Dragon Age: Tactics

[Monte Carlo]

^ My bad.

 

I'd go coercion, it can have lots of uses.

 

You can scam an elf messenger who you'll find talking to the Ash Warriors in camp, near the King's tent. Talk to him and he'll ask you if you are the person he needs to deliver a sword to. Of course, you say yes and that's it. Probably a coercion and / or cunning check.

[Gromnir]

Yeah, but you don't get 3 attacks while setting up backstabs. Probably one. It's really easy to get into flanking position (and if you start off with a stun attack, you get there automatically). Besides it isn't extremely relevant against goons. DPS matters most against bosses, where three attacks won't cut it by a long shot.

 

am gonna disagree 'bout the number o' attacks. really. Gromnir has compared a dozen times, and with momentum we is easily able to see three attack totals leap off the screen as zev shifts to get a backstab opp. and in boss battles you is even less likely to get your 100% backstabs. dragons and revenants do not let Gromnir sit on their arse all day long. some significant portion o' attacks will be against unflankable opponents, or 'gainst critters who immediate turn on you when you try and flank. the improved attack rating makes a big difference... particularly as cone of cold duration has been reduced. being frozen meant that boss were immobile but still target worthy.

 

btw, on hard and against bosses, Gromnir is never able to get use of the taunting and force-field protected tank tactic some people utilize. this would be another great boon for achieving a higher rate of backstabs, but am never able to pull off. against mobs we will has stoneheart enabled shale run in to some target rich environment, use taunt, and then spam the area with area effect spells after we protect shale with a forcefield. that way even if there is archers or spell catsers who is able to continue to move/attack, they will focus on shale.

 

...

 

you know what happens when we use force field on shale 'gainst dragons and revenants? we effective take shale out of the fight... even if we used stone roar. am wondering if there is some step we is missing.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

ps to open the tranquil chest in ostagar you don't need coercion or stealing.

you may simply kill the prisoner and 1007 his corpse for the key. is not our preferred approach, but is probable the most simple and straightforward... and there not seem to be any repercussions neither.

 

 

 

Edited December 10, 2009 by Gromnir

[deganawida]

You can scam an elf messenger who you'll find talking to the Ash Warriors in camp, near the King's tent. Talk to him and he'll ask you if you are the person he needs to deliver a sword to. Of course, you say yes and that's it. Probably a coercion and / or cunning check.

 

Thanks! I always wondered if there was a point to Pick...

[Gromnir]

You can scam an elf messenger who you'll find talking to the Ash Warriors in camp, near the King's tent. Talk to him and he'll ask you if you are the person he needs to deliver a sword to. Of course, you say yes and that's it. Probably a coercion and / or cunning check.

 

Thanks! I always wondered if there was a point to Pick...

 

you mean a purpose other than showing how poorly elves is treated? the sword is actually a solid get for so early in the game. our recollection is that it is tier 2 grey iron, gives +2 to attack and +10 to physical resistance. but am probable off on one o' those attributes.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[deganawida]

You can scam an elf messenger who you'll find talking to the Ash Warriors in camp, near the King's tent. Talk to him and he'll ask you if you are the person he needs to deliver a sword to. Of course, you say yes and that's it. Probably a coercion and / or cunning check.

 

Thanks! I always wondered if there was a point to Pick...

 

you mean a purpose other than showing how poorly elves is treated? the sword is actually a solid get for so early in the game. our recollection is that it is tier 2 grey iron, gives +2 to attack and +10 to physical resistance. but am probable off on one o' those attributes.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

Honestly, I found the servants in Castle Cousland, coupled with Iona's comment about how well Bryce Cousland treats his elves, a better example of the poor treatment of elves than Pick. Pick just came across as a village idiot whose only real use was as a gopher.

