Dragon Age 2

[Maria Caliban]

Hey guys! Good to see we're all looking forward to the dark second chapter of BioWare's Epic cRPG Masterpiece.

 

I hear it's a framed story. Also, qunari have horns.

 

edit: i should hope the 2 man "party" comment would be sufficiently illuminating of the seriousness of my statement.

 

a 2 man party D&D game.

 

I've played a number of PnP games with only a 2-man party. You need a GM that knows how to create conflict resolution that involves more than fighting, and typically a hired NPC. Note that killing things in NWN only gave 1/10 the standard XP, so BioWare could hit you with almost x10 the normal amount of monsters. :/

Edited August 24, 2010 by Maria Caliban

[Maria Caliban]

I honestly think we'll be seeing more "old school" RPGs on handhelds in the future as WRPG devs discover that success can be found there.

 

No complaints.

 

That would be wonderful. I've often thought that one of the big factors holding wRPGs back is the emphasis on graphics that inflates cost and thus requires a bigger return of investment. I had hoped to see that on the Wii, but it still seems to have controller issues.

 

i would love a turn based mass effect

 

Are you insane? The ME fanbase would have a collective heart attack.

 

You speak of this as it would be something bad, why is that?

 

I found ME2 to be markedly superior to ME 1 when it came to combat and would like to see them retain it. I think having ME3 be a turn-based game would both hinder its development and take away from the feel of series.

 

That said, a turn based RPG or even a RTS in the ME universe would interest me.

 

 

NWN2 was an improvement over NWN and KOTOR2 was in it's turn an improvement over KOTOR. both writing- and design-wise.

 

I've noticed that sequels and expansions to popular games tend to be better than the originals (especially when they use the same engine). NWN2 was better than NWN, but so was Shadows of the Underdark, and Mask of the Betrayer was better than NWN2. BG 2 was better than BG.

 

There are exceptions (I

Edited August 24, 2010 by Maria Caliban

[kirottu]

Planetary exploration/resource hunting in ME2 totally ruined it for me. I think it is the most boring minigame ever created. It

[Nepenthe]

Planetary exploration/resource hunting in ME2 totally ruined it for me. I think it is the most boring minigame ever created. It

[WorstUsernameEver]

Our good friend Ausir interviewed Fernando Melo and Mike Laidlaw.

Edited August 24, 2010 by WorstUsernameEver

[TheHarlequin]

I have to say I kind of give up on Bioware. I'm just not interested in Dragon Effect II. Good luck with that and all, I'll just read the LP threads on it.

 

There are SO many ways they could have expanded upon this universe and just ignored it, to make yet another Action Game. Alas poor Bioware, I knew you well....

 

Kind of my view on it.. sounds like they are just making a action RPG aka dungeon siege not a deep tactical RPG like DA1.

[Tale]

But I agree, along with the Hammerhead ('See, we actually can do vehicle segments that are worse than anything you had to do in the Mako!'), I can't imagine how the planet scanning ever seemed like a good idea.

Is it that bad? I haven't replayed ME2 since before the Hammerhead was released, but I never imagined...

[GhostofAnakin]

But I agree, along with the Hammerhead ('See, we actually can do vehicle segments that are worse than anything you had to do in the Mako!'), I can't imagine how the planet scanning ever seemed like a good idea.

Is it that bad? I haven't replayed ME2 since before the Hammerhead was released, but I never imagined...

 

Was wondering the same thing. I stopped playing ME2 before the Hammerhead was released.

[Nepenthe]

But I agree, along with the Hammerhead ('See, we actually can do vehicle segments that are worse than anything you had to do in the Mako!'), I can't imagine how the planet scanning ever seemed like a good idea.

Is it that bad? I haven't replayed ME2 since before the Hammerhead was released, but I never imagined...

 

Some people think it's way better than the Mako. I'm in the school of thought that there was nothing wrong with the Mako, just the uncharted planets and the last thing the game needed are 90's style platforming bits with a 'tank' than can be killed with a pulse rifle. So YMMV.

[Tale]

I'm in the school of thought that there was nothing wrong with the Mako,

I revoke your right to hold opinions.

[Wrath of Dagon]

Yeah but you don't think that KOTOR has Fedex quests

Name some then.

 

 

I have a feeling there isn't a point because you'd just rationalize that it's not. Since you already have done just this. In spite not playing the game in years Kashyyyk has a handful of them. Go get the blade. Go down and find my friends down below in the underlands (or whatever). Go retrieve the evidence to prove that some wookiee is evil. Etc.

 

Aside from controls, KOTOR and Mass Effect are remarkably similar games too.

Well, I guess whoever said this is going to turn into argument about definition of Fed Ex quest was right. What I mean by it though is some assignment from some random NPC to fetch something or deliver something or kill someone, with no real relevance to the story or the theme of the game, used mostly as filler. By that definition, finding the blade was central to the events on Kashyyk, so it wouldn't fit. Finding the evidence was part of the larger quest of solving the crime which also involved a trial, so while that wasn't a very good quest in total, it wasn't a Fed Ex quest. Finding the friends I don't remember too well, it may be close to a Fed Ex quest, but at least you inevitably stumble on them, so it doesn't take much effort.

