FO: NV (General Discussion)

[TheHarlequin]

Getting back to the BoS topics, has anyone gotten the more open minded paladin in charge and seen any BoS patrols in the wastes afterward? I am not sure if that was just talk on his part once he takes over or it does happen and I just kept missing those patrols my first play though.

I think they never show up because they might engage in fights with any NCR they'd encounter otherwise, and wipe the NCR out (regardless of the Helios One shoehorn, the Brotherhood can't possibly lose a fight against the NCR in the actual game, save maybe several veteran rangers) which might break some quests.

 

It still would be great to see the BoS lay some smackdown on the NCR arseclowns. But that's a valid point. Having scattered fights of NCR and BoS troops could frag up some quests or at the very least make things overly difficult in some situations. Either case still a let down he mentions sending patrols out but none are ever seen

I did flip out earlier tonight when I saw what I thought was a BoS power armor set at an NCR camp (It was an NCR heavy trooper). He looked like he could go toe to toe with a BoS soldier and give the guy a good fight.

 

Along these lines one thing that's been bugging me is that you hear all about how this faction hates that faction etc etc, but you only ever really see the one military action between the NCR and Legion. The Kahns are practically invisible, and almost everyone else is just a tiny part of the wasteland with only the NCR being the shown throughout the wastelands.

 

Also, I wish there was more interaction with the Legion. As it is you only really interact with them negatively until you get to the strip and then you can work for them, but the way that the NCR talks, it feels like they should have an entire section of the map that is technically their territory, which shows the benefits and drawbacks to the Legions way rather than the NCR way.

 

I checked the stats of the NCR armor it's actually inferior to the BoS power armor. Does not have the +1 str bonus and I believe has a bit less DT or such. So someone in NCR power armor with their typical standard rifle vs someone in BoS armor with the standard gauss gun, I don't think the NCR has much of a chance. I put Val in BoS armor and only the most extreme explosions (like those at nellis) or related kind of damage takes her out now. She took on 4 raiders by herself and didn't flinch. Like Val tells you the only real thing the BoS is lacking is manpower. they have a edge with training and equipment. If they could go man to man vs the NCR they clearly would win so I really sympathize with Val on that level. Also the point is made with the battle at Helios. They said the BoS held out for quite some time with 20 to 1 odds. Not many folks in the wastelands IMO could hold off against the NCR troops with those odds for any length of time.

 

I totally agree they game is HEAVY biased towards the NCR. Clearly the cannon story of this game is going to be how the courier sided with the NCR. I'd prefer it if the official story was Vegas became independent and pushed both CL and NCR out but we'll see. Has JE or MCA stated what the cannon storyline for this game is?

[Tale]

Clearly the cannon story of this game is going to be how the courier sided with the NCR.

I don't see how that's clear at all. A good argument can be made against Caesar, but the abundance of options to be friendly to NCR only helps Yes Man/House since they want to maintain tourism. It does not deny the other two.

Edited December 2, 2010 by Tale

[Calax]

Assuming the NCR take the area, it's doubtful that Vegas would stay as an independant location for more than a generation. Independent states like that need to have an outside friend or something to balance the powers around them to make it more important that they stay open and independent. The legion tho is just potrayed as so downright... evil for a majority of the game that the only way you can play as anything but a sociopath is to have either NCR or House/Yesman win.

[Slowtrain]

The Witcher had shades of this at times. Geralt would just randomly change voices between lines, but there only seemed to be the two.

Interesting. I never noticed that. So there were 2 different VA's who did the US version of Geralt?

I owned the UK version.

 

 

Ah, ok. In the US version, I think there is just one Geralt VA.

[LadyCrimson]

On Twitter:

 

Me: I always feel bad killing Robobrain/you. But it doesn't stop me. Thanks for the fun. (twitpic of me shooting Robobrain)

 

Wil Wheaton: Hey, it's the apocalypse; I kill Robobrain/me every chance I get. In his defense, though, he usually apologizes.

 

[TheHarlequin]

Clearly the cannon story of this game is going to be how the courier sided with the NCR.