 

If Bio had followed up on that red-headed elven woman that the quartermaster asks you about, that might have been better. Imagine helping him find her, then she gets whipped. You step in to stop the whipping, and everyone turns on you because you don't seem to realize that whipping elves is good for them (NOT in an S&M fashion) and that what's being done is proper. Now that would have appropriately demonstrated how poorly off the elves are in Fereldan, IMO.

[HoonDing]

^ If you want to go with a plain cost / benefit analysis go locks - the junk you can pick up and sell will see you heading off to Lothering with up to 10 gold in your grubby mits.

 

A point in coercion will allow you to solve two quests IIRC in Ostagar, the mage's chest is particularly worthwhile (although you can also solve that one with stealing or coercion), the other gets you a nice early game longsword.

 

I went one point coercion / one point locks and got everything. I was a human noble though, but I didn't feel any rush to get momentum - early game dirty fighting and dual weapon sweep are pretty good.

Do you get more XP if you use Coercion, rather than simply killing the two schmucks?

[Gromnir]

You can scam an elf messenger who you'll find talking to the Ash Warriors in camp, near the King's tent. Talk to him and he'll ask you if you are the person he needs to deliver a sword to. Of course, you say yes and that's it. Probably a coercion and / or cunning check.

 

Thanks! I always wondered if there was a point to Pick...

 

you mean a purpose other than showing how poorly elves is treated? the sword is actually a solid get for so early in the game. our recollection is that it is tier 2 grey iron, gives +2 to attack and +10 to physical resistance. but am probable off on one o' those attributes.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

Honestly, I found the servants in Castle Cousland, coupled with Iona's comment about how well Bryce Cousland treats his elves, a better example of the poor treatment of elves than Pick. Pick just came across as a village idiot whose only real use was as a gopher.

 

If Bio had followed up on that red-headed elven woman that the quartermaster asks you about, that might have been better. Imagine helping him find her, then she gets whipped. You step in to stop the whipping, and everyone turns on you because you don't seem to realize that whipping elves is good for them (NOT in an S&M fashion) and that what's being done is proper. Now that would have appropriately demonstrated how poorly off the elves are in Fereldan, IMO.

 

am agreeing that the elf origins and human origins do a better job with introducing us to elf lore, but you understandably get 0 elf background in either of the dwarf origins. no doubt the developers felt compelled to give the player some elf background considering they may possibly have received 0 up to that point. you are able to get some commentary from the ash warriors regarding elves... and from the quartermaster. is all kinda pick related.

 

"Do you get more XP if you use Coercion, rather than simply killing the two schmucks?"

 

am not sure 'bout those examples. it were our impression that using coercion typically robbed Gromnir of easy 1007 and experience. however, am certain that the red oars mercenaries resolution netted us more exp through coercion than combat. were actual kinda surprising.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

btw, we just had a chance to recheck tainted blade. no wonder the numbers is borked. with starfang and the dead thaig dagger we gots observable base damage o' 40.5 main hand and 32.4 off hand. use tainted blade and the numbers immediate jump to 53.3 and 45.2. those numbers would be higher if we opted for some slight different equipment, but Gromnir has been putting all points into cunning for quite some time, and current adjusted cunning is 50. also, we don't use all our runes as damage runes... makes far more sense to use paralyze runes. so base damage is a bit more important for us. however, keeps in mind that morrigan, with every cold boosting damage item we can find, typically produces a blizzard that is doing 9 points o' damage to enemies every few seconds. tainted blade is doing 10 points o' damage to our character at the same/similar rate. our character is a dwarf so he naturally has a slight higher con score than other rogues, but even so, our initial impression regarding tainted blade is reinforced. should not be part of the equation although it Signifficantly boosts the cunning builds dps.

Edited December 10, 2009 by Gromnir

[Monte Carlo]

IIRC the game is being consistent with regards to the Crimson Oars quests - the guard sergeant asks you to resolve the matter peacefully if possible. Ergo you should get more XP for doing so.

[Oner]

IIRC you don't get XP for killing the thugs in the pearl nor for scaring them away. Maybe when you turn the quest in (didn't check that), but not immediately.

