Mexifornia

[Orogun01]

 

J'Accuse!

But they gave us democracy and made English the language of commerce thus prompting all stupid Americans to think is because they are important and " The Greatest Country in the World" .

[Calax]

Should the American people have just let the British push them around? It was pretty disrespectful of them to go around revolting, and they should have understood their place in the hierarchy.

 

 

YES.

 

Just think. I could be a governor general, hammering around Venice Beach on a steam driven mechanical ostrich, powdered wig askew, and clutching a bikini babe.

ladies and gents: Wals

 

[Walsingham]

Damn those paparazzi!

[~Di]

Question: If they had let the kids keep the shirts on and then watched as the 5 got thrashed several times, wouldn't half of you be calling for the administrations blood because they didn't take action?

 

No, I'd be calling for the administrators to call the cops and report the crime of assault & battery. The very idea that kids can be beaten up on their own campuses for wearing a flag on their clothes, any flag (a large contingent of hispanic students wore Mexican flags on their clothing with no repercussions, and no stipulation that they can't wear said clothes any time they liked) and then the victims be blamed is a symptom of a very large problem. As pointed out, one high school actually banned the American flag from its campus (permanently, I believe) because some of the hispanic students were offended by it. Offended by the American flag flying over an American high school on American soil.

 

Also I thought we'd established on this board that the school is not governed by the laws and the students aren't free to act as they wish within the law, they still have to follow school rules and the school must act to prevent a potentially violent situation from appearing. The perception was that the 5 were putting on their american flag tee shirts as a provocation, and the administration stepped in to prevent the appearance of the five with black eyes, broken noses, and torn shirts or whatever. Is it overly PC? Probably, but still they had to do something before people started flinging punches at each other.

 

If the administrators of that school have so little control over their students that 5 kids were in danger of being beaten by hundreds of hispanic kids, then they're doing a piss-poor job. If there was enough racial tension in that school to evoke that fear, then Cinco de Maya should not have been celebrated on the school campus. Instead, it should have been celebrated by the community off-campus. There isn't another country on the planet that would ban their own national flag because a segment of their population was "offended" by it. Yet that is exactly what America is supposed to do in order to prevent violence by a bunch of people who are supposedly here because they choose to be although they want the flag of their country of origin to take precedence?

 

I've been a parent for a good number of years, and I've learned one thing about human nature from raising my kids. If you give them what they want every time they throw a tantrum, they will eventually believe themselves entitled to everything they want, and will throw increasingly violent tantrums to get it.

 

I love Mexican culture. I grew up surrounded by it. I love the people. But the warm, wonderful, joyful Mexican immigrants I grew up with did not resemble the hateful protesters we've seen over the past decade, people who seem to dispise the country they've adopted and treat it with disdain while demanding... demanding!... they their culture take precedence over all others. I believe it's a very small percentage of the hispanic community that feels this way, but that small percentage is very vocal, very entitled, and frankly is angering and frightening people who have never before given a second thought to the good people who comprise 45% of our minorities. There's a racial divisiveness now that I never saw growing up, never saw raising my own kids in the midst of a community filled with wonderful hispanic people (and wonderful VietNamese people!). I'm not liking what I see, and I'm not liking the shrieks of "racism" being flung far and wide every time a few extremist Mexican nationalists throw a public tantrum.

[~Di]

^ One of them is part-Hispanic. This doesn't look as simple as it appears, difficult as that might be for the school.

 

It doesn't matter if they were green and tentacled, they were intentionally baiting another group.

 

I see. Let's compare those 5 boys wearing patriotic T-shirts with the 200 hispanic students that skipped classes the following day and marched to the school administrative offices carrying their Mexican flags and chanting "si se puede" and "we want respect". Would you consider that "baiting" another group? Because I sure as hell would.

[Volourn]

We all must consider the well known fact that racism, and bigotry is a white disease and no other race/culture caan be inflicted by it. So, don't judge these poor Mexicans who have every right to loathe Amerika since Amerika is a 'symbol' of white power. *puke*

[Amentep]

We all must consider the well known fact that racism, and bigotry is a white disease and no other race/culture caan be inflicted by it. So, don't judge these poor Mexicans who have every right to loathe Amerika since Amerika is a 'symbol' of white power. *puke*

 

I don't think anyone is claiming that Mexicans can't be rasist or its okay for them to loathe the US. In fact several people have made the opposite point.

 

I know I've made great pains to point out that I think its silly for anyone to be offended by the flag or for the administration to not find alternate solutions to a dicey situation.

[Hurlshort]

^ One of them is part-Hispanic. This doesn't look as simple as it appears, difficult as that might be for the school.

 

It doesn't matter if they were green and tentacled, they were intentionally baiting another group.

