Why do game devs and filmakers always feel the need to butcher original material?

[Kaftan Barlast]

Ive been playing RotA recently, Im about half way through the game and Im absolutely perplexed about the way the developers arbitrarily butcher Greek Mythology, completely without reason. It was the same, except much worse in Viking: battle of Asgard. There are plenty of other games and films who do this aswell.

 

 

But what is THE REASON that these people feel a compulsive urge to needlessly tamper with established mythology and history?

 

 

 

My favorite RotA tamperings thus far:

 

Jason is married to Alceme - In myth, Alceme was his mum. He married Medea.

Medusa is a priestess of Athena - In myth, she was a hideous gorgon and probably one of the worlds alltime best known monsters.

Mycenae is portrayed as some sort of klingon-like Ares-worshipping warriors city - In reality it was a perfectly ordinary city, that actually predates what we think of as the greek golden age. And by the time of the great greek heroes, it was just an abandoned ruin. Lycomedes was the king of Scyros, a small island on the greek east coast. He took supposedly took Achilles in as a sort of foster child. Also Gladiatorial combat is an Etruscan/Roman invention that the greeks didnt find much fun at all. They preferred wrestling and tossing things.

[Calax]

Probably because the characters as they were wouldn't fit into the game. Or they change things to make the game move smoothly. For example Too Human tried to give an updated version of norse characters. Problem is that sometimes trying to make a character sound like they're from the mythos while still telling a story that's styled contemporary, leads to some REALLY weird lines. The Medusa thing is terrible imho but then who knows what's going on in the minds of the devs during THOSE decisions.

[Rosbjerg]

Considering the source material I would say they are quite true to greek mythology - until Homer decided to write down the Illiad there were supposedly hundreds of interpretations where some characteres would swap places etc.

 

But I know what you are getting at - it's a time honoured tradition though, every generation reinvents the classic tales to fit the modern situation..

[Deadly_Nightshade]

But what is THE REASON that these people feel a compulsive urge to needlessly tamper with established mythology and history?

 

Because they want to make a quick buck?

[Aram]

They just get the wikipedia pages mixed up. Cut them some slack.

 

And how pissed off would you be if you got to the end of God of War and found out you couldn't kill Zeus because that messes with cannon. And you can't tear Zeus' assholish anti-atheist wall down though everything up to that point led you to believe that was the whole point.

[Volourn]

"But what is THE REASON that these people feel a compulsive urge to needlessly tamper with established mythology and history?"

 

L0L 'Established' mythology. Do you see how silly that reads? It's mythlogoy. It's not real. You say 'needless'; I say cool.

 

It's good to have different takes. Afterall, Hercules is either an overly violent drunk who murdered his family or the most heroic hero ever depending on who you asked and on what day you ask them. *shrug*

 

 

"And how pissed off would you be if you got to the end of God of War and found out you couldn't kill Zeus because that messes with cannon. And you can't tear Zeus' assholish anti-atheist wall down though everything up to that point led you to believe that was the whole point."

 

1. Sounds like an almost carbon copy of MOTB. HA!

2. Canon? We're taling about mythogy, right?

3. Nothing wrong with Zeus.

 

Anyways, Legend of Hercules and Xena: Warrior Princess show that one can mix things up mythology and even history wise and still be entertaining. It's all about entertainment. Mythology, by default, isn't set in stone.

 

 

History, on the other hand, is a little more tricky to switch up since we're dealing with things that actually exist; but it can be done. Xena/Hercules are good examples again of this.

[Tigranes]

Jason is married to Alceme - In myth, Alceme was his mum. He married Medea.

Medusa is a priestess of Athena - In myth, she was a hideous gorgon and probably one of the worlds alltime best known monsters.

Mycenae is portrayed as some sort of klingon-like Ares-worshipping warriors city - In reality it was a perfectly ordinary city, that actually predates what we think of as the greek golden age. And by the time of the great greek heroes, it was just an abandoned ruin. Lycomedes was the king of Scyros, a small island on the greek east coast. He took supposedly took Achilles in as a sort of foster child. Also Gladiatorial combat is an Etruscan/Roman invention that the greeks didnt find much fun at all. They preferred wrestling and tossing things.

 

Except for the Mycenae bit and gladiatorial combat, all the other ones would fit in quite snugly into the massive range of 'accepted' / 'authentic' ancient Greek interpretations and versions of their own mythology. The only problem is when the change serves no point and/or violates the spirit and atmosphere of the mythology - which, arguably, the Mycenae/gladiator differences can be said to have done.