[Gromnir]

IIRC the game is being consistent with regards to the Crimson Oars quests - the guard sergeant asks you to resolve the matter peacefully if possible. Ergo you should get more XP for doing so.

 

 

the sergeant doesn't care about the oars. he tells you Not to kill the mercs in the pearl, but he leaves matters up to you regarding the oars.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Volourn]

Numbers crunching isn't a MMORPG. BG2/NWN/any other D&D also had the numbers crunching thing going on. *shrug* Anyone whose played pnp has alsos een their share of number crunchers so it's silly to base it on one particular group. Heck, i like to number crunch and I'm no MMORPG player. And, as evidenced, plenty of people here as well.

[Spider]

btw, we just had a chance to recheck tainted blade. no wonder the numbers is borked. with starfang and the dead thaig dagger we gots observable base damage o' 40.5 main hand and 32.4 off hand. use tainted blade and the numbers immediate jump to 53.3 and 45.2. those numbers would be higher if we opted for some slight different equipment, but Gromnir has been putting all points into cunning for quite some time, and current adjusted cunning is 50. also, we don't use all our runes as damage runes... makes far more sense to use paralyze runes. so base damage is a bit more important for us. however, keeps in mind that morrigan, with every cold boosting damage item we can find, typically produces a blizzard that is doing 9 points o' damage to enemies every few seconds. tainted blade is doing 10 points o' damage to our character at the same/similar rate. our character is a dwarf so he naturally has a slight higher con score than other rogues, but even so, our initial impression regarding tainted blade is reinforced. should not be part of the equation although it Signifficantly boosts the cunning builds dps.

 

In the calculations, tainted blade is put at 0.2 points/cunning. So in order to get the effects you describe you'd need somewhere along the lines of 65 cunning. Now, it's entirely possible that the actual effect is higher than what is used in the calculations.

 

Regardless, the dual dagger cunning build would still beat any strength build.

 

I still agree that a comparison without tainted blade would be more interesting.

 

In regards to backstab, for me Shale managed to hold aggro most of the time against bosses, when I used Stone Roar. And if not, they'd typically go after the mages before the rogue. And while dragons did use all kinds of knock back attacks, I was still doing backstabs 90% of the time, since they kept using their front attack on Shale. Except the High Dragon, that one turned and took a big bite out of my rogue, after downing Wynne on it's first decent. But after that Morrigan and Shale took care of business. But that's the only time I can recall a boss ignored Shale for my character.

[Enoch]

Except the High Dragon, that one turned and took a big bite out of my rogue, after downing Wynne on it's first decent.

Descent?

 

Did the dragon fly around when you guys were fighting it? That would've been pretty cool-- it stayed put for me.

[~Di]

What is this "tainted blade" of which we speak? Is it just a blade coated with some kind of poison, or is there an uber-weapon by that name that my poor rogue managed to miss in our first playthrough?

[Gromnir]

Except the High Dragon, that one turned and took a big bite out of my rogue, after downing Wynne on it's first decent.

Descent?

 

Did the dragon fly around when you guys were fighting it? That would've been pretty cool-- it stayed put for me.

 

yeah.... "cool." it were not so cool when Gromnir managed to freeze said lizard in mid-air... just out of reach of our melee combatants. is ssssooooo wrong that a gargantuan frozen lizard would float likes a Thanksgiving Day Parade balloon, laughing silently both at Gromnir and gravity.

 

if Di has soldier's peak dlc, then you gets an alice in wonderland "drink me" option... choke down dr. mengele's secret formula and gain some extra super-powers... powers Gromnir never genuine made use of in the game.

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited December 11, 2009 by Gromnir

[Aristes]

I don't even have the DLC for the one pass. I thought I had it as part of the steam purchase, but I guess not.

 

That

High Dragon

was a long battle, but I never even had anyone go down. In fact, I made it back to back to camp before I realized that I hadn't summoned the damned thing, so I ran my sorry backside up the mountain and had my epic battle. It took a while, but we had our way.