I don't see how that's clear at all. A good argument can be made against Caesar, but the abundance of options to be friendly to NCR only helps Yes Man/House since they want to maintain tourism. It does not deny the other two.

 

No you can screw over the NCR at the very end and make vegas independent or house controlled. But my point is the NCR is shoved in your face right after leaving goodsprings. and you don't get any real chance to work for CL until near endgame. You can easily bypass the BoS entirely just by happenstance. Same with the Khans. So you really only get any true investment with the NCR, mission wise, until 50% though the game. By then many folks will be so invested with them few will turn on a dime to jump ship the first play through. It simply seems really loaded in favor of you getting into bed with the NCR. With that said, I draw the conclusion the official canon is going to be the courier helping the NCR and them taking the area. I could be wrong but certainly seems thats what the devs wanted you to do by the unbalanced sway in their direction for most of the game.

[Tale]

Clearly the cannon story of this game is going to be how the courier sided with the NCR.

I don't see how that's clear at all. A good argument can be made against Caesar, but the abundance of options to be friendly to NCR only helps Yes Man/House since they want to maintain tourism. It does not deny the other two.

 

No you can screw over the NCR at the very end and make vegas independent or house controlled. But my point is the NCR is shoved in your face right after leaving goodsprings. and you don't get any real chance to work for CL until near endgame. You can easily bypass the BoS entirely just by happenstance. Same with the Khans. So you really only get any true investment with the NCR, mission wise, until 50% though the game. By then many folks will be so invested with them few will turn on a dime to jump ship the first play through. It simply seems really loaded in favor of you getting into bed with the NCR. With that said, I draw the conclusion the official canon is going to be the courier helping the NCR and them taking the area. I could be wrong but certainly seems thats what the devs wanted you to do by the unbalanced sway in their direction for most of the game.

 

 

House is "shoved in your face" even before the NCR are. Who's the first person you meet outside the Doc's house?

 

The NCR, if following the main path, offer nothing before House does. Primm and the Outpost offer squat. They merely exist. Nobody's going to get invested on those two places anymore than they'll get invested in the one Legion mission there.

 

You want to talk investment, look at the fact that House is the only one who gives you a resting place that isn't a run down shack. The Lucky 88 is probably the most meaningful location in the game to players. House is also the continuation of the quest you get at the start of the game.

Edited December 3, 2010 by Tale

[Tigranes]

Arguably, that's the way to show NCR's impotence and weaknesses the best - by putting you in a locale where they are the dominant force and reasonably settled in. The fact that they have all these resources and manpower and infrastructure in place and still can't stop Nipton and still can't inspire any sort of respect from the Mojave's inhabitants.

 

I do think that there should have been a bit more Legion (I think one extra "normal Legion town" as a quest hub would have done it, as well as an option to get some directions from Vulpes Inculta at Nipton, move to Cottonwood Cove and join the Legion early), and a bit more robust Khans (perhaps at the expense of the Fiends).

 

I don't think many people will be 'invested' in the NCR per say, though, the game tells you every 5 minutes what a mess they are. It's a small balance thing, and I think all 3 options (House, NCR, Yesman) are very viable - it's only the Legion that are a bit shafted.

[TheHarlequin]

> House is "shoved in your face" even before the NCR are. Who's the first person you meet outside the Doc's house?

 

True and I partly agree with your assessment. My main retort would be victor is done fairly subtle. No missions are really given via him until you get to vegas and you don't know house controls him (in fact its implied he doesn't know whose controlling him to start). The NCR is there at Primm and most every major point along the 188 up to vegas. With many missions being handed out at all these NCR locations.

 

When I am talking investment I mean quests/missions, perhaps not emotional investment. If you do a ton is quests for faction A the odds most players will ditch them for faction B they just uncovered if they know they can't serve both is IMO fairly low. First play though at least.

 

> You want to talk investment, look at the fact that House is the only one who gives you a resting place that isn't a run down shack. The Lucky 88 is probably the most meaningful location in the game to players. House is also the continuation of the quest you get at the start of the game.

