Piracy

[Cantousent]

"The customer is always right" doesn't literally mean that everything the customer says, thinks, or does is correct. It means you want to keep you customer happy by giving them what they want, which isn't always possible because people can be irrational. Back when my sister worked in a Lush store, a woman came in and asked for a particular product. When my sister told her the item was discontinued some time ago, the woman got angry and called her a liar and demanded she be given what she wanted. In this situation the customer is most definitely not right.

Agreed, but the focus of the discussion was the distinction of customer and pirate. Sorry about your sister but she is irrelevant to this topic.

It's kind of a pet peeve, but I've always hated it when someone says that someone else's point is irrelevant to the topic. You said that "the customer is always right." Kitty was providing a counter-example demonstrating that, quite literally, the customer is often not right.

 

Among other things, I have had to give many many customer service seminars all the way from Redding in the north to Las Vegas in the east to San Diego in the south. While folks might feel clever saying that my statement is irrelevant, it does put me in a position to definitively say that the customer is not always right. ...And I'm quite the pro-customer person. ...Aaaaaand, I wouldn't have brought up my 'irrelevant' story if I weren't addressing an inaccuracy.

 

I do agree that customers buy the product by definition. You "give an establishment your custom," which is pretty archaic these days outside of fantasy novels and computer games. On the other hand, consumers don't necessarily buy the product. They, by definition, consume the product. The manner in which the get it is.... irrelevant. :Cant's angry customer impersonation icon:

 

Here's a totally irrelevant story: while I was stationed in Korea, I would haggle with the shopkeepers over prices and it's culturally kind of taboo for the shopkeepers to flat out say no. One time I offered 20k won less than the shopkeeper wanted for a leather jacket and he said, "Yes, but 20 thousand more." He conceded I was right the whole time, but he certainly wasn't going to sell to me for the price I wanted.

[Deadly_Nightshade]

I once downloaded a No-CD crack for Dreamfall because it won't run on Vista any other way.

 

Still, downloading a cracked .exe for a game you already own, or making your own fix if the game is old enough or you have enough technical knowledge, is different than pirating the title.

[Hell Kitty]

If you saw an adult fighting a child over the fact that the child threw him a cake, who would you side with? The kid did wrong but the adult being the bigger party has to act the part and behave properly

 

Same way, a company taking on a bunch of teenagers seems like an adult taking on a child even if they are right to do so.

 

This analogy is ridiculous, an adult fighting with a child is not the equivalent of a business discussing and attempting to stop those who steal from them. Do you also think a security guard grabbing a 13 year old kid they just caught shoplifting is in the wrong?

 

This is just another attempt at dismissing everything a company says or does regarding piracy. First it's they are just being greedy, then it's they should remain silent because everything they say is just whining, and now it's they're just being bullies. Like the pirates who always have an excuse why their actions are right, you keep coming up with new ways to claim companies are wrong. When called out you just come up with another variation on the same old excuse.

 

The only customer is a paying customer, pirates are thieves and they should not be counted as a target demographic.

 

The target demographic is gamers, a group of which pirates are a part. DRM is an attempt at limiting piracy and turning some of those thieving consumers into paying customers.

Edited December 2, 2010 by Hell Kitty

[Orogun01]

This analogy is ridiculous, an adult fighting with a child is not the equivalent of a business discussing and attempting to stop those who steal from them. Do you also think a security guard grabbing a 13 year old kid they just caught shoplifting is in the wrong?

 

This is just another attempt at dismissing everything a company says or does regarding piracy. First it's they are just being greedy, then it's they should remain silent because everything they say is just whining, and now it's they're just being bullies. Like the pirates who always have an excuse why their actions are right, you keep coming up with new ways to claim companies are wrong. When called out you just come up with another variation on the same old excuse.

A business discussing and attempting to stop piracy without taking the extreme measures CD projekt and Ubisoft took. I'm not saying that companies are wrong on trying to stop piracy, but they should keep me and the paying customer out of the crossfire.

 

The target demographic is gamers, a group of which pirates are a part. DRM is an attempt at limiting piracy and turning some of those thieving consumers into paying customers.

Again, an objective study should be done to see how the market behaves. What kind of gamers buy which games and pirate others, it would help determining exactly who your target demographic is. But even without the study a fanbase is probably the biggest guarantee that your game is going to have an audience.

[Hell Kitty]

I'm not saying that companies are wrong on trying to stop piracy, but they should keep me and the paying customer out of the crossfire.

