Obsidian making Fallout: New Vegas

[Gorth]

Start of previous thread

 

End of old thread

 

Let there be speculation, wishes, desires and cafes of broken dreams...

[CoM_Solaufein]

Spam removed.

 

Hey how about that VATS, its just wonderful.

 

Obsidian needs to make sure they have some great music from the 40's and 50's like F3 did.

 

How about voice actors?

[Promethean]

We just finished going over why VATS is definitely not wonderful.

[Zoma]

J.E's possible choice of song:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncTSipsee7I

[Pop]

How about voice actors?

I suppose they could get a Name if Bethsoft is willing to shell for one, but I'd expect seasoned character / voice / nerd legacy actors, if anything. Oblivion and Fallout 2 both had TNG actors in them, President Richardson (was that his name?) was voiced by Jeffrey Jones, the principal in Ferris Bueller's Day Off. Malcolm McDowell was well used in F3.

 

I don't remember any of Obsidz' other games having any real Names in them, just pro VAs. This is the case with AP. I'd expect that into the future.

Edited April 26, 2009 by Pop

[Promethean]

How about voice actors?

I suppose they could get a Name if Bethsoft is willing to shell for one, but I'd expect seasoned character / voice / nerd legacy actors, if anything. Oblivion and Fallout 2 both had TNG actors in them, President Richardson (was that his name?) was voiced by Jeffrey Jones, the principal in Ferris Bueller's Day Off. Malcolm McDowell was well used in F3.

 

I don't remember any of Obsidz' other games having any real Names in them, just pro VAs. This is the case with AP. I'd expect that into the future.

 

Pro VAs is money better spent IMO

[Maria Caliban]

VATS is wonderful. I love VATS and VATS loves me.

[TwinkieGorilla]

screw voice actors. that money is better spent elsewhere. if Bethie didn't spend all that cash on a lame duck like Liam Neeson they could have afforded one more "monkey with a typewriter" (Mr. Hines' words) and come up with dialogue which actually did the series justice. i mean...man, maybe it's because i'm old-school, but i don't even have the patience for voice acting. i read quicker than they speak and i just click past it all anyway. it's one of the worst and most overused areas of modern RPG's.

[CoM_Solaufein]

Obsidian has had a history (also when they were involved with Black Isle Studios) of hiring great voice actors for the most part. NWN2 came up short in that but Kotor2 had some good well known voice actors. They don't need to be big name movie stars.

[Promethean]

They dont need to be well known. They just need to fit the character, actually project some semblance of emotion and not do weird pauses like whoever did Carth Onasi

[Gorth]

I don't remember any of Obsidz' other games having any real Names in them, just pro VAs. This is the case with AP. I'd expect that into the future.

?

 

In Kotor2:

Kreia/Sarah Kestelmann

Visas/kelly Hu

Atton/Nicky Katt

Bao Dur/Roger Guenveur Smith

Vrook/Edward Asner

Disciple/Greg Ellis

 

Who all have a list of movies and/or tv series to their name.

 

The "Oddest" one there is probably "Mira" (Emily Berry) who is credited for a single role before being cast. All her work (that she is credited for) is as a producer.

 

NWN2 has indeed a long list of people with short career lists (at least on imdb). The only one that stood out while checking was Ammon Jerro/Murphy Guyer

 

I wonder how the casting process works for video games...

[Wombat]

I thought at least some people in this forum may mention the reputation system of Jefferson aka BIS version of the Black Hound but, since no body mentioned, I'll link Porject Jefferson page by Sammael. You can see some ideas around the reputation system, such as regional/factional reputations, fame/infamy and epithets in the gamplay section.

 

Probably, it should be noted that Jefferson's reputation system was quite complex* and the time passed after J.E.Sawyer posted these ideas. So, we most likely cannot the expect the exact same thing in FO:Vegas and/or other upcoming games but you may take a glance at how J.E.Sawyer was thinking about reputation system. Also, J.E.Swayer, if he feels like to, may give us his insights/opinions about the reputation system of Jefferson since it's not directly related with FO:Vegas.

 

*It's so complex and comprehensive that even Chris Avellon was burnt out by writing a part of dialogues according to J.E.Sawyer.