 

That is a valid point. But again by this point you prob have had a dozen NCR quests at least by the time you meet house, and invested a fair amount of time in the NCR NPCs if you follow the typical path. So again where is your investment? I know my first play through I was fairly apprehensive to side with house as by then I had so much time with the NCR and spent so much doing their quests I felt it was best just to work for house until I could screw him over for the NCR. The NCR may have their own issues but at least they didn't get me shot in the head and manipulate me as house did. (That last part playing the game from a RP perspective)

 

Perhaps that's just me.

[Cantousent]

With no fast travel, I seriously doubt that the Lucky 38 in the most significant place for most players. Of course, I can only speak for myself, and I wasn't much into it.

 

By the way, I got a more or less good ending for the BoS last time, Harlie. I have to say, there's really no 'good' ending for them per se. Doesn't matter who's in charge. Doesn't matter whether you finish Veronica's quest. Basically, they can exist longer and dwindle or be extinguished as a force immediately.

[Calax]

On Twitter:

 

Me: I always feel bad killing Robobrain/you. But it doesn't stop me. Thanks for the fun. (twitpic of me shooting Robobrain)

 

Wil Wheaton: Hey, it's the apocalypse; I kill Robobrain/me every chance I get. In his defense, though, he usually apologizes.

 

yay! I have something in common with Wil!

 

That said, I think the thing with the NCR is that you're shown a fairly sympathetic face of the lower rungs of the organization just wanting to do good, but feel hamstrung by the higher groups. Almost any other faction you meet is either obviously not going to matter (powdergangers) or shown as horrible (CL). When you get to NV all of a sudden it's like they all looked up and went "CRAP! He's actually important! WORK FOR MEE COURIER!"

 

And the only time the 38 will be that important to players is when they're doing the New Vegas quests on the strip, anywhere else and they're just gonna go into whatever bed they can find for the naps that they need.

[LadyCrimson]

The NCR are the closest analogy (?) to a pre-war US government....perhaps a little bias going on there. (edit:the writers I mean, not the forum...)

as well as an option to get some directions from Vulpes Inculta at Nipton, move to Cottonwood Cove and join the Legion early)

This. There should have been an early way to 'get into' the Legion if the player wants, and that point would have been perfect.

 

 

The deathclaw promontory has become my favorite place. Going in alone, going in with legit # of companions, going in with 3 or 4 companions. Sniping, sneaking, or charging in head first, whatever. It all = awesome fun. Too bad they don't respawn, forcing me to reload a couple saves over and over. Deathclaw fights are also the most fun thing to take screenshots of. *happysmile*

Edited December 3, 2010 by LadyCrimson

[Tigranes]

Geography-wise, the Mojave is designed ridiculously well. You clearly have the NCR constructing a border from Hoover Dam / Camp Golf down to Camp Searchlight, and you can see that the Legion's strike on Nipton was enabled through their radiation bombing of Searchlight and a breakdown in the NCR position in that area. Unfortunately, the area around Searchlight is much too difficult for players arriving there first time and very few are going to go out of their way, with no real in-game prompts at that point, to discover Cottonwood Cove.

 

And in fact, based on my experience (I might be wrong), if you did go there so early, you'd find you didn't really have a lot to do. I think this aspect of the game would have been hugely improved if Inculta at Nipton, or the leader of the Legion troops transporting the Nipton slaves, or a random patrol around the Searchlight area, could have marked the Cove, then the Cove serve as a Legion quest hub for counter-NCR quests (e.g. you could get the Vault 22 mission there). I'd have taken that in the place of, say, ~20 smaller sidequests that don't really do much to the factions.

 

I've just found Pushy (?), which is even better than Paladin Toaster! Now, if I can only stop Veronica switching to Missile Launcher at random times and blowing me up to bits...

[Amentep]

I gave Veronica a grenade launcher and she without fail always seemed to target Rex...

[Malcador]

Yet to get any other companions, my charisma must be too low, right now have Boone useful guy. Also I knew I'd heard the generic NCR voice before, sounds a lot like one of the few voices in Dragon Rising, heh.

[Orchomene]

At least, some way to oriente the player to Nelson.

[HoonDing]

Where is this "deathclaw promontory"?