 

I see. Let's compare those 5 boys wearing patriotic T-shirts with the 200 hispanic students that skipped classes the following day and marched to the school administrative offices carrying their Mexican flags and chanting "si se puede" and "we want respect". Would you consider that "baiting" another group? Because I sure as hell would.

 

Yes, the protesters are being stupid as well. I've already said it is stupid for anyone to get upset over the 5 boys regalia. Look, I'm tired of repeating myself at this point. There is a tremendous lack of knowledge about how High Schools operate, how the social structures work within schools, and what actually goes through the minds of hormonal teenagers. I'm not just talking about here, as there are plenty of media outlets that are ignorant as well. So go ahead and jump on the Patriot bandwagon and ignore the actual intent of the boys.

[Walsingham]

I think they should have shot the student in the white turban.

 

Okay, maybe that was a joke for too few people. Basically I was trying to point out that managing a mixed pot of cultures is difficult. I think we should send a few companies of ghurkas in red jackets to bolster the school governors.

[lord of flies]

What would the Mexicans say if I went to their country and told them not to wear the Mexican flag because it's the 4th of July?

"the Mexicans"

I love Mexican culture. I grew up surrounded by it. I love the people. But the warm, wonderful, joyful Mexican immigrants I grew up with did not resemble the hateful protesters we've seen over the past decade, people who seem to dispise the country they've adopted and treat it with disdain while demanding... demanding!... they their culture take precedence over all others. I believe it's a very small percentage of the hispanic community that feels this way, but that small percentage is very vocal, very entitled, and frankly is angering and frightening people who have never before given a second thought to the good people who comprise 45% of our minorities. There's a racial divisiveness now that I never saw growing up, never saw raising my own kids in the midst of a community filled with wonderful hispanic people (and wonderful VietNamese people!). I'm not liking what I see, and I'm not liking the shrieks of "racism" being flung far and wide every time a few extremist Mexican nationalists throw a public tantrum.

what the **** is this? seriously tho what am i looking at. it looks like we have someone who doesn't like it when immigrants march for their rights and for the expansion of legal immigration, but just "loves" the "Mexican culture" that she (?) grew up "surrounded by."

 

lmao @ the idea that the recent anti-SB1070 protests are about hispanic supremacism. wtf?

[RPGmasterBoo]

Here comes the typical reaction. Someone makes a valid personal observation and the cries racist! racist! (or in these parts, nationalist! nationalist!) explode as if you have you had torched somebody.

Its followed by this assurance that its all your "paranoia", that you're seeing things that aren't there etc. etc.

 

And its always the same, no matter how moderate or polite you are. The end result of never being able to express an opinion without fear of backlash or branding is bound to have far reaching consequences.

[Oblarg]

What would the Mexicans say if I went to their country and told them not to wear the Mexican flag because it's the 4th of July?

"the Mexicans"

I love Mexican culture. I grew up surrounded by it. I love the people. But the warm, wonderful, joyful Mexican immigrants I grew up with did not resemble the hateful protesters we've seen over the past decade, people who seem to dispise the country they've adopted and treat it with disdain while demanding... demanding!... they their culture take precedence over all others. I believe it's a very small percentage of the hispanic community that feels this way, but that small percentage is very vocal, very entitled, and frankly is angering and frightening people who have never before given a second thought to the good people who comprise 45% of our minorities. There's a racial divisiveness now that I never saw growing up, never saw raising my own kids in the midst of a community filled with wonderful hispanic people (and wonderful VietNamese people!). I'm not liking what I see, and I'm not liking the shrieks of "racism" being flung far and wide every time a few extremist Mexican nationalists throw a public tantrum.

what the **** is this? seriously tho what am i looking at. it looks like we have someone who doesn't like it when immigrants march for their rights and for the expansion of legal immigration, but just "loves" the "Mexican culture" that she (?) grew up "surrounded by."

 

lmao @ the idea that the recent anti-SB1070 protests are about hispanic supremacism. wtf?

 

To be honest, I don't think that's what she (?) was referring to.

[Meshugger]

What would the Mexicans say if I went to their country and told them not to wear the Mexican flag because it's the 4th of July?

"the Mexicans"

I love Mexican culture. I grew up surrounded by it. I love the people. But the warm, wonderful, joyful Mexican immigrants I grew up with did not resemble the hateful protesters we've seen over the past decade, people who seem to dispise the country they've adopted and treat it with disdain while demanding... demanding!... they their culture take precedence over all others. I believe it's a very small percentage of the hispanic community that feels this way, but that small percentage is very vocal, very entitled, and frankly is angering and frightening people who have never before given a second thought to the good people who comprise 45% of our minorities. There's a racial divisiveness now that I never saw growing up, never saw raising my own kids in the midst of a community filled with wonderful hispanic people (and wonderful VietNamese people!). I'm not liking what I see, and I'm not liking the shrieks of "racism" being flung far and wide every time a few extremist Mexican nationalists throw a public tantrum.

what the **** is this? seriously tho what am i looking at. it looks like we have someone who doesn't like it when immigrants march for their rights and for the expansion of legal immigration, but just "loves" the "Mexican culture" that she (?) grew up "surrounded by."

