FO: NV (General Discussion)

[Lexx]

When I played Fallout 3 the last time, short before FNV release, I thought there is actually only very little to do in the game. Just a hand full of quests and the rest is running around in some dungeons and metro tunnels, killing stuff. So if we kick out all that running around and reading notes on terminals in buildings and killing stuff while this, there isn't much left that you can really do in that game.

 

About the encounters in Fallout 3. They have been more random and could appear in various places, which was good. But I still prefer FNV's "encounter" which tell stories about the world (like that Caravan close to Ulysses Ranch that is on it's way to Novac and gets ambushed by Legion folks). Though I have to say, beside this, I don't remember any other.

Edited March 31, 2011 by Lexx

[Starwars]

The random encounters were pretty much the only thing I missed from Fallout 3 (well, they were in 1 and 2 as well) in New Vegas. But to be honest, I don't think they made for a huge gameplay difference in Fallout 3. But it was nice for some randomness.

[entrerix]

i don't think i could go back to fallout 3 now having played new vegas. Not without a metric ton of mods at least.

[HoonDing]

The quest with retrieving the keys for that ghoul in FO3 was better than anything I've experienced in NV. The one with the android was also pretty good. Plus Reilly's Rangers... though it quickly devolves in a slaughter-fest, it's pretty nice how the quest triggers when you're wandering around in a ruined Pennsylvania Avenue.

 

There's also that big unmarked quest with the journals that eventually leads to the MIRV.

 

As already mentioned, NV has so much filler that the good quests get completely lost in the pack. Frankly, I can only remember the companion quests... and that horrible one that sent you to all the Ranger outposts. Twice.

Edited March 31, 2011 by virumor

[entrerix]

"too many quests" = a complaint I never thought I would hear.

 

its a good problem to have though, much better than "Not enough content"

 

i for one was absolutely ecstatic over the amount of quests, and the length of the quests, some were long, some were short, some required you to go places and explore, some merely required a handful of skillchecks or persuasion. it was the best modern approximation of how the quests felt in games of yesteryear.

 

I'm not an obsidian FANBOY, but New Vegas is honestly the best game i've played in yeaaars,

[Lexx]

What I liked the most is that the quests are sending you over the worldmap to nearly all places. Don't get me wrong, I like to explore on my own as well, but due to my experience with Morrowind, Oblivion and Fallout 3, I just know that exploring in these games doesn't have any other sense than finding some more random clutter items that you don't really need anyway. So it was pleasing to see that this time you at least will get a "finished quest" and such as reward for it and not only yet-another-stimpak...

 

Reminds me of the Gothic games (and Risen), which works in a similar way. The world is open and you can run around everywhere, but if you just want to do quests and talk to people, you will see the world as well, because the quests are sending you around. (Though, obviously quests that just send you around all day long over the whole map x time to make the quest feel longer are bad as well.)

Edited March 31, 2011 by Lexx

[WDeranged]

Just a hand full of quests and the rest is running around in some dungeons and metro tunnels, killing stuff. So if we kick out all that running around and reading notes on terminals in buildings and killing stuff while this, there isn't much left that you can really do in that game.

 

The thing is, I really like all that running around, reading notes and killing stuff, equally as much as I enjoy the quests I suppose, I think I'm in a minority in that I also love the metro tunnels, using Darns UI to remove the compass quest mark is a sure way of driving yourself mad...but I enjoy it

 

With regards to New Vegas, I enjoyed almost all the quests and most of the time the quest structure let me do what I instinctively wanted to do, which is damn cool but I didn't feel as though I could dig into the world as much as Fallout 3, which was a shame, all the inaccessible buildings irked me, I like opening a door and finding myself four levels underground and in serious trouble.

 

One thing that really stood out to me was how sensibly placed everything is in New Vegas, the world is more logical, a better sense of verisimilitude, the people in the Mojave Wasteland seem more real than in Washington.

[entrerix]

Just a hand full of quests and the rest is running around in some dungeons and metro tunnels, killing stuff. So if we kick out all that running around and reading notes on terminals in buildings and killing stuff while this, there isn't much left that you can really do in that game.

