BREAKING NEWS: FALLOUT 3 TO FEATURE TEXT

[Llyranor]

While Morrowind and Oblivion may lead you to believe otherwise, the devs at Bethesda are actually capable of writing text, irrespective of quality. Here's an article on that!

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/3775...ritage_the_.php

 

The closest area of scrutiny for those expectations is likely the game's prose, and so for the first time in the studio's history, it assigned the title of lead writer -- a duty Pagliarulo considers parallel to his role as lead designer.

We really looked at Fallout 1 as our model. It's all about giving players a choice and giving the player the voice they want to use. We backed away from the stuff in Fallout 2, the more campy, pop culturey stuff.

 

We tried to stay away from trying to emulate anyone specifically. You know, [Fallout 2 co-designer] Chris Avellone -- fantastic writer; those are huge shoes to fill. You can't think about that too much. You'll become paralyzed.

Oh, sure. It's coming from such a low place. The thing with games and game writing -- you know, there's a sense that some people want to go from where we were two years ago to Hollywood level. It's not going to happen that quickly. You're starting to see really strong stories in games now, in Mass Effect, in BioShock.

 

I think story is important, but I'm much more interested in story that is told through gameplay, through the medium of games. BioShock does that incredibly well. Call of Duty 4 does that probably better than anyone. It's the old "show, don't tell" rule.

ROFL, Bioshock and CoD4 having good stories.

At Bethesda, we call them "lore bombs" -- you talk to an NPC, and they just drop 50 lines of dialogue on you. That's not the way to tell a story -- even in an RPG, with a lot of text.

 

I think there's a lot of room for better stories, but I think there's a lot of room for better storytelling. Look at Valve and Half-Life. Valve is the master of telling a story through their gameplay. And the Looking Glass model is a good model for me too. It's one I look back on.

 

Thief feels like an RPG, but there's no dialogue. Garrett never talked to anyone. The story was told through what you experience. I think there's a lot more you can do with that.

Braid

ROFLASLKJFSKALGJAKSGAKSGSAKGASG

 

Man, Braid.

[Moatilliatta]

In other news: Llyranor fails at reading comprehension.

 

It's ok though as it's a good interview.

 

And, yes, COD4 had a good story as in it told it well.

Edited September 19, 2008 by Moatilliatta

[Pop]

Braid was pretty impressive from a design perspective.

[Pidesco]

It's like everyone has a completely different standard of quality regarding writing in games. Imagine reading a book or seeing a movie done with Bioware's level of writing. It would be universally derided.

[Moatilliatta]

Braid was pretty impressive from a design perspective.

At times. The hiding some books in the epilogue, while interesting in regards to the game and it's theme, was something that I see as quite bad design.

 

The puzzles could also have used some work from time to time. Still probably some of the best from a indie developer.

[Tigranes]

so for the first time in the studio's history, it assigned the title of lead writer

 

What.

 

Anyway, actual examples please. Who's going to believe what they say after Oblivion?

[Moatilliatta]

It's like everyone has a completely different standard of quality regarding writing in games. Imagine reading a book or seeing a movie done with Bioware's level of writing. It would be universally derided.

Change book to TV-series and you might have a point. Bioware always points out that they see game writing and book writing to be very distinctly different and I tend to agree.

 

Games have more in common with TV-series in the way you write.

 

@Tigranes

See Shivering Isles, the exact example Emil mentions.

[Pidesco]

I'm not even talking about the methods or about integrating the writing with the game design. I'm talking about how the writing stands on its own. It's just ghastly. Exposition in Mass Effect, for example, is generally atrocious.

[Tigranes]

@Tigranes

See Shivering Isles, the exact example Emil mentions.

 

Ain't worth my money, 'cause my computer still can't run Oblivion properly and I found I was done with that game after the first 60+ playthrough.

 

Anyway, I've seen some of the Shivering Isles dialogue (with that crazy-ish King who is supposed to sound megalomaniac?) and of course the dialogue in Megaton. It looks.... Biowarian, except they tried too hard to be 'edgy' sometimes. i.e. It's generally to a decent standard and well-polished, but doesn't make the game or bring it up to another level like in FOs or Torment.

[Volourn]

"Exposition in Mass Effect, for example, is generally atrocious."

 

No.

[Killian Kalthorne]

As long as it is entertaining then its good. If it fails to entertain then it is bad. Its just a matter of opinion. If you don't like a game, then don't play it. If you like it, then play it. If you are unsure, rent it.

