 21, 2011 by Malcador Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra
Hurlshort Posted July 21, 2011 Posted July 21, 2011 Rift is a pretty good example of how there is space for MMO's to succeed in a world with WoW. But I am pretty concerned about the huge budget that was apparently spent on TOR.
Malcador Posted July 21, 2011 Posted July 21, 2011 Good to see Rift is still going, wasn't for me. But seemed like a decent MMOG, launch went well too. Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra
Oner Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 What were the player numbers for SW Galaxies at launch? (Before people left because of the beta-ness.) I'd say that number + The EA Marketing Multiplier can give a pretty good idea what TOR can expect at launch. Giveaway list: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DgyQFpOJvyNASt8A12ipyV_iwpLXg_yltGG5mffvSwo/edit?usp=sharing What is glass but tortured sand?Never forget! '12.01.13.
Bos_hybrid Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 What were the player numbers for SW Galaxies at launch? (Before people left because of the beta-ness.) I'd say that number + The EA Marketing Multiplier can give a pretty good idea what TOR can expect at launch. That was a long time ago wasn't it? I mean the prequels hadn't even finished doing their damage.
Gfted1 Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 I wonder whats different between SWG and TOR. If one SW MMO already crashed and burned why would this one succeed? Im sure SWG had freaking Jedi too. Ill probably take it for a spin. "I'm your biggest fan, Ill follow you until you love me, Papa"
Raithe Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 I wonder whats different between SWG and TOR. If one SW MMO already crashed and burned why would this one succeed? Im sure SWG had freaking Jedi too. Ill probably take it for a spin. Sony developed SWG. That and apparently it was really crappy unless you were dedicated. Plus it was designed from the start so you had to group from what I hear. As in, classes had fatal weaknesses that you needed another class around to balance out. Which killed a lot of solo activities. Although a lot of the dedicated fans apparently left after one update that retconned the galaxy or something... The rumours had it that part of the update was because Lucas' kid played the game and thought they needed to change stuff, so it filtered though... o O (although that might have been rabid conspiracy theorists behind that one..) And while you might say it crashed and burned, it's still actually playing. Although it's to be shut down by the end of the year. So it's had enough people playing it to keep it going.... "Cuius testiculos habeas, habeas cardia et cerebellum."
Purkake Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 (edited) @Gfted: You really don't know your history, man. Galaxies was mismanaged to hell and back. For years after launch you had to master a bunch of classes and do some really hard end-game stuff to get the opportunity to be a jedi(because it was the original series time frame). Then at some point they updated it and allowed everyone to be a jedi from the start, totally pissing off all the older players. Galaxies was doing great before they started messing with it and by that point it was getting a bit long in the tooth as well. The difference is that Galaxies was riding on Everquest's coattails, TOR is riding on WoW's. Edited July 22, 2011 by Purkake
Tale Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 SWG was very nice for its sandbox element. Which you won't see in TOR. Player economy, all equipment player made, player housing (which was player made), player cities. In the sandbox v theme park debate, it clearly sided with sandbox. Combat was broken from day one. "Show me a man who "plays fair" and I'll show you a very talented cheater."
pmp10 Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 Im sure SWG had freaking Jedi too. Actually SWG initially tried to limit access to force-sensitive characters. Although a lot of the dedicated fans apparently left after one update that retconned the galaxy or something... If you mean the NGE AFAIK it was more akin to reworking of mechanics. Somebody had the brilliant idea to appeal to younger demographic years after release. It effectively killed the game as regular older subscribers left in disgust and little fresh blood was gained.
Calax Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 IIRC SWG effectively was akin to EVE online to begin with (with much of the content being player driven). But then they decided they weren't getting enough subscribers and they had to update the combat mechanics, so they went through and made a complete overhaul of the ENTIRE GAME that changed the class system, combat system, unleashed Jedi and so on. Victor of the 5 year fan fic competition! Kevin Butler will awesome your face off.
Niten_Ryu Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 Original SWG is (was) 2nd best sandbox MMOG (EVE has since passed it) in the history of the MMOGs (not counting pure social games like Second Life or Habbo Hotel). It was actually so good in the sand box element that game forgot to put "wars" in Star Wars. You could be cantina dancer, droid builder, hairdresser... yes, you could also be bounty hunter or commando but there were definately huge focus on "alternative" playstyles. Personally while I was always more combat oriented, I loved the fact that people could play almost like The Sims in the same MMOG with us combat characters. Players created weapons, vehicles, armor, vendors, buildings and shops. And even towns... It had real (virtual) economy going on with players mining, gathering monster parts or junky NPC drops... I loved the fact that newbie player could start to make profit right away, just by playing and exploring. Of course good things like this don't last and NGE changed just about everything. I had already moved to other games at that point but that's one of the worst moves done in any MMOG.. ever. Game never really recovered from that. Jedi / Dark Jedi (Sith) issue was definately one of those things that created a lot of problems from canon point of view. SWG was set in the time perioid where nearly all force sensitives should have been dead. KotOR Online dodges that bullet like a (pazzak) champ. Let's play Alpha Protocol My misadventures on youtube.
Calax Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 The way I heard somebody say it before was "Everyone who didn't like the game at the start left, and then everyone who liked the game at that point was driven off by "NGE"". Victor of the 5 year fan fic competition! Kevin Butler will awesome your face off.
Raithe Posted July 23, 2011 Posted July 23, 2011 Just to follow on for the SW: The Old Republic line.. Some of the ComicCon TOR Panel.. "Cuius testiculos habeas, habeas cardia et cerebellum."
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