 

Also, Zeus does die in at least one ancient interpretation of Greek myth. It's one of my favourite bits.

[Morgoth]

RotA was a reasonably fun game, but I knew from the beginning that it didn't follow the mythology.

 

Of course it would be neat to have an RPG that is close to the real deal, but hey, that would require talent and creativity, something that most devs these days just lack.

Edited January 2, 2009 by Morgoth

[Kaftan Barlast]

I think it would be pretty sweet if you had a game with the real Hercules as told in the greek legends. He did heroic things, but he also got angrydrunk and killed people by accident, slept with both men, women and goats, stole stuff etc. One of my faves is when he visits the Centaurs and forces them to serve him their finest ceremonial wine, whereupon he gets pissed drunk and starts a brawl where he injures the immortal centaur Chiron so badly that he gives up immortality just to get rid of the pain.

The Greeks didnt have this stupid one-dimensional view of characters that we do today. Hercules was both a hero and a total arse, at the same time. Most, if not all their legendary figures were like this.

 

 

 

A theory about the ineptitude of developers and filmmakers when it comes to dealing with mythology I just thought out is as follows: These people are both uneducated and stupid, and when confronted with the scope of greek of norse mythology, they become confused and see no other way to deal with this except to bend it into a shape they are familiar with. And since they have no knowledge of the subject, they cant tell which parts are vital to the myth, and that aggravates the butchery even more.

And thats how we end up with games like "Viking: Whatever" that take some elements fo the original setting and churn it through the familiar(to the stupids) meatgrinder of fantasy(swords and dungeons), resulting in a bland(although somewhat offensive to mythology buffs) and completely uninteresting goo of misconception.

 

Imagine if they would make a game about the bible this way:

 

 

-Ok, so yeah we're gonna make a game out of the bible and it has to be awesome.

-Whats the bible about?

-I dont know, people in the desert doing sh*t and stuff

-In the desert? What, are they muslims?!

-I dont know, probably I guess.

-That no-go territory, dude. We're gonna have to change that. What about like a jungle or something?

-A magic jungle! With dungeons and sh*t!

-Sweet!

-Yeah, ok so now we need a main character.

-Ok, Who is the hero in the bible?

-I think its Jesus.

-Jesus as the hero, yeah right like we could get that past the ESRB! Wed get totally sued by the church and sh*t too!

-Theres a guy called David in the first part though, or Daniel.. Im not sure

-Thats not a cool name, I know a guy called Dan.

-There's Moses too.

-Moses is even worse! Its like totally jewish and you know that doesnt test well.

-Ok, so how about we call him like Frodo or Sauron or something instead?

-What about Maximus? Like in gladiator? Its friggin maxed-out huhu

-Yeah! Thats a sweet name... he could be like Maximus Hyperdrive!

-SWEEEEETNESS!!

-Maximus Hyperdrive in the magic jungle. So what kind of sh*t does he fight?

-Terrorists?

-Orcs!

-Monsters!

-I liked the like totally zombie twisted monsters in Deep Space we could have that?

-Ooh, man I love the way you think. Zombie-Monsters it is.

-Ok, so are we done here or what? I gotta go play squash with Cliffy B after lunch

-Yeah, I think we're done.

-Cool. This game is gonna rock, see ya!

[Pidesco]

I wonder how Dante's Inferno is going to turn out.

[Morgoth]

These people are both uneducated and stupid, and when confronted with the scope of greek of norse mythology, they become confused and see no other way to deal with this except to bend it into a shape they are familiar with. And since they have no knowledge of the subject, they cant tell which parts are vital to the myth, and that aggravates the butchery even more.

I think what many story-tellers of contemporary mediums, and game designers/writers in particular lack these days is some decent life experience that goes beyond your typical living room activities. You can't expect something refreshingly good if the only thing people are drawing inspiration from are other popular games and techniques used from the Hollywood kitchen.

Designing games is a learning process, learning means experiencing and experimanting through hard work. That means both learning skills with the technology and available toolset, but it also means important soft skills like knowledge in story telling, drawing story boards and having a vast background of different areas, most importantly basic knowledge of history and politics for starters, and more importantly how you can derive information and process it in a creative way so that it enriches your product.

[Morgoth]

I wonder how Dante's Inferno is going to turn out.

