Dragon Age discussion

[Bos_hybrid]

When I started this discussion I meant that Awakening could represent that jump in quality that MotB was over NWN2 in terms of plot and characters. I didn't think they'd actually make anything like MotB, because the "play it safe 110%" strategy that they've adopted will simply never yield such a game.

 

To make a game like MotB means you're willing to take the risk of creating a major financial failure. Bioware won't do it. *shrugs*

 

See I really liked DA characters, it was the plot that I thought was average. Also funnily enough I liked NWN2 JNPCs more then MoTB. It was just MOTB plot that made the difference to me.

 

I don't think Obs/Atari considerd MOTB a financial risk. It was an expansion to a well received game, that had lots of fans. Bio has this 'save the world' thing it's obsessed with, they think that's what the majority of their fans want and quite frankly they're right. I was hoping that an expansion might allow for a more personal story, but Bio decided to go with save the world option again.

 

We know that the developers had a limited budget

 

What? Really? A Bio/EA game with limited budget?

 

and it was rushed out because the longer you wait for an xpac, the less profitable it will be.

 

I though they have been working on it for about 10 months? That's not that rushed for an expansion.

 

The one thing I see Awakening as having that Origins seriously lacked is a good antagonist. The Architect isn

[Sannom]

Orlais = France. Imperium wins.

 

Orlais = Louis XIV's France. Dude had like five years of peace in a, what, forty years-long reign? Plus some of the best generals out there? I wouldn't expect Orlais to be so easy to defeat

[Maria Caliban]

Bos_hybrid,

 

Okay, you

[Monte Carlo]

That Gamebanshee review is pretty much on the money, except that I would disagree about the combat... a bit. Yup, it's slightly too grindy but it's still good for a contemporary CRPG.

 

Like everybody else, I'm interested in seeing where the franchise is going. Hopefully beyond the whole Grey Warden / Blight schtick, I like some of the nations they've described (The Imperium for example) and think they are solid enough to carry any number of plots.

 

Cheers

MC

[Maria Caliban]

Achievements list - Added the achievements for Awakening.

[funcroc]

Ferret designed the stronghold aspects of NWN2 and is the lead designer of Awakening. In Awakening, we get Virgil's Keep as a stronghold.

No. Tony Evans designed the stronghold mechanics for NWN2.

 

I've worked with Tony Evans directly for almost five years at Obsidian on a variety of projects, including Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords, Neverwinter Nights 2, Mask of the Betrayer, and indirectly for a year and a half on Storm of Zehir and other projects at Obsidian. Since day one, Tony charged into design responsibilities full force, and was instrumental in completing Dantooine, Korriban, Onderon, Dxun, and the opening Ebon Hawk tutorial level of Knights of the Old Republic II. He also managed and completed Act III in Neverwinter Nights 2 along with designing and implementing the Stronghold mechanics for Crossroad Keep. The Sunken City, Mulsantir, Death God's Vault, and the Wells of Lurue (along with one of the more memorable companions, One of Many) were his focus in Mask of the Betrayer, and as lead designer, Tony led the charge in taking and mentoring a largely junior team on Storm of Zehir, turning out the second NWN2 expansion in a timely and high quality fashion.

[Maria Caliban]

My thoughts on the matter: **** ****.

 

Also, that you for the information.

Edited February 26, 2010 by Maria Caliban

[HoonDing]

I had previously hoped on a story for DA2 involving a war between the Black Chantry of Tevinter (blood magic FTW) & the White Chantry of Orlais, but this doesn't seem really possible.

 

A war between two nations of Thedas would just be an invitation for the Qunari to attack them in their weakened state.

 

For the same, the Qunari aren't really in a position to break the status quo, since that would just unite the major powers of Thedas and they'd might even lose the islands they had conquered x years before the game. Unless of course a major Qunari force would arrive from their home continent overseas...

Edited February 26, 2010 by virumor

[RPGmasterBoo]

See I really liked DA characters, it was the plot that I thought was average. Also funnily enough I liked NWN2 JNPCs more then MoTB. It was just MOTB plot that made the difference to me.

 

I don't think Obs/Atari considerd MOTB a financial risk. It was an expansion to a well received game, that had lots of fans. Bio has this 'save the world' thing it's obsessed with, they think that's what the majority of their fans want and quite frankly they're right. I was hoping that an expansion might allow for a more personal story, but Bio decided to go with save the world option again.

 

It goes without saying that the characters in DA were better than the plot.

 

As for MotB (+KOTORII), Obsidian characters (or just Avellone's characters) often have this mystique about them that makes me actually want to know their stories. I always have this feeling there's more about them than meets the eye (which is often the case, since they usually have some previous relationship/bond to the PC - a concept repeated since Torment). Plus they're often appealing and/or unusual visually and most for some reason feature pleasant (and similar) voice acting.

[Maria Caliban]

The Exalted Marches could have destroyed the qunari, but the Andrestean Chantry is fine with one set of heathens (qunari) destroying another (Imperial Chantry.) No one will aid Tevinter.

[Sannom]

Bos_hybrid,

 

Okay, you

[HoonDing]

Qunari seem a combination of Fremen with their philosophy, and Seanchans with their attitude towards magick. And they have cannons. Can't forget about the cannons.

[Monte Carlo]

^ I eagerly await a Qunari artillery minigame.

[Maria Caliban]

They cut out the tongue of mages and force them to live on leashes because 'all must serve'. How is that not classic lawful evil? They occasionally throw giant parties and afterwards hold executions for those who get too rowdy.