[Moatilliatta]

@Pidesco

I know what you mean.

 

All I was saying was that comparing Bioware's game writing to books in any way is loosing before you've even argued it as you can't seperate it that easily.

 

A better thing to do is look at the books they've written and compare them to other books.

 

@Tigranes

I've said it before and I'l gladly say it again: expecting anything but an elder scrollsy fallout is to set yourself up for disappointment.

 

i.e. don't expect it to reach FO or PST in writing.

Edited September 19, 2008 by Moatilliatta

[SteveThaiBinh]

Who's going to believe what they say after Oblivion?

Exactly.

 

Besides, Morrowind had some decent writing in the backstory but that didn't make the main plotline stellar.

[Slowtrain]

Shivering Isles isn't "good" dialogue. Or even notable. It's simply "better" then Oblivion. And considering Oblivion is the worst written crpg ever, excpeing maybe Lands of Lore 3, that's not saying anything good.

 

I do agree that dropping large amounts of text (the "lorebombs") on players isn't neccessarily a good story-telling technique either. But there is a huge difference between quality of writing and quantity of writing. Simply subsituting large quantities of text doesn't equal quality, but otoh, a small quantity of text doesn't equal quality either.

[Pidesco]

"Exposition in Mass Effect, for example, is generally atrocious."

 

No.

 

Yes.

 

Shepard - "Tell me about whatever"

 

the other person - "wall of awkward text"

[Dark_Raven]

WOW! BREAKING NEWS! WOWSERS! YEAH FOR BETHY THEY CAN WRITE!

[Shryke]

i liked the writing for the books and stuff you find in morrowind/oblivion

 

but actual game-wise, it was rather terrible....

[Llyranor]

considering Oblivion is the worst written crpg ever

You're wrong. Morrowind was even worse.

[Volourn]

"You're wrong. Morrowind was even worse."

 

You're wrong. Daggerfall was even worse.

[Deadly_Nightshade]

What about Arena?

[Hell Kitty]

Braid was pretty impressive from a design perspective.

At times. The hiding some books in the epilogue, while interesting in regards to the game and it's theme, was something that I see as quite bad design.

 

I could have down without the epilogue entirely. Kinda felt like being told a joke, thinking it was funny, and then having it explained to me why the joke was actually funny on several different levels. It was disappointing after the great final level.

[WILL THE ALMIGHTY]

What about Arena?

 

If Two Worlds counts as a CRPG than all these are superior.

[Humodour]

"Exposition in Mass Effect, for example, is generally atrocious."

 

No.

 

Yes.

 

Shepard - "Tell me about whatever"

 

the other person - "wall of awkward text"

 

Yeah, I hate that about Bioware's games. Unfortunately, it is also what Bethesda does, isn't it?

 

It's mostly of antithetical to how all the best RPGs (IMO) in history did it: Deus Ex 1, Fallout 1/2, Planescape: Torment,

 

I can't remember Bloodlines's writing and dialogue interactivity standing out, but I thoroughly enjoyed that game and would consider it one of the best RPGs, so it obviously did something right. I think it had just good overall atmosphere, adventure, and actual role-playing (in the sense of tonnes of options). And on that note, obviously you can get by with an awesome game without stellar dialogue: IWD, HL1, SS2, JA2, D1/2, KOTOR1, NOLF1, JK2, BG1.. thing is, in my experience Bethesda doesn't make stellar games even without good dialogue, and Bioware is struggling at it lately, too.

 

I guess ME and FO3 will tell. Assuming I can be bothered playing FO3 - critical response to FO3 similar to Oblivion would quickly deter me (i.e. mediocre game sites praising it as the best thing since sliced bread, with more independent and informed reviewers critical of it).

[Niten_Ryu]

"Exposition in Mass Effect, for example, is generally atrocious."

 

No.

 

Yes.

 

Shepard - "Tell me about whatever"

 

the other person - "wall of awkward text"

 

I have to disagree on that "wall of text" part. For most of the time, Mass Effect didn't hit you with wall of text, you could skip out of talky situations fast with right side neutral option. Even if you chose to ask just about everything, there wasn't that much text. More detailed info went into codex and then it would be your option if you chose to read it, or some cases, listen excellent narrative voiceover. I think other developers should do the same and give players more options how much info they want about the world, story or the characters.

[Nick_i_am]

rofl, Braid.