Question about Obsidian

[Slowtrain]

Lionheart was developed by Reflexive.

[Thorton_AP]

It was a game published by Black Isle though. Note that I included the BioWare games as well.

[Slowtrain]

It was a game published by Black Isle though. Note that I included the BioWare games as well.

 

 

OK. I thought you were comparing games developed by Bio with games developed by BI.

[Thorton_AP]

No. Just discussing games that would contribute to Black Isle's rep.

 

 

We love their games, but we're a niche audience. We always have been.

[mkreku]

Also, here is another Obs specific questions. How come there's a trend with each game being shipped with so many bugs. What's up with that?

 

People love to blame the Q&A teams for this, but I would bet my house on most devs knowing about the bugs before the game ships. In any case an easy explanation would be Obs trying to do too much, not saying enough is enough early enough.

I have a lot easier time to put up with bugs when they occur in a game like Fallout: New Vegas. Or Gothic. Or Boiling Point. I've almost come to expect them from highly ambitious games, and Fallout: New Vegas is right at the top of the heap of ambition.

[HoonDing]

Once TES V is out and having sold 20 million copies, I wouldn't be adverse to Obsidian doing a TES spin-off set in Akavir.

[Morgoth]

Once TES V is out and having sold 20 million copies, I wouldn't be adverse to Obsidian doing a TES spin-off set in Akavir.

You mean Obsidian making a great game in the TES universe? It would only embarass Bethesda.

[RPGmasterBoo]

As much as I like watching Bolo hijack a discussion, there's still a topic in this topic. Or something like that

 

The explanations are as follows. Obs does what it does because:

 

1. Its the only one to make story driven rpgs other than the few big names

2. It makes good money

3. Its less risky

 

Kinda boring to always pick up where other people left off, but I suppose its a good explanation.

 

We still don't have a real explanation on the bugs. How big is Obsidian?

[WorstUsernameEver]

We still don't have a real explanation on the bugs. How big is Obsidian?

 

A little more than 100 employees, but they're usually split on a lot of projects at the same time. Really, I don't think there are complicated explanations, it's just that Obsidian is not good at scope managing.

[Slowtrain]

We still don't have a real explanation on the bugs. How big is Obsidian?

 

A little more than 100 employees, but they're usually split on a lot of projects at the same time. Really, I don't think there are complicated explanations, it's just that Obsidian is not good at scope managing.

 

 

It maybe just mnore than scope and be a problem with management in general.

 

WHile it's likely that SOME of the development problems of both AP and the ALien crpg were partly Sega's issue, I can't see how a large portiob of the problems weren't Obsidians. They seem to have a problem with project direction and management. Which probabl leads to not enough time and personnel to work out the final bug issues.

[Jaesun]

We still don't have a real explanation on the bugs. How big is Obsidian?

 

A little more than 100 employees, but they're usually split on a lot of projects at the same time. Really, I don't think there are complicated explanations, it's just that Obsidian is not good at scope managing.

 

Bug fixing is the responsibility of the publisher.

[sorophx]

and developers are equally responsible for releasing games without bugs

[WorstUsernameEver]

We still don't have a real explanation on the bugs. How big is Obsidian?

 

A little more than 100 employees, but they're usually split on a lot of projects at the same time. Really, I don't think there are complicated explanations, it's just that Obsidian is not good at scope managing.

 

Bug fixing is the responsibility of the publisher.

 

Of course, but Obsidian has a history of buggy games across many different publishers! And ironically, the only relatively bug-free game they managed to put out (Mask of the Betrayer) was with a publisher that came out with a mess like Neverwinter Nights 2! Seems clear to me where most of the fault lies.

[Tale]

We still don't have a real explanation on the bugs. How big is Obsidian?

 

A little more than 100 employees, but they're usually split on a lot of projects at the same time. Really, I don't think there are complicated explanations, it's just that Obsidian is not good at scope managing.

 

Bug fixing is the responsibility of the publisher.

 

Of course, but Obsidian has a history of buggy games across many different publishers! And ironically, the only relatively bug-free game they managed to put out (Mask of the Betrayer) was with a publisher that came out with a mess like Neverwinter Nights 2! Seems clear to me where most of the fault lies.

I like trivia. Mask of the Betrayer had a fun bug where if you didn't have Gann when talking to the witches or whatever the conversation would drop early and you'd get stuck. Thankfully I was able to drop the required Gann line in the toolset to workaround it. Fun.

 

Most of the big Neverwinter Nights 2 bugs actually seemed like they were introduced by the early patch (the one that included natural spell). People who rushed through it in the first two days did fine. Slower players I spent a lot of time helping get workarounds.