 

lmao @ the idea that the recent anti-SB1070 protests are about hispanic supremacism. wtf?

 

Shush you, you do not believe in any nation-state or culture to begin with. It is time for you to have a discussion with the management about the state of things.

 

With people like you in command, situations like these wouldn't been an issue. In your worker's paradise utopia they would've all burned their respective flags, hanged the school principal, all while singing the internationale.

 

Then they would've gone off building some tractors or something.

Edited May 8, 2010 by Meshugger

[Oblarg]

What would the Mexicans say if I went to their country and told them not to wear the Mexican flag because it's the 4th of July?

"the Mexicans"

I love Mexican culture. I grew up surrounded by it. I love the people. But the warm, wonderful, joyful Mexican immigrants I grew up with did not resemble the hateful protesters we've seen over the past decade, people who seem to dispise the country they've adopted and treat it with disdain while demanding... demanding!... they their culture take precedence over all others. I believe it's a very small percentage of the hispanic community that feels this way, but that small percentage is very vocal, very entitled, and frankly is angering and frightening people who have never before given a second thought to the good people who comprise 45% of our minorities. There's a racial divisiveness now that I never saw growing up, never saw raising my own kids in the midst of a community filled with wonderful hispanic people (and wonderful VietNamese people!). I'm not liking what I see, and I'm not liking the shrieks of "racism" being flung far and wide every time a few extremist Mexican nationalists throw a public tantrum.

what the **** is this? seriously tho what am i looking at. it looks like we have someone who doesn't like it when immigrants march for their rights and for the expansion of legal immigration, but just "loves" the "Mexican culture" that she (?) grew up "surrounded by."

 

lmao @ the idea that the recent anti-SB1070 protests are about hispanic supremacism. wtf?

 

Shush you, you do not believe in any nation-state or culture to begin with. It is time for you to have a discussion with the management about the state of things.

 

With people like you in command, situations like these wouldn't been an issue. In your worker's paradise utopia they would've all burned their respective flags, hanged the school principal, all while singing the internationale.

 

Then they would've gone off building some tractors or something.

 

Blatant strawmanning doesn't make you look good.

[Meshugger]

What would the Mexicans say if I went to their country and told them not to wear the Mexican flag because it's the 4th of July?

"the Mexicans"

I love Mexican culture. I grew up surrounded by it. I love the people. But the warm, wonderful, joyful Mexican immigrants I grew up with did not resemble the hateful protesters we've seen over the past decade, people who seem to dispise the country they've adopted and treat it with disdain while demanding... demanding!... they their culture take precedence over all others. I believe it's a very small percentage of the hispanic community that feels this way, but that small percentage is very vocal, very entitled, and frankly is angering and frightening people who have never before given a second thought to the good people who comprise 45% of our minorities. There's a racial divisiveness now that I never saw growing up, never saw raising my own kids in the midst of a community filled with wonderful hispanic people (and wonderful VietNamese people!). I'm not liking what I see, and I'm not liking the shrieks of "racism" being flung far and wide every time a few extremist Mexican nationalists throw a public tantrum.

what the **** is this? seriously tho what am i looking at. it looks like we have someone who doesn't like it when immigrants march for their rights and for the expansion of legal immigration, but just "loves" the "Mexican culture" that she (?) grew up "surrounded by."

 

lmao @ the idea that the recent anti-SB1070 protests are about hispanic supremacism. wtf?

 

Shush you, you do not believe in any nation-state or culture to begin with. It is time for you to have a discussion with the management about the state of things.

 

With people like you in command, situations like these wouldn't been an issue. In your worker's paradise utopia they would've all burned their respective flags, hanged the school principal, all while singing the internationale.

 

Then they would've gone off building some tractors or something.

 

Blatant strawmanning doesn't make you look good.

 

Oh my Context, please.

 

No really, it is pretty much herp-derp to hear a soviet-russia apologist(not you) trying debate cultural identity.

[~Di]

What would the Mexicans say if I went to their country and told them not to wear the Mexican flag because it's the 4th of July?