[sorophx]

I think it's across the river vis-a-vis the abandoned Brotherhood bunker, I could never find it myself

[WorstUsernameEver]

Clearly the cannon story of this game is going to be how the courier sided with the NCR.

I don't see how that's clear at all. A good argument can be made against Caesar, but the abundance of options to be friendly to NCR only helps Yes Man/House since they want to maintain tourism. It does not deny the other two.

 

No you can screw over the NCR at the very end and make vegas independent or house controlled. But my point is the NCR is shoved in your face right after leaving goodsprings. and you don't get any real chance to work for CL until near endgame. You can easily bypass the BoS entirely just by happenstance. Same with the Khans. So you really only get any true investment with the NCR, mission wise, until 50% though the game. By then many folks will be so invested with them few will turn on a dime to jump ship the first play through. It simply seems really loaded in favor of you getting into bed with the NCR. With that said, I draw the conclusion the official canon is going to be the courier helping the NCR and them taking the area. I could be wrong but certainly seems thats what the devs wanted you to do by the unbalanced sway in their direction for most of the game.

 

And yet Independent is the most common ending.

Edited December 3, 2010 by WorstUsernameEver

[LadyCrimson]

Where is this "deathclaw promontory"?

Yeah, across the river. No map marker.

You can start at Blue Paradise or Cottonwood and swim to the the far bank then follow it till you find a gap in the rock 'wall' and there you are. (you can also start from around Cliffside Prospector Camp, but I think companions sometimes have trouble following you down/across because of cliffs).

 

 

If you have multiple human companions to tank for you it can be total chaos!

But you can also do the usual sniping/can't touch me business.

 

It's also the spot that

has Remnants power armor and a unique rifle...that is, if they don't glitch and don't appear.

 

[HoonDing]

Where is this "deathclaw promontory"?

Yeah, across the river. No map marker.

You can start at Blue Paradise or Cottonwood and swim to the the far bank then follow it till you find a gap in the rock 'wall' and there you are. (you can also start from around Cliffside Prospector Camp, but I think companions sometimes have trouble following you down/across because of cliffs).

 

 

If you have multiple human companions to tank for you it can be total chaos!

But you can also do the usual sniping/can't touch me business.

 

It's also the spot that

has Remnants power armor and a unique rifle...that is, if they don't glitch and don't appear.

 

OK, thanks. I'll go in there with six companions.

[LadyCrimson]

Heheh...I still haven't remade a chr. w/10 CHA so I can have all of them. I need to do that just for that area, it would be wicked fun I'm sure.

But in general, is going with 6 still working well for you? I continue to have issues anywhere w/self-closing doors because of the way they follow single-file, altho granted such places are rare. The third one always gets stuck behind the door....and out in the open, three has been more than enough for tankage. So far my preference is to stick with just 2, only both of them human...no ED-E/Rex.

[HoonDing]

Heheh...I still haven't remade a chr. w/10 CHA so I can have all of them. I need to do that just for that area, it would be wicked fun I'm sure.

But in general, is going with 6 still working well for you? I continue to have issues anywhere w/self-closing doors because of the way they follow single-file, altho granted such places are rare. The third one always gets stuck behind the door....and out in the open, three has been more than enough for tankage. So far my preference is to stick with just 2, only both of them human...no ED-E/Rex.

I had a hard time getting them all out of Brewer Beer's bootlegging. Vault 22 was annoying as well... I couldn't use the elevators because one or two would be left behind.

 

Also, when I decided to take the more aggressive path in the Tops, my companions killed everyone in the casino (but still managed to let Benny escape).

[Cantousent]

In some of those tight spaces, it's hard to get two companions to follow you properly.

[LadyCrimson]

Apparently, on the PC, if you remove all his inventory stuff (or you'll lose it), then use the console command 'resurrect' on Boone, he'll revert to his original equipment state, thus removing his 'quest armor' and making him a paper doll again. Yay. And as a bonus, you've duplicated his beret!* LOL

 

 

 

*not that pc users couldn't dump lots of berets into the game via GECK...but still funny. hehe. Also, I assume it'd work to reset all companions default gear.

Edited December 4, 2010 by LadyCrimson