 

Not really disputing your claim. A buggy early patch is still buggy. And I only had the one gamestopper for Mask. But I like reminiscing. I actually miss doing that stuff.

Edited November 9, 2010 by Tale

[Volourn]

"Fallout: New Vegas is right at the top of the heap of ambition."

 

No, it isn't. Quality aside, it's a semi sequel to another game using the same engine and basically plays the same. That's not very ambitious at all. That's what's called 'doing more of the same'. I have no problem with that as long as the game in question is good but it certainly isn't ambitious.

[sorophx]

when we say ambition we usually mean the amount of NPCs, quests, locations, links between these and making it all work, writing a good backstory and not ****ing up in the process. comparing NV to FO3 is kinda stupid when looking from this perspective, but of course you still think NV is worse than NWN, so I forgive you

[Volourn]

"but of course you still think NV is worse than NWN, so I forgive you"

 

You sure about this? Or are you making up stuff again? I have no real opinion on LV as I haven't played it yet.

 

 

"comparing NV to FO3 is kinda stupid when looking from this perspective"

 

I loathe FO3. You bashing it doesn't hurt me in anyway and is irrelevant.

 

 

"when we say ambition we usually mean the amount of NPCs, quests, locations, links between these and making it all work, writing a good backstory and not ****ing up in the process"

 

All that is irrelevant. That's not ambition. That's what called making a game. Ambition is actually taking risk. AP, while not the most ambitious product, is way more ambitious than LV was. PST, and NWN were boith way more ambitious despite being D&D games. Arcanum was more ambitious than TOEE for obvious reason.

 

All the stuff you mentioned is about making a game good not making it 'ambitious'. Ambition is about pushing the envelop not just doing stuff that's been done for years. RPGs with npcs, quests, locations, links between them,m and making them work has been done for DECADES.

[sorophx]

You sure about this? Or are you making up stuff again?

again? aw anyway, I just had to look at your sig

You bashing it doesn't hurt me in anyway and is irrelevant.

never was my intention.

All the stuff you mentioned is about making a game good not making it 'ambitious'.

notice the word "amount", 100 hours worth of playtime is the mark of a very ambitious game to me. there are other, smaller games (much smaller) that are still good. so I don't see your point, sorry

Edited November 9, 2010 by sorophx

[Wrath of Dagon]

All the stuff you mentioned is about making a game good not making it 'ambitious'. Ambition is about pushing the envelop not just doing stuff that's been done for years. RPGs with npcs, quests, locations, links between them,m and making them work has been done for DECADES.

Not lately though

[Volourn]

"Not lately though"

 

Blatantly not true.

 

 

 

"I just had to look at your sig"

 

HUGE difference betwee NWN series and NWN OC. And, again, I haven't played LV so I haven't actually bashed it. Saying I'm not gonna pay full pruice for it b/c I loathedn FO3 and AP is not the same as saying itself is awful. It's about risk-reward factor.

 

 

"100 hours worth of playtime is the mark of a very ambitious game to me."

 

Does this include replays as I have NEVER played a game that was 100+ hours. Not even the mythical BIowarian BG2 of 200+ horus which is baloney.

 

Besdies, it is very easy to make a game 100 hours if one wanted to. To make a good 100+ hour game is impossible and has never been done. The closest are sports game but since the game play doesn't really change it really doesn't count or NWN with its mods but those worka little different.

 

I guess MMOs have 100+ hours of gameplay but they are extremely repetive as well.

Edited November 9, 2010 by Volourn

[sorophx]

Does this include replays as I have NEVER played a game that was 100+ hours.

you're a lucky guy then

 

seriously, though. NV took me 85 hours to complete and I missed 1/3 of all locations. Final Fantasy VIII took 120 hours, that was a complete run with every possible item acquired. that's top name a few, I could go on.

[Thorton_AP]

120 hours for FF8?

 

Did you fall asleep or something!?

[Tigranes]

That would involve a *lot* of tracking back and forth, that game carried more easter eggs than FO1 & 2 combined. It has stuff where you need to talk to a random person on the street and answer something meaningless, then 20 hours later halfway across the world pick up a dusty book, NOT do a certain thing that most people would do, then find an obscure area nobody knows exists, fight some impossible battles, then end up with a bunny ear, or something ridiculous like that.

 

Anyhow, FNV will probably take me ~40 hours, and given how I seem to play quicker than most players that's fine with me. That's around as long as the NWN2 campaign, but it feels less of a drag.

[mkreku]

Why are you arguing with someone so clueless that he doesn't even know the meaning of the word ambition? "It's been done before, therefore it's not ambitious!".. Holy crap, that must be borderline retard level.

[Monte Carlo]

Volo, if you really didn't like FO3 to that extent then I think it's fair to say that NV ain't gonna float your boat.