Coming from the team that made the shallow Dead Space, I'm not expecting something worthwhile.

[Kaftan Barlast]

I wonder how Dante's Inferno is going to turn out.

 

 

Its gonna be awesome... wooooooooieeee!!!! *blasts mephistofeles head of with a bazooka*

[Pidesco]

I wonder how Dante's Inferno is going to turn out.

Coming from the team that made the shallow Dead Space, I'm not expecting something worthwhile.

 

 

I dunno, if they went for as dumb as possible, yet very self-aware, it could work.

[taks]

Medusa is a priestess of Athena - In myth, she was a hideous gorgon and probably one of the worlds alltime best known monsters.

according to the wiki, a version of the myth written by ovid (a roman) had medusa starting out as a priestess of athena and she got raped by poseidon. jealous athena then transformed her into the monster. i had heard this version before but was not sure where from.

 

not that i don't think game devs tinker a bit, or that it's not a bad thing (sometimes it irks me, too), but you can't really blame this one on them.

 

taks

Edited January 2, 2009 by taks

[Volourn]

"real Hercules"

 

HAHAHAHA!

[theslug]

"real Hercules"

 

HAHAHAHA!

Just imagine Kevin Sorbo doing the voice work....omg

 

I think my under-roo's would spontaneously combust.

[Hell Kitty]

Weren't you a part of American McGee's butchering of Grimm's Fairy Tales?

[Walsingham]

I can't wait to see the Hollywood version of these forums. I'll be evil, of course.

[Blarghagh]

I'm sorry but I think people can do with the material whatever the hell they like. Fine, it's not the same as it was. If every story was told the same way every time there would be no reason to tell the story. I hate elitists who think their chosen fandom needs protection or somesuch dumb concept. Yes, fandom. Your fandom might be mythology and therefore somehow more "respected" or whatever, eventually you're still just that Power Rangers fanboy who never gets anything useful done because he's too busy bitching about the latest retcon.

 

What I don't get it that this bitching stops if the changes make it better. "omg you cant change that!" "but... it works better this way..." "hey cool".

Edited January 3, 2009 by TrueNeutral

[Kaftan Barlast]

Its ok to make other versions of something when there is quality and some meaning with your revision. But what these people do is just piss all over the source material for no apparent reason whatsoever. Its like their parents forgot to tell them "Dont try to ****ing fix it if it isnt broken, dumbass!"

 

IT MAKES ME ANGRY RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH *kaftan smashes*

 

 

I can't wait to see the Hollywood version of these forums. I'll be evil, of course.

 

And I will be probably be played by Chris Rock. I hate Chris Rock. I want Will Ferrel.

 

 

...Volo will be played by Julia Roberts because that makes no sense, so it must be brilliant...

Edited January 3, 2009 by Gorth
Circumventing language filter

[Meshugger]

I wonder how Dante's Inferno is going to turn out.

 

Wait what? A game or a movie?

[Rosbjerg]

A game - the gamespot site here.

[Darth InSidious]

These people are both uneducated and stupid, and when confronted with the scope of greek of norse mythology, they become confused and see no other way to deal with this except to bend it into a shape they are familiar with. And since they have no knowledge of the subject, they cant tell which parts are vital to the myth, and that aggravates the butchery even more.

I think what many story-tellers of contemporary mediums, and game designers/writers in particular lack these days is some decent life experience that goes beyond your typical living room activities. You can't expect something refreshingly good if the only thing people are drawing inspiration from are other popular games and techniques used from the Hollywood kitchen.

Designing games is a learning process, learning means experiencing and experimanting through hard work. That means both learning skills with the technology and available toolset, but it also means important soft skills like knowledge in story telling, drawing story boards and having a vast background of different areas, most importantly basic knowledge of history and politics for starters, and more importantly how you can derive information and process it in a creative way so that it enriches your product.

This. Why do you think there are so many RPGs that have the same tired dialogue, plot, fedex-quests, etc.? Because the authors have nothing else to draw upon.

 

And if you think the Hollywood-esque mangling is bad for classical and norse mythology, you haven't seen what they do to Egyptian theology. The mistakes usually begin with 'X was the god of Y'...

Edited January 3, 2009 by Darth InSidious

[Guard Dog]

I wonder how Dante's Inferno is going to turn out.

 

Wait what? A game or a movie?

 

Ah this has been done before: http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Modul...ail&id=3396