HoonDing Posted April 4, 2011 Posted April 4, 2011 Somebody get Drew Karpyshyn a Hugo Award. The ending of the words is ALMSIVI.
Ice9 Posted April 4, 2011 Posted April 4, 2011 Whatever happened to BW actually writing stuff, cool characters like hk-47. Nostalgia. I tend to think that this is correct. BG2 was new and different and, to the best of my knowledge, really signaled the focus on NPCs and party interaction. It was new and fresh in those early days. Today, I think the main thing that has changed is my exposure to it. I've played Bioware's games, I know their tendencies, and have seen what they like to do with characters. Because I know their games so well I constantly remember back to BG2 and wonder why everything isn't as awesome. Is Wynne any better realized than Jaheira? I really don't think so. Everything was beautiful. Nothing hurt.
Nepenthe Posted April 4, 2011 Posted April 4, 2011 "Also, BG was better accepted for it's time than DA 2 has been, that is for damn sure." True, but I never argued otherwise. "Look how well BG 2 improved on BG 1. Almost everything about it was better. Look at how DA 2 has improved on DA 1. For every positive there is a negative, and sometimes a big fat stinking negative." I do agree with this 100%. BG2 is vastly superior to BG in every single way. there is NOT one thing BG1 does better than BG2. Not a one. The spellcasting sounds were better in BG1. I prefer the basic story of BG1, as well, but that's more subjective and the execution in BG2 is light years better, anyway. But the spellcasting FX are definite. You're a cheery wee bugger, Nep. Have I ever said that? Reapercussions
HoonDing Posted April 4, 2011 Posted April 4, 2011 BG2 assumed I had previously left Imoen, Minsc, Dynaheir, Khalid & Jaheira alive. That alone makes it far worse than BG1. The ending of the words is ALMSIVI.
Volourn Posted April 4, 2011 Posted April 4, 2011 "Is Wynne any better realized than Jaheira? I really don't think so. " Yes, yes she is. Andm i say that even though I prefer Jaheira. "BG2 assumed I had previously left Imoen, Minsc, Dynaheir, Khalid & Jaheira alive. That alone makes it far worse than BG1." r u serious? DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.
MrBrown Posted April 7, 2011 Posted April 7, 2011 http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2011-...ss-effect-games you are now imagining Shepard with anime eyes
RPGmasterBoo Posted April 7, 2011 Posted April 7, 2011 http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2011-...ss-effect-games you are now imagining Shepard with anime eyes This sounds like my personal nightmare. I've just about had enough of anime influence on western graphical design as it is. Imperium Thought for the Day: Even a man who has nothing can still offer his life
Nepenthe Posted April 7, 2011 Posted April 7, 2011 Courtesy of Bioboards: :D You're a cheery wee bugger, Nep. Have I ever said that? Reapercussions
Tale Posted April 7, 2011 Posted April 7, 2011 If Shepard is going to subject me to bad SNL skit based memes, then I prefer death at the hands of Cthulhu spaceships. "Show me a man who "plays fair" and I'll show you a very talented cheater."
HoonDing Posted April 7, 2011 Posted April 7, 2011 Ah yes, "Reapers". All I want for ME3 is a Turian councilor Renegade interrupt. That is, if he were still alive. The ending of the words is ALMSIVI.
Enoch Posted April 7, 2011 Posted April 7, 2011 Ah yes, "Reapers". All I want for ME3 is a Turian councilor Renegade interrupt. That is, if he were still alive. While I spent most of ME2 quietly rooting for him to be proven right, with Shep running through an elaborate self-delusion, egged on by credulous moonbat conspiracy theorists like TIM and Anderson. Sadly, they probably put too much supporting evidence to make this the case, outside of pulling a full-on Newhart or "Incident at Owl Creek Bridge" ending.