[Malcador]

VATS is wonderful. I love VATS and VATS loves me.

 

VATS is ok, I don't mind being able to stop and aim for a body part. But the bugs in it where you'll empty a burst into the wall that you thought you were clear of, and that silly slow-motion display annoy me to no end.

[Jaesun]

-You fight the good fight

-[intelligence]You fight the good fight

 

Thankfully we wont see these abominations in F:NV.

 

Looking forward to:

- A decent story/plot

- Well written dialogues (with actually appropriate skill checks)

- A possible tweaking of VATS

- ACTUAL choice and Consequences

- People don't forget you did something completely awful..... in a few hours

- Slower XP gain

- Perks not gained EVERY LEVEL

- Multiple ways to achieve objectives, perhaps Skill based... etc (READ replayability)

- No lab coats that give you +5 to science

 

THIS would make me a happy man, for starters.

[Promethean]

I thought at least some people in this forum may mention the reputation system of Jefferson aka BIS version of the Black Hound but, since no body mentioned, I'll link Porject Jefferson page by Sammael. You can see some ideas around the reputation system, such as regional/factional reputations, fame/infamy and epithets in the gamplay section.

 

Probably, it should be noted that Jefferson's reputation system was quite complex* and the time passed after J.E.Sawyer posted these ideas. So, we most likely cannot the expect the exact same thing in FO:Vegas and/or other upcoming games but you may take a glance at how J.E.Sawyer was thinking about reputation system. Also, J.E.Swayer, if he feels like to, may give us his insights/opinions about the reputation system of Jefferson since it's not directly related with FO:Vegas.

 

*It's so complex and comprehensive that even Chris Avellon was burnt out by writing a part of dialogues according to J.E.Sawyer.

 

sadface

 

How much of the dialogue was actually completed for the project?

[Hurlshort]

It would be more constructive if we came to terms with what will not be changed in Fallout: NV. Here is a list:

 

1. Graphics (same engine)

2. Gameplay (including VATS)

 

 

That may seem severe, but lo and behold, there are plenty of other important things for Obsidian to put their marks on.

 

1. Story

2. Setting

3. New characters

4. Maybe new perks

[Mikhailian]

Alright, this is my first post at Obsidian, so hello and whatnot. Firstly, I appologize for any text-wallishness, and when I repeat previously mentioned sentiments (as I know I will) just file them as another vote for or against something.

 

Things I'd like to see Obsidian improv/add to Fallout in FO:NV

 

*Vast and open wastes. It would be nice to really get that huge and barren desert wasteland feel, where walking somewhere actually takes awhile.

*Mobs should be be spread further apart in the wastes and be larger in size. It would bring a bit more excitement when they're encountered.

*A scavenger hunt for parts that ends in a player driven vehicle; it doesn't have to be fast or handle like roadster, maybe a jeep equivalent or semi.

*Long range shooting needs tweaking. As is fired bullets don't follow any known logic. At long ranges the tend to arc up and go through targets w/o harming.

*Weapon/armour deterioration needs to be reworked or dropped entirely. If it stayed in, the rate needs to be like 1/5 - 1/10 what it's at.

 

*Bring back damage types, damage thresholds, and armour class. As it stands, armour barely does anything at all. People in PA should be formidable.

*Bring back ammo types and expand the selection a bit. Deerslugs, Hi-Ex, and flechette rounds would help make shotguns relevant against good armour.

*Bring back classic weapons and armour, and list the applicable damage/rof/damagetype/resist/threshold in a more informative inventory screen.

*This one is a little weird... The old pipboy (if you even get one). It was straight foreward, displayed things more efficiently, and didn't conflict with armour.

*This one may be a bit contentious... Tribals. Maori tattoos, bone jewelry, spears and bow n' arrow, huts and so forth. Maybe just a small village or two.

 

*Vegas doesn't have a subway that I'm aware of, so we shouldn't have to crawl through tunnels that connect different city worldspaces. Keep it more open.

*NPCs that use drugs, and drugs that have more sideffects.

*Experience, levels, Special, stats, and perks that operate the way they used to.

*Introduce selectable backstory, and reintroduce traits.

*gambling, and a better prostitute interaction. I don't need to see it happen, but a little fade to black with some dialogue couldn't hurt.