 

... in New Vegas, the world is more logical, a better sense of verisimilitude, the people in the Mojave Wasteland seem more real than in Washington.

 

 

in the end, this is one of the single biggest differences between the two games, and for me, is a major part of why new vegas is better than fallout 3 (which was still good, but was hampered by several major flaws, most of which were fixed in new vegas)

[Flouride]

With the exclusion of the Big Town/Little Lamplight quest, all of the quests you cited are generally longer than the typical FO:NV quest. Granted, I prefer FO:NV's design, but I don't think Fallout 3's quests are as bad as you guys make them to be, not by any stretch. Even Vince D. Weller praised them, and there's a reason.

 

Now I only need to know who Vince D. Weller is....

That "vampire" quest was only long because half the time you spent getting lost in the damn metro tunnels.

 

Even Oblivion was better written than Fallout 3 and I hate Oblivion.

[WorstUsernameEver]

Even Oblivion was better written than Fallout 3 and I hate Oblivion.

 

Why you keep mentioning the writing when it's pretty clear that I never was referring to that? While I don't agree with virumor that Fallout 3 has much better quests than Fallout: New Vegas, he's right that there is some very good design there, and he has mentioned some examples. How about counteracting them, instead of just rebutting with "BAD WRITING BETHESDA BAD"? Seriously, guys, it's not that difficult, point the design choices you didn't like and say how F:NV did better in that regard.

 

As for Vince, he's the man behind Age of Decadence and a long-time Codexian. Basically the guy who wrote the Dragon Age 2 review many here praised.

[Flouride]

Even Oblivion was better written than Fallout 3 and I hate Oblivion.

 

Why you keep mentioning the writing when it's pretty clear that I never was referring to that? While I don't agree with virumor that Fallout 3 has much better quests than Fallout: New Vegas, he's right that there is some very good design there, and he has mentioned some examples. How about counteracting them, instead of just rebutting with "BAD WRITING BETHESDA BAD"? Seriously, guys, it's not that difficult, point the design choices you didn't like and say how F:NV did better in that regard.

 

As for Vince, he's the man behind Age of Decadence and a long-time Codexian. Basically the guy who wrote the Dragon Age 2 review many here praised.

 

I guess I need to read this review then.

 

Why I mention the writing? Because in my opinion writing is a huge part of the actual quest design. Even if the initial design is superb you can pretty much ruin it with bad writing. It leaves a bad aftertaste even if you liked the design behind the quest.

 

Yes, Reilly's Rangers started in a nice way, but that quest just lead into a massacre. Didn't bother finding the android because androids seemed as fitting for Fallout world as idiots running around as superheroes, Harold made into a tree or talking deathclaws. Didn't find the Key quest, must have been already bored out of my mind at that point of the game and just finished the damn game. Or maybe I just shot Crowley, can't remember. But according to wiki atleast that quest was fleshed out nicely.

 

But then again for every well done quest in the game there was another one that was just plain retarded. For example: The Superhuman Gambit, all the quests involving those little kids as the whole place made no sense at all. How in hell are they surviving next to a super mutant base in the first place? Where do they come from and why would they choose to rub it in our faces as a design choice that we can't kill these annoying kids... And not to mention the design choice to make handing out water to beggars nullify all the bad things you might have done in the quests.

 

As for Fallout: New Vegas. Yes some of the quests were simple fedex quests and just involved traveling from place to place, but the amount of sidequests is huge if compared to FO3. You won't run out of quests immediately, there's something do for hours and hours (other than just exploring for exploring's sake).

And there were lot of gems as well: Come Fly With Me, Beyond the Beef and G.I Blues for example. It's only natural that not all of the quests are as long as the examples I use. They had a limited to work on the game after all.

Beyond the Beef had lots of c&c with three different ways to finish a pretty long sidequest. And the most important part (atleast for me) good writing. How can you not like a quest where a meat baron's child is to be fed to a bunch high society cannibals

[pmp10]

but the amount of sidequests is huge if compared to FO3. You won't run out of quests immediately, there's something do for hours and hours (other than just exploring for exploring's sake).