[Monte Carlo]

Alignment is so, like, last century in RPG behaviour paradigms.

 

Let's all move on.

[Sannom]

But how is that more evil than keeping the mages in a golden cage, stripping them of their children, killing them or making them Tranquil at the first sign of forbidden magic?

 

The Qunari are Lawful in the extreme, but are they evil? I seriously doubt we can be so affirmative.

[HoonDing]

But how is that more evil than keeping the mages in a golden cage, stripping them of their children, killing them or making them Tranquil at the first sign of forbidden magic?

You reminded me of how I always wished to kill the Chantry hag that spouted "Magic exists only to serve man, not to rule over him" each time I passed by the Chantry in Denerim.

[Maria Caliban]

Alignment is so, like, last century in RPG behaviour paradigms.

 

Let's all move on.

 

No.

 

The Qunari are Lawful in the extreme, but are they evil? I seriously doubt we can be so affirmative.

 

 

[Oner]

Do they have some kind of cannon fodder allies?

[Sannom]

But how is that more evil than keeping the mages in a golden cage, stripping them of their children, killing them or making them Tranquil at the first sign of forbidden magic?

You reminded me of how I always wished to kill the Chantry hag that spouted "Magic exists only to serve man, not to rule over him" each time I passed by the Chantry in Denerim.

 

Oh come on, those two are hilarious Especially the old one, I can't make up my mind whether she just had a poor memory or purposely butchered the Chant

 

Edited February 26, 2010 by Sannom

[RPGmasterBoo]

From my limited knowledge of the Qunari I don't see them being evil at all. They're just a spartan sort of society.

 

Flinging good and evil labels on everything is the road to a stupid and shallow setting. Hence I agree with Monty - alignments were ridiculous from the start and are not getting any better. Take a lesson from the Witcher - most people should be self serving and egoistical with the occasional decent person to stand out from bleak reality. Not to mention the clever twist that most if not all of Sapkowski's monsters are created out of human failings - not evil by themselves.

 

This "Qunari are evil" cheapens the whole idea. DA's universe, as pedestrian as it is does not have to devolve into the Forgotten Realms nonsense.

[Raithe]

That's always the trouble.. "honor" is defined by the culture...

[Enoch]

That's always the trouble.. "honor" is defined by the culture...

Unlike "evil."

 

Oh, wait...

[Tigranes]

Oh come on, those two are hilarious laughing.gif Especially the old one, I can't make up my mind whether she just had a poor memory or purposely butchered the Chant laughing.gif

 

Given her involvement in a particular quest, I suspect that it's just a cover. Which is quite brilliant, actually, one of the places where I appreciated DA's writing.

[Volourn]

"Interesting point, but I'm going to have to disagree that plot interactivity mechanics are "gameplay". A fundamental part of games is challenge, or more accurately, the ability to lose the game. You can choose a way of conducting your character that will lead to the worst possible set of consequences, but you cannot very well "lose"."

 

No. 'Plot interactity mechanics' are gameplay. The fact there is interactivity makesn it so. From your description only combat and puzzles could be gameplay. That's silly talk. And, yes, you can 'lose'.

 

 

Qunari are evil. Their so called honour is pathetic. Sten is supposed to eb some sort of 'ideal' yet fails at massive levels. HE SLAUGHTERED AN ENTIRE FAMILY BECAUSE HE WENT EMO OVER HSI LOST SWORD. How is that not evil? And, I doubt he's unique in that course of action amongst his people. Then he tries to take over the party simply because the PC isn't 'moving fast enough' despite the fact you saved his behind. What a pathetic tool. My biggest regret of my 'goody' PC was actually feeling sorry for him. I got screwed and so did the rest of the world because I ahd a notion Sten was redeemable. He isn't. He's pond scum. Plain, and simple.

 

 

 

" Awakening looks to have epic level nonsense. "

 

How so? You are thinking so D&Dish. The term doesn't really work well for DA,a nd the new talents they've shown so far are exactly sounding more pwoerful than current ones. You alreayd get to level 20+ in DAO. *shrug*

 

 

"To make a game like MotB means you're willing to take the risk of creating a major financial failure.":

 

Nope. Doubtful. Expansions are relatively cheap to produce comapred to a full game, and you alreayd have a built in audince. It's almost impossible for an expansion to fail unless you make an expansion for a game that already failed which would be dumb.

 

 

"We know that the developers had a limited budget and it was rushed out because the longer you wait for an xpac, the less profitable it will be."

 

Second half is true. A isn't being rushed. It's alreayd been in development for a year. btw, That's as long as some full games, and half as long as most. And, I doubt A has a 'limited' budgetd. It probably has a lessder budget that DAO did; but that's obvious for so many reasons. The price tag is lower, you cna't epxect it to sell MORE than DAO. IE. DAO has sold 3.2 mil copies so far, and DAA will likely sell, at best, 60-80% of that. So, thisn has to be taken into account. But, limited? Nah, not in the strictest sense of that word.

 

 

"Origins and Awakening are designed to show the (magical) evolution of, for lack of a better term, orcs on Thedas."

 

Darkspawn are not orcs! Are DA ogres = orcs now? How about the archdemon when is basically a darkspawn? Or the Children?How aboutt he boobie broodmother? Is she an orc? Darkspawn do not equal orcs. Sorry, it's true.

 

Otherwise, I tend to agree, we will likely see the darkspawn 'evolve' over the course of the games. Sounds cool to me.