 

My last two require a bit of explaination, so down here they'll go...

 

*An over-head turn-based option. This may be entirely undoable within a reasonable time frame with 3/4 overhead view and point and click interface, but the turn-based thing already has a proof of concept in the modding comunity. It's not a very elegant solution the way it's implemented, but it's pretty good considering the lack of source code. It's here if you want to give it a shot: http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=4446

It's not my intention that fpp player's should be forced to play this, just that it's an option for those that prefer it.

 

*My last one I promise (suprised if you read this far). NPCs need an overhaul. The voice acting in FO3 may have been a level above Oblivion, but I still don't think it was very good. Sometimes it was because of repeated use of an actor with a very destinctive voice for different characters. Othertimes it was because far too many of voice actors sound like they belong in a medieval (or tes) setting. And still other times it was the dialogue itself. There is a fairly consistant lack of flavour for many of the characters. Almost everyone seems well spoken and educated despite their circumstances, and with those that are portraid otherwise it seems forced and contrived. Where are all the illiterate, ignorant, and bigoted people? Where are the belligerent knuckleheads? Furthermore, the characters that are supposed to be intelligent don't really reflect that in their dialogue. They're usually on the same level as the average wastelander, just more arrogant. Not once did anything spoken in FO3 go over my head, but more than few things landed me with a headache for alltogether different reasons.

 

Sorry for all that. The end.

[bhlaab]

If New Vegas sticks with VATS instead of, say, having a fully turn based system (cough)... I would definiately like to see VATS expanded a lot. Like instead of zooming in on the enemy, it goes into a sattelite view of the battlefield and you can do a lot more than just shoot. Like spend AP to move around with frozen enemies, make a choice between normal and targeted shots, use items, change your stance, choose between burst and single fire, and reload (It was SUCH a pain to not be able to reload your weapon manually in VATS) Also rebalance the damage modifiers and keep the enemies from moving around during VATS. There was nothing more aggrivating than having a 95% chance at your shots and not making any of them because the **** ducked behind a wall.

 

There is a modder at NMA who has been working on a huge megamod, and he's working on a lot of other interesting things like making enemies have a set amount of ammo to expend and action points. He also happened to do a pretty substantial rewrite of the AI so all of that working together means the bad guys no longer just charge at you and unload-- one of the absoloute biggest problems with Fo3's combat. In realtime it just looks ridiculous and stupid and plays cheap. I know in the short-ish turn around time for new vegas not a whole lot can be addressed about rewriting entire routines, but something needs to be done.

[player1]

If anythings, VATS should not look like "old-school" bloody mess with every single critical.

 

No, pistol bullet can't severe the head. Not every ghoul needs his head to explode when using shotgun either.

 

Leave ridiculous violence to actual Bloody Mess perk/trait.

[Wombat]

I thought at least some people in this forum may mention the reputation system of Jefferson aka BIS version of the Black Hound but, since no body mentioned, I'll link Porject Jefferson page by Sammael. You can see some ideas around the reputation system, such as regional/factional reputations, fame/infamy and epithets in the gamplay section.

 

Probably, it should be noted that Jefferson's reputation system was quite complex* and the time passed after J.E.Sawyer posted these ideas. So, we most likely cannot the expect the exact same thing in FO:Vegas and/or other upcoming games but you may take a glance at how J.E.Sawyer was thinking about reputation system. Also, J.E.Swayer, if he feels like to, may give us his insights/opinions about the reputation system of Jefferson since it's not directly related with FO:Vegas.

 

*It's so complex and comprehensive that even Chris Avellon was burnt out by writing a part of dialogues according to J.E.Sawyer.

 

sadface

 

How much of the dialogue was actually completed for the project?

That may seem severe, but lo and behold, there are plenty of other important things for Obsidian to put their marks on.

 

1. Story

2. Setting

3. New characters

Even if it just turns out that FO:V feels like just an expansion of FO3 with recycled graphics and game-play, that would suffice to me, especially since I haven't played FO3. At least, I cannot expect these factors in Bethesda's works. The last story-focused expansion by Bethesda was, TES IV: Shivering Isles, even which I haven't played. All the Fallout expansions don't seem to be praised of these essences.