 

This is fair enough, though it's quite a change of tune compared to accusing them of being greedy and whiny. Companies should do their best to make sure paying customers aren't caught up in the systems used to stop the thieves but unfortunately there will also be people caught in the crossfire and when it comes to PC gaming expecting otherwise is similar to expecting perfect bug free games, it's an impossibilty when there are so many different system configurations.

Edited December 2, 2010 by Hell Kitty

[Orogun01]

I'm not saying that companies are wrong on trying to stop piracy, but they should keep me and the paying customer out of the crossfire.

 

This is fair enough, though it's quite a change of tune compared to accusing them of being greedy and whiny. Companies should do their best to make sure paying customers aren't caught up in the systems used to stop the thieves but unfortunately there will also be people caught in the crossfire and when it comes to PC gaming expecting otherwise is similar to expecting perfect bug free games, it's an impossibilty when there are so many different system configurations.

I guess my experiences with Tages security has colored my comments a bit still some companies; in their frustration, start ranting e.g. THQ blaming piracy for every failed game they have.

What you say it's the exact reason why I think that they should stop trying to directly stop piracy and look for alternate means that may prove more effective than the cycle of DRM-Crack-Upload.

[Orchomene]

I don't think that DRM has any effect at all on piracy. You can always crack a software whatever the protection put in it. It just gives the feeling to crackers that there is a challenge.

Only uncrackable softwares are the one you don't have an access to.

[Volourn]

"Consumers are costumers and the customer is always right"

 

No. Hella no. Hell to tha no.

 

Customers, more often than not, are wrong.

 

Customers, as a group, are some of the biggest morans in the universe.

 

They are to be laughed at, mocked, pitied, hated, and told to go cry to their momma.

 

So many times IU've seen customers epic fail, get embarassed, and take it up the butt while enjoying doing so 'cause they have little choice to. Because they are pathetic, weak, and losers.

 

Customers - the people that make me smile as I laugh at their evil scummery as they prtend to have power when they really don't.

 

R00fles!

[sorophx]

Volo, you're contradicting yourself

[Orogun01]

Volo, you're contradicting yourself

It's Volologic it doesn't need to make sense to be right.

[Hurlshort]

Volo, you're contradicting yourself

It's Volologic it doesn't need to make sense to be right.

 

It's really tough when he misspells moronic.

[Volourn]

How so? Customers are morons. This is a proven fact.

[Orogun01]

How so? Customers are morons. This is a proven fact.

I'll remember you said that when you tell us you bought something.

[Labadal]

Vuvuzela? Vuvuzela!

 

Vuvuzela!

[Orogun01]

Vuvuzela? Vuvuzela!

 

Vuvuzela!

[Volourn]

"I'll remember you said that when you tell us you bought something."

 

And, that would prove what? Customers are morons, and I'm no exception to the rule.

[Orogun01]

"I'll remember you said that when you tell us you bought something."

 

And, that would prove what? Customers are morons, and I'm no exception to the rule.

No sense beating you when you do all the job for me

[Mamoulian War]

Because reading these threads is always interesting, because it

[Orogun01]

Because reading these threads is always interesting, because it

[Calax]

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/vie...its/2653-Piracy

[Thorton_AP]

Because reading these threads is always interesting, because it

[Wrath of Dagon]

Developer advises to work with pirates: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2011/01/28...ds-phil-stuart/ I find this incredibly annoying. Because I'm honest, I'm expected to buy the game and support all the thieving pirates. Come to think of it, that's how the government works too. Well, you know what, there's no way in hell I'd buy your game, and if I want it that bad, I'd pirate it myself, so go screw yourself.

[213374U]

Developer advises to work with pirates: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2011/01/28...ds-phil-stuart/ I find this incredibly annoying. Because I'm honest, I'm expected to buy the game and support all the thieving pirates. Come to think of it, that's how the government works too. Well, you know what, there's no way in hell I'd buy your game, and if I want it that bad, I'd pirate it myself, so go screw yourself.

Yeah, there's no way in hell you'd buy their game... because it's a free game.

[Wrath of Dagon]

Yeah, I missed that part. Why is he talking about pirates then?

[Orogun01]

Because he is referring to unknown indie games which need to be promoted. One of piracy pros is that it reaches a wide audience and it's a risk free way for games to reach them, for indie developers this means recognition and a chance to be picked by one of the big publishers.