 

Okay, really quick, any reason to make Leliana a ranger? Since I don't like having to go back all the time, I take her more and more on my initial forays.

[Oner]

The pets can get annoying in tight spaces, but otherwise I found them useful.

[Tigranes]

Pets are really useful if she's the only one standing. Otherwise, better off using the stamina on abilities.

[HoonDing]

Except the High Dragon, that one turned and took a big bite out of my rogue, after downing Wynne on it's first decent.

Descent?

 

Did the dragon fly around when you guys were fighting it? That would've been pretty cool-- it stayed put for me.

I killed it by the Taunt + Force Field trick, so the Dragon didn't fly around. Only when I tried to kill it in the conventional way, it did.

[Spider]

It didn't fly around for me either, but it did come swooping down at first. So it was the first and only descent that took out Wynne.

[Enoch]

Maybe the dragon's behavior depends a bit on where you are when you summon it. My group happened to be standing in the narrow part of the path, close to the entrance to the Gauntlet. The rock walls on either side of the path there might be too close for swooping.

[Monte Carlo]

I am 85% of the way through with my human rogue, it's been good fun, recommend it to anybody looking for something a bit different from tanking and spell-slinging.

 

I am doing one more playthrough then I think I'll be giving it a rest. This one will be a two-handed weapon specialist - seen some interesting posts about this on the Bio boards. The mentat POV over thereis that the trick is how you use the talents as much as the build - we shall see. There is a Maul which apparently is a bit of a win button, too.

 

What origin would you all suggest - was sorely tempted to go dwarf but apparently you don't get a lot of feedback in Orzammar. Which would be pretty poor, given the strength of those two origin stories. How do the elf ones play out throughout the game?

 

Cheers

MC

[Aristes]

I summoned her in the middle of the place, since that was all I was there to do at that point and I want room to get party members away from her depending on where she landed. Caster need some space, after all. She swooped down initially and stood at the bottom of the stairs leading up to the ruins and never lifted off again. I guess you could say that I used the taunt+force field trick, but I didn't use forcefield until about halfway to the battle and I only used it a total of two, maybe three times between the two mages who can cast it. Otherwise, the tank just quaffed healing pots and the mages healed and or smote as the situation demanded.

 

I'm almost tempted to take an earlier save and see if it happens differently in some other setup, although I don't know why I wouldn't have Alistair tank since that's his purpose in the party. The dragon would probably have knocked someone out or even wiped the party if she could pick off the mages in a row. Alistair wasn't going to win that battle solo.

 

Anyhow, it's probably not even worth it to get Ranger for Leliana at this point. I don't know what all the ranger class does, but what I'm getting from you guys is that it entails summoning pets who will only frustrate me by running into AoE spells.

 

However, I'm positive that I want Alistair to try the Champion class. The description seems to indicate it's a great one for a tank. Plus,

it looks as if he's going to end up king and so he could use some leadership training.

Anyone know where I can get the training for him?

 

How do the elf ones play out throughout the game?

I can't see why anyone would want to spend one extra second among the elves. I'm playing one now and I even despise myself for it.

Edited December 11, 2009 by Aristes

[Monte Carlo]

^ Aristes, you only unlock the Champion by completing the Arl Eamon quest cycle - i.e. Redcliffe Village / Castle / Urn of Sacred Ashes!

 

There's a lot of elf hate here. Yeah, the DA elves are pretty pathetic. The Dalish should have been feral, revenge-driven psycho barbarians, that would have been more fun.

[Oner]

However, I'm positive that I want Alistair to try the Champion class. The description seems to indicate it's a great one for a tank. Plus,

it looks as if he's going to end up king and so he could use some leadership training.

Anyone know where I can get the training for him?

Eamon, if you get the extra good ending at Redcliffe castle. Or Loghain. Maybe a book, dunno where.