[Aristes]

Mikhailian, you have some great points. One in particular strikes me. There needs to be more variation in the dialogue.

 

I don't propose that characters themselves need to be particularly varied within their own voice. In literature of any sort, characters must be far more static than people are in real life. In some media, such as television, characters either don't change in any substantial way or change very slowly. In movies, the changes usually occur in dramatic moments of the film. Books, where the writer has more lattitude, allow for a more subtle and dynamic approach. Even so, books cannot have dynamic personality changes in a normal character to the same extent as real life. Computer games probably fall closest to Cinema or books, and so there is some opportunity for character development. Of course, before the howls become deafening, all literature must have some sort of character development. What I'm saying is that the characters must general be a lot more consistent than people in real life.

 

The upshot is, characters will be somewhat static because the folks writing the dialogue and story have limited opportunity to include substantial changes within a character, and so they must make their choices count.

 

However, between characters, there should be a lot of variation. Some of those characters might reinforce common stereotypes. That's not entirely terrible as long as it's well done. Others might challenge stereotypes. For example, a character with a deep southern accent who has an extensive scientific background. He might sound like a "southern hick" to the player at first, but his education and accomplishments come to light in some way. Another thing would be to have an extremely well educated, soft spoken, and urbane character who, somewhere along the line, demonstrates deep rooted bigotry. In fact, make that character sympathetic. He's a good guy and a friend of the character, but has a flaw that comes out of the blue and smacks the player in the face.

 

Along the same lines, while the characters might be largely static, they can certainly have multiple facets. That's the key, in my opinion. Just as important as, say, having a dramatic moment where one of the NPCs suddenly has a major change in character. Have a character with multiple motives and perhaps a personality quirk or two.

[Slowtrain]

It would be more constructive if we came to terms with what will not be changed in Fallout: NV. Here is a list:

 

1. Graphics (same engine)

2. Gameplay (including VATS)

 

 

JE is all ready on record in this very forum speaking about some of the flaws he perceives in VATS. He appears to consider it, in all directness, cheating. Or perhaps gamebreaking, is better, since it is hard to cheat in a single player game. I can't recall if eh used either of those exact words, but that was the upshot of his comments at the time. In other words, he thinks VATS is flawed. WHen last I heard he was playing using a stimpack mod, that changed stimpacks to do healing over time rather than all healing in one shot, in order to add challenge to the game.

 

If it were up to him, VATS would most definitely be changed, I think.

 

The question is, will Obs be ALLOWED to make those changes. No one has answered that question yet, so I think discussing the pros and cons of VATS is potentially very constructive.

[TwinkieGorilla]

It would be more constructive if we came to terms with what will not be changed in Fallout: NV. Here is a list:

 

1. Graphics (same engine)

2. Gameplay (including VATS)

 

VATS will most likely get a tweak. i just can't imagine Sawyer being completely ok with keeping it "as is" unless Bethie forces him into leaving it alone. though i do agree that the graphics engine and most other aspects of gameplay will remain unchanged.

 

That may seem severe, but lo and behold, there are plenty of other important things for Obsidian to put their marks on.

 

1. Story

2. Setting

3. New characters

4. Maybe new perks

 

let me add two things which are much more important to that list. picture them, if you will, appearing before your #1.

 

1) A properly implemented SPECIAL

2) well written and conceived Dialogue

[Ausir]

screw voice actors. that money is better spent elsewhere. if Bethie didn't spend all that cash on a lame duck like Liam Neeson they could have afforded one more "monkey with a typewriter" (Mr. Hines' words) and come up with dialogue which actually did the series justice. i mean...man, maybe it's because i'm old-school, but i don't even have the patience for voice acting. i read quicker than they speak and i just click past it all anyway. it's one of the worst and most overused areas of modern RPG's.

There's a difference between hiring celebrities for their name and good, but not necessarily famous voice actors.

[TwinkieGorilla]

There's a difference between hiring celebrities for their name and good, but not necessarily famous voice actors.

 

of course there is. Billy West (one of the greatest voice actors of all time) often talks about this problem

. that said, i still say that voice-acting is over-used in video games. Baldur's Gate II, imo, approached it well. use them for certain important bits, but not all the damn time.