"the Mexicans"

I love Mexican culture. I grew up surrounded by it. I love the people. But the warm, wonderful, joyful Mexican immigrants I grew up with did not resemble the hateful protesters we've seen over the past decade, people who seem to dispise the country they've adopted and treat it with disdain while demanding... demanding!... they their culture take precedence over all others. I believe it's a very small percentage of the hispanic community that feels this way, but that small percentage is very vocal, very entitled, and frankly is angering and frightening people who have never before given a second thought to the good people who comprise 45% of our minorities. There's a racial divisiveness now that I never saw growing up, never saw raising my own kids in the midst of a community filled with wonderful hispanic people (and wonderful VietNamese people!). I'm not liking what I see, and I'm not liking the shrieks of "racism" being flung far and wide every time a few extremist Mexican nationalists throw a public tantrum.

what the **** is this? seriously tho what am i looking at. it looks like we have someone who doesn't like it when immigrants march for their rights and for the expansion of legal immigration, but just "loves" the "Mexican culture" that she (?) grew up "surrounded by."

 

lmao @ the idea that the recent anti-SB1070 protests are about hispanic supremacism. wtf?

 

To be honest, I don't think that's what she (?) was referring to.

 

 

You're quite right, it's not what I was referring to. Thanks.

[WILL THE ALMIGHTY]

... it's just a flag. :/

[lord of flies]

Oh my Context, please.

 

No really, it is pretty much herp-derp to hear a soviet-russia apologist(not you) trying debate cultural identity.

Somebody needs to read some Lenin. *sigh*

 

Lenin's great distinguishing feature, in contradistinction to contemporary Marxists like Luxemburg, was his firm belief in national self-determination: that is, the right of all nations to secession and to their own culture.

[Walsingham]

Blatant strawmanning doesn't make you look good.

 

It's not strawmanning. If LoF was principle he wouldn't get involved until more than 22,000 people had been killed.

[Oner]

So, you guys still arguing about which jerk has the right to be a jerk to the other jerk?

Edited May 9, 2010 by Oner

[lord of flies]

It's not strawmanning. If LoF was principle he wouldn't get involved until more than 22,000 people had been killed.

If you want to have a fight over Katyn, go ahead and start one. This tiresome sniping impresses no one.

You're quite right, it's not what I was referring to. Thanks. original.gif

I'm pretty sure someone brought up SB-1070 (in some veiled reference about "a state enforcing the unenforced federal laws with respect to immigration"). I'm not re-reading the thread to find out who because Obsidian runs like crap on my computer. Whoever it was: **** you.

[Walsingham]

It's not strawmanning. If LoF was principle he wouldn't get involved until more than 22,000 people had been killed.

If you want to have a fight over Katyn, go ahead and start one. This tiresome sniping impresses no one.

 

 

We had a 'fight' over Katyn. You said it was an irrelevance. Of course, you also claim that the Ukrainian famine wasn't deliberate or a consequence of forced collectivisation. So I suppose Katyn must pale by comparison.

 

You can't expect us to just gloss over your eagerness for bloodshed.

[Oblarg]

It's not strawmanning. If LoF was principle he wouldn't get involved until more than 22,000 people had been killed.

If you want to have a fight over Katyn, go ahead and start one. This tiresome sniping impresses no one.

 

 

We had a 'fight' over Katyn. You said it was an irrelevance. Of course, you also claim that the Ukrainian famine wasn't deliberate or a consequence of forced collectivisation. So I suppose Katyn must pale by comparison.

 

You can't expect us to just gloss over your eagerness for bloodshed.

 

Discuss this in the thread about it. It's irrelevant to the current discussion, and that was still a strawman (and a pretty bad one at that).

[Meshugger]

Oh my Context, please.

 

No really, it is pretty much herp-derp to hear a soviet-russia apologist(not you) trying debate cultural identity.

Somebody needs to read some Lenin. *sigh*

 

Lenin's great distinguishing feature, in contradistinction to contemporary Marxists like Luxemburg, was his firm belief in national self-determination: that is, the right of all nations to secession and to their own culture.

 

Oh, the right totalitarian movement acknowledged cultural identity. So, what would Lenin do? (W.W.L.D)

[RPGmasterBoo]

Lenin's great distinguishing feature, in contradistinction to contemporary Marxists like Luxemburg, was his firm belief in national self-determination: that is, the right of all nations to secession and to their own culture.

 

Your blatant bias and cherry picking has prompted me to respond. I was always sympathetic to leftist ideas but its because of people like you that we are viewed as no better than the taliban.

The only reasons Lenin embraced that policy is:

 

1) because he was sent from Switzerland on a train loaded with gold on a task (given to him by Germans) to incite revolt in the Russian empire. They gave him the funds in exchange for his efforts on the dissolution of the Russian empire.

and

2) because he couldn't find enough supporters for his absurd policies. Every other political idea, particularly left anarchism/anarcho communism had more supporters than the bolsheviks. Only by promising every single Tom, **** and Harry their own mini state could he garner enough support for bolshevik policies.

 

These are common knowledge and failing to mention them makes Lenin seem like some sort of patron saint of national liberation, instead of the typical calculating politician he was. His support for that policy stemmed only from the demands of the moment, not out of any sort of conviction.