And that's part of the problem.

Fedexing or "go there and use speech" quests contributed little to my enjoyment of the game.

Sometimes they could provide insight into factions and motivations but most was unremarkable had few choices and no long term consequences.

As silly as some of FO3 quests were I can at least recall most of them.

Many quests in NV felt like they were meant for isometric RPG were you can do them in bulk.

[mkreku]

I like having lots and lots of tiny quests too. It's satisfying to be able to solve half a dozen quests in bulk after being out adventuring for a while. Not every quest has to be a three hour trek with twists and turns and ten different parts for me to enjoy it.

 

I think New Vegas had enough small quests, but was a little lacking in the meatier type of side quests. Still, I vastly prefer it to Fallout 3.

 

One thing I wish Obsidian would learn from New Vegas is to not leave so many quests half done. There are sooo many times when I've thought "is that it?" after a quest ended too abruptly and/or with no real closure.

[entrerix]

another huge thing someone here may be forgetting is that while the Fallout 3 quests were few, but long, they also had little to no C&C. Not every New Vegas quest had lots of C&C, but overall there was much much more to be found in FNV than FO3

[Lexx]

I think you could solve all (?) quests at least with two different endings, though. Which is a big improvement over other "rpgs" that get released nowdays. :>

[entrerix]

I think you could solve all (?) quests at least with two different endings, though. Which is a big improvement over other "rpgs" that get released nowdays. :>

 

 

i guess your right, I tried playing oblivion again the other day.... I don't think there is a single branching quest in the entire game.

[HoonDing]

I think you could solve all (?) quests at least with two different endings, though. Which is a big improvement over other "rpgs" that get released nowdays. :>

 

 

i guess your right, I tried playing oblivion again the other day.... I don't think there is a single branching quest in the entire game.

Wrong.

[Lexx]

With exemple 1, 2 and 3 that will be...?

[Flouride]

I think you could solve all (?) quests at least with two different endings, though. Which is a big improvement over other "rpgs" that get released nowdays. :>

 

 

i guess your right, I tried playing oblivion again the other day.... I don't think there is a single branching quest in the entire game.

 

I think there were few. Can't remember any of them though as it has been ages since I last played that game.

[Wrath of Dagon]

The one with the vampires, you could kill either the vampire hunters or the vampires. The crazy paranoid guy quest could be resolved a couple of ways I think. The party assassination quest there was an optimal solution you could get. There were minor variations in other quests as well.

[HoonDing]

I remember the quest with the stolen painting in Chorrol, the one with the stolen boat in Imperial City and the Daedric quest of Clavicus Vile.

[Slowtrain]

A lot of the quests in Oblivion had minor variations that could lead to slightly different outcomes, usually in terms of the reward.

 

For example, the save the farm from goblins quest in chorrol. Both sons could survive, one could, or neither. When you reported back to the father, the quest would end slightly differently depending.

[Enoch]

A lot of the quests in Oblivion had minor variations that could lead to slightly different outcomes, usually in terms of the reward.

 

For example, the save the farm from goblins quest in chorrol. Both sons could survive, one could, or neither. When you reported back to the father, the quest would end slightly differently depending.

I don't really think of "multiple quest outcomes" as including outcomes where you did the same thing for the same person, but were slightly less successful or less efficient in how you did it. (In addition to your example, I'll add being spotted by guards on a few of the Thieves' or Brotherhood quests.)

 

There's no decision on the part of the player to do a mission differently-- you're just not rewarded as well because you didn't achieve all of the quest's sub-objectives.

Edited April 1, 2011 by Enoch

[Slowtrain]

There's no decision on the part of the player to do a mission differently-- you're just not rewarded as well because you didn't achieve all of the quest's sub-objectives.

 

 

Yep, I'll generally buy that.

[Wrath of Dagon]

That's similar to a skill check in other games, NV did that a lot.