Monte Carlo Posted April 7, 2011 Posted April 7, 2011 (edited) Whatever happened to BW actually writing stuff, cool characters like hk-47. Nostalgia. I tend to think that this is correct. BG2 was new and different and, to the best of my knowledge, really signaled the focus on NPCs and party interaction. It was new and fresh in those early days. Today, I think the main thing that has changed is my exposure to it. I've played Bioware's games, I know their tendencies, and have seen what they like to do with characters. Because I know their games so well I constantly remember back to BG2 and wonder why everything isn't as awesome. Is Wynne any better realized than Jaheira? I really don't think so. Nostalgia is part of it, but also the alchemy of gameplay, characters, story, exploration and... stuff was better aligned. Now it's predominantly emo-NPC romance-sex-look how great our utterly linear story is overkill with some twitchy combat BS bolted on. So, no, really, BG1 & 2 were better games. It's the tyranny of plot, hack-wannabe novelists and cutscenes. Edited April 7, 2011 by Monte Carlo
Gromnir Posted April 7, 2011 Posted April 7, 2011 (edited) Ah yes, "Reapers". All I want for ME3 is a Turian councilor Renegade interrupt. That is, if he were still alive. While I spent most of ME2 quietly rooting for him to be proven right, with Shep running through an elaborate self-delusion, egged on by credulous moonbat conspiracy theorists like TIM and Anderson. Sadly, they probably put too much supporting evidence to make this the case, outside of pulling a full-on Newhart or "Incident at Owl Creek Bridge" ending. bierce story were short, and from the start you gots increasing clues that reality don't mesh with what is going on in the story. not even the biowarians would attempt a "who shot jr" bit o' flimflammery with me3 'course you weren't serious, but is simple far too late to pull back from the precipice o' Total Galactic Warfare. needs make the best of it. ... am still not seeing a point for the second game insofar as plot advancement. HA! Good Fun! ps am recalling that the only twilight zone episode Not authored by the incomparable Rod Serling was, "An Occurrence at Owl Creek Bridge". were a frenchie short film. pps apparently the entire short film is available online at numerous sites http://www.viddler.com/explore/nzgmediefag/videos/12/ we were disappointed with "Jacob's Ladder" as we were hoping for a modern reinterp that would do the material justice. Edited April 7, 2011 by Gromnir "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)
Enoch Posted April 7, 2011 Posted April 7, 2011 (edited) Ah, you're right-- it is "Occurrence," not "Incident." Should've double-checked on that. And of course I wasn't being serious. But the joke grew out of (IMO) a serious critique. One of my frustrations with ME1 was that even the Paragonist of Paragon Sheps still got all huffy at the Council for having the reaction that any rational and responsible galactic leader would (i.e., not believing Shep's mysterious psychic vision). Combined with how heavyhanded the game was in trying to make the player dislike both the Turian Councildude and Ambassador Udina, the nonconformist in me developed a perverse affection for these characters. Yeah, they're both cookie-cutter "stonewalling bureaucratic ****" stereotypes and aren't really worth the emotional investment, but I get something of a kick out of rebelling when a game pushes so hard on hackneyed emotional buttons. I pity these characters for what the writers are doing to them rather than resent them for what they're doing to Shepard. I'll play ME3, and I'll probably enjoy it. But, rather than cheering Shep on, I'll be resignedly nodding my head when the Councildude and/or Udina get their inevitable comeuppence. Edited April 7, 2011 by Enoch
RPGmasterBoo Posted April 7, 2011 Posted April 7, 2011 (edited) Nostalgia is part of it, but also the alchemy of gameplay, characters, story, exploration and... stuff was better aligned. Now it's predominantly emo-NPC romance-sex-look how great our utterly linear story is overkill with some twitchy combat BS bolted on. So, no, really, BG1 & 2 were better games. It's the tyranny of plot, hack-wannabe novelists and cutscenes. Yes. Its a question of craftsmanship and BG series is undoubtedly better. It has a much clearer idea of its genre identity and its "lineage", drawing directly from a long tradition of similar games while innovating at the same time. ME and DA2 on the other hand, including KOTOR and JE are bastard children of streamlined BG1/2 gameplay ideas and the most opportune console trends at the time of their making. Which is why they don't have cohesion and aren't as believable. Example ME2. It may be fun and good but its a movie with optional dialog on one hand and an arcade game on the other. You basically alternate between the two completely divorced games that are held together only by suspension of disbelief. In BGII everything happens inside the gameworld. ME2 doesn't even have a gameworld, rather, it has two which are not strong enough to stand on their own. One, which is essentially a tunnel full of waist high walls, and another which are complete locations in which you cant really do anything other than initiate cutscenes. Edited April 7, 2011 by RPGmasterBoo Imperium Thought for the Day: Even a man who has nothing can still offer his life
GreasyDogMeat Posted April 7, 2011 Posted April 7, 2011 http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2011-...ss-effect-games you are now imagining Shepard with anime eyes This must be cheap labor. Why pay good money for good animation when it can be outsourced for a fraction of the price. People don't actually like this art style... do they?
MrBrown Posted April 7, 2011 Posted April 7, 2011 http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2011-...ss-effect-games you are now imagining Shepard with anime eyes This must be cheap labor. Why pay good money for good animation when it can be outsourced for a fraction of the price. People don't actually like this art style... do they?
Enoch Posted April 7, 2011 Posted April 7, 2011 Yes. Its a question of craftsmanship and BG series is undoubtedly better. It has a much clearer idea of its genre identity and its "lineage", drawing directly from a long tradition of similar games while innovating at the same time. ME and DA2 on the other hand, including KOTOR and JE are bastard children of streamlined BG1/2 gameplay ideas and the most opportune console trends at the time of their making. Which is why they don't have cohesion and aren't as believable. Example ME2. It may be fun and good but its a movie with optional dialog on one hand and an arcade game on the other. You basically alternate between the two completely divorced games that are held together only by suspension of disbelief. In BGII everything happens inside the gameworld. ME2 doesn't even have a gameworld, rather, it has two which are not strong enough to stand on their own. One, which is essentially a tunnel full of waist high walls, and another which are complete locations in which you cant really do anything other than initiate cutscenes. I'm sorry, but there isn't a word of that that makes any sense at all. We get that BG1-2 are closer to your subjective preferences. But arbitrarily investing importance in ill-defined terms like "craftsmanship," "genre identity," "lineage," and "cohesion" doesn't bring your preferences into the realm of the objectively confirmable. What I get from your argument is "my subjective preference for BG is justified because [a bunch of nonsense I just made up]" Monte's critique makes sense to me, for a gamer with his perspective. Although I don't agree 100% with it, I do share elements of that perspective, and I understand where he's coming from.