 

I wonder what's your definition for the FedEx quest, as KotOR seem to be full of 'em.

 

Let's take for example the getting into Undercity. That place is not optional nor you have a chance to kill the (sole) guard at the elevator. Nor use jedi mind trick or bribery. You have to give him papers. You get the papers when you trade your Sith Armor (again, not optional item) for 'em.

 

FedEx quest.

Get certain item.

Bring item to location x.

 

Notice how your optional methoids for advancement are not available. In this case you've delt with countless of ruffians, sith, jedi, robots, ruled the Sith ect ect. But yet somehow you can't beat a single guard at the elevator. You have to bring him Mcguffin. That's a FedEx quest and CRPGs, both new and old are full of 'em.

What does it have to do with being Fed Ex though? You're not even fetching anything. You're just complaining about not having alternate solutions. Btw, you could wear the Sith Armor and not give him the papers as I recall. Also killing him in a populated area and having the entire Sith army come after you wouldn't make much sense.

 

And it's not like having to get anything in an RPG is an automatic Fed Ex quest. Getting that item just has to have a point.

Edited August 24, 2010 by Wrath of Dagon

[HoonDing]

There's a Rodian on Korriban that asks you to deliver a box to a Hutt on Tatooine. That's 100% intergalactic fedex.

[Wrath of Dagon]

Not if you open the box.

[Tale]

You think Fedex guys can't open boxes?

[Wrath of Dagon]

Not if they want to keep their jobs.

[Tale]

My point exactly.

[Nepenthe]

I'm in the school of thought that there was nothing wrong with the Mako,

I revoke your right to hold opinions.

 

*shrug*

 

I think it was quite good on Virmire and Ilos, and not too bad on Therum, Noveria or Feros. It was terrible on all the smaller planets. Of course, you lack the reference point of the Hammerhead.

[Tale]

The problem with the Mako is largely that there is absolutely no credible threat to it. The Council doesn't need Spectres, they just need a couple of Mako drivers and they could end every war ever.

[Maria Caliban]

When I first heard of ME and Spectres, I'd hoped they were more like Sam Fisher than Rambo.

[entrerix]

i was thinking of a Starcraft ghost actually when the Spectre was first mentioned in previews. it turns out they were more like judge dredd but not nearly as cool.

Edited August 24, 2010 by entrerix

[Amentep]

The problem with the Mako is largely that there is absolutely no credible threat to it. The Council doesn't need Spectres, they just need a couple of Mako drivers and they could end every war ever.

 

The Thresher Maws killed me a lot. And I accidentally drove into lava a bit.

[Niten_Ryu]

Btw, you could wear the Sith Armor and not give him the papers as I recall. Also killing him in a populated area and having the entire Sith army come after you wouldn't make much sense.

 

You remember wrong. Getting into Lower City was possible without the papers as you could disguise yourself as Sith. When you talk about getting in Undercity to Gang boss, he just say "A simple disguise might have worked with the Upper City guard, but the security down here is much tougher. You need proper papers to get past him".

 

And then you meet the Sole Sith... in deserted corridor.

 

This is not about lack of options. This is about FedEx quest. You're given papers and only way you can advance is to complite that FedEx quest. Bring papers from place A (from Gang HQ) to place B (Sith guard). Bioware chose to do quest this way. They also could have designed it complitely differently. They didn't because FedEx quests are part of the CRPGs.

[Tale]

I would make a distinction between a fetch and carry quest that opens up a new area at the destination and a fetch and carry quest that does not. For the former, it's functionally a key that helps you progress. For the latter, it's just making you waste time travelling between two distant areas.

[Wrath of Dagon]

OK, I didn't understand which guard you meant. But you can't claim every time you have to walk somewhere as part of a larger quest it's a Fed Ex quest.

[Niten_Ryu]

But you can't claim every time you have to walk somewhere as part of a larger quest it's a Fed Ex quest.

 

FedEx quest was named after FedEx Corporation, who deliver stuff (that regular post might not do or maybe take too much time) from one place to another. It could have been UPS quest, as it's older company. Walking part is not important, getting certain item and bring item is what this quest type is all about.

 

It could be the key you need to open certain door, when you could just blow it up in some FPS. It could be The One Ring that you need to throw into volcano. Or it could be something very simple like to bring moldy bread to prisoner. Fedex quest can be used for pacing, to give reason for player to reach certain location or explore certain area bit more (so that all the hard work that designers, graphic artist and level designers do won't go complitely waste). In the case of KotOR, to lose Sith armor was vital as it meant that designers didn't have to do more altenative dialogue trees. Getting papers in return and then FedExing 'em to sole Sith trooper was simple way of doing it. Not the most elegant way, but not many players would protest about it.

 

Personally I think your issue is random quests (or randomly generated quests), especially in sandbox games. Random quest generators, NPCs or quest hubs. Some of the random quests can be FedEx quests, as it's very simple to randomly generate 'em. Here's item x, bring it to location y. Those quest generators are made because usually developer don't have time or resources to make enough quests for the large sandbox world. You definately see this in some MMOG and singleplayer games. KotOR don't have any random quests.