GreasyDogMeat Posted April 7, 2011 Posted April 7, 2011 http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2011-...ss-effect-games you are now imagining Shepard with anime eyes This must be cheap labor. Why pay good money for good animation when it can be outsourced for a fraction of the price. People don't actually like this art style... do they?
RPGmasterBoo Posted April 7, 2011 Posted April 7, 2011 Yes. Its a question of craftsmanship and BG series is undoubtedly better. It has a much clearer idea of its genre identity and its "lineage", drawing directly from a long tradition of similar games while innovating at the same time. ME and DA2 on the other hand, including KOTOR and JE are bastard children of streamlined BG1/2 gameplay ideas and the most opportune console trends at the time of their making. Which is why they don't have cohesion and aren't as believable. Example ME2. It may be fun and good but its a movie with optional dialog on one hand and an arcade game on the other. You basically alternate between the two completely divorced games that are held together only by suspension of disbelief. In BGII everything happens inside the gameworld. ME2 doesn't even have a gameworld, rather, it has two which are not strong enough to stand on their own. One, which is essentially a tunnel full of waist high walls, and another which are complete locations in which you cant really do anything other than initiate cutscenes. I'm sorry, but there isn't a word of that that makes any sense at all. We get that BG1-2 are closer to your subjective preferences. But arbitrarily investing importance in ill-defined terms like "craftsmanship," "genre identity," "lineage," and "cohesion" doesn't bring your preferences into the realm of the objectively confirmable. What I get from your argument is "my subjective preference for BG is justified because [a bunch of nonsense I just made up]" Monte's critique makes sense to me, for a gamer with his perspective. Although I don't agree 100% with it, I do share elements of that perspective, and I understand where he's coming from. *sigh* I believe they're objectively better games and these are some of the reasons for that. If you don't understand them or they don't make sense to you, that's perfectly fine. Imperium Thought for the Day: Even a man who has nothing can still offer his life
entrerix Posted April 7, 2011 Posted April 7, 2011 some anime is awesome: cowboy bebop and spirited away, for example. I wouldn't trust anyone who disliked those two. I know there is a lot of other anime out there, but I haven't seen most of it, and even if I had, claiming that anime sucked because 99% of it sucks would be like saying horror movies suck (because 99% of them do), and completely ignoring The Haunting, Psycho, The Thing, and Night of the Living Dead etc etc. Killing is kind of like playin' a basketball game. I am there. and the other player is there. and it's just the two of us. and I put the other player's body in my van. and I am the winner. - Nice Pete.
Tale Posted April 7, 2011 Posted April 7, 2011 (edited) Sturgeon's Law This should be readily apparent to groups of people who go around claiming that all RPGs suck... except the few instances they personally adore and "why don't they just make more of that?" Why people insist on focusing on exceptions in some cases and the general in other, I'll never know. Edited April 7, 2011 by Tale "Show me a man who "plays fair" and I'll show you a very talented cheater."
entrerix Posted April 7, 2011 Posted April 7, 2011 haters gonna hate? Killing is kind of like playin' a basketball game. I am there. and the other player is there. and it's just the two of us. and I put the other player's body in my van. and I am the winner. - Nice Pete.
GreasyDogMeat Posted April 7, 2011 Posted April 7, 2011 (edited) some anime is awesome: cowboy bebop and spirited away, for example. I wouldn't trust anyone who disliked those two. I know there is a lot of other anime out there, but I haven't seen most of it, and even if I had, claiming that anime sucked because 99% of it sucks would be like saying horror movies suck (because 99% of them do), and completely ignoring The Haunting, Psycho, The Thing, and Night of the Living Dead etc etc. Cowboy Bebop is good in spite of its animation. 100% of anime sucks. 99% of the stories and characters suck. Let the flaming begin! The only thing that could cheapen the ME universe more now with an Anime movie coming out would be a ME MMO. Edited April 7, 2011 by GreasyDogMeat
The4th1 Posted April 7, 2011 Posted April 7, 2011 Cowboy Bebop is good in spite of its animation. 100% of anime sucks. 99% of the stories and characters suck. Let the flaming begin! The only thing that could cheapen the ME universe more now with an Anime movie coming out would be a ME MMO. Don't give them ideas
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