Mask of the Betrayer

Monte Carlo · September 1, 2007

mindless dungeon crawls

Whoah, brother! D&D is a broad church. Personally, I love mindless dungeon crawls. Absolutely love them.

You need something to break up the meaningful NPC dialogue and intense plots you lot seem so obsessed by :unsure:

I will happily meet you halfway, though. Mindless dungeon crawls (or MDC if we want a new three-letter-acronym) should be optional and not critical path. You can avoid them, I will POWAGAEME my way through them.

Cheers

MC

Aegeri · September 1, 2007

mindless dungeon crawls

Whoah, brother! D&D is a broad church. Personally, I love mindless dungeon crawls. Absolutely love them.

No, Icewind Dale is a great dungeon crawl with excellent set piece battles and a good level of challenge. Hacking apart orcs and then for some reason, half the God damned city watch (which incidentally, nobody apparently cares about) is insipid, reality breaking and stupid. In that order.

You need something to break up the meaningful NPC dialogue and intense plots you lot seem so obsessed by

... like?

Did we play the same NWN2? The best part of the whole game was the trial in Act 3. It was so incredibly well done, so well executed and written, I couldn't believe the same group of people had me slaughtering the entire city watch and running around Orc caves for a billion years.

Then it's back to hacking things apart! But at least it was entertaining from that point on. The Dungeon with the demons (I forget now) was well done.

Basically, more of the Demon dungeon, less orc caves and definitely no warehouses.

Edited September 1, 2007 by Aegeri

Blarghagh · September 1, 2007

So, I just found a cheap box that has both the original Neverwinter Nights + expansions, and Neverwinter Nights 2, so I bought it.

Since I've never played any of these before, I'd like to ask you Cantousent, if playing these is neccesary to understanding the story of Mask of the Betrayer?

(Also, since I've never played any of these before, I'd like to ask anyone if you have to play Neverwinter Nights or it's expansions to understand Neverwinter Nights 2?)

Pidesco · September 1, 2007

Regarding the second question: No, not at all.

Starwars · September 1, 2007

Basically, more of the Demon dungeon, less orc caves and definitely no warehouses.

Definetely agree with that. While I'm not overly fond of dungeon crawls in general, if they are well done and well paced I can find them very enjoyable. Orc Caves and Warehouse was just a test of patience. It's just so mindless. Actually, I find most of Act I of NWN2 to be lacking. The game really picks up at Act II if you ask me, and while some combat areas are still kinda meh, it never gets as frustratingly boring as the Orc Caves and Warehouse (or the graveyeard, but that's optional).

(Also, since I've never played any of these before, I'd like to ask anyone if you have to play Neverwinter Nights or it's expansions to understand Neverwinter Nights 2?)

Nope, they are seperate from each other. And while I haven't played the NWN2 expansion, Obsidian is saying that it's pretty much a story that you can enjoy without having played NWN2. But I would guess that there are things that reference to the NWN2 campaign (since the expansion is a continuation of that character).

Aegeri · September 1, 2007

I'd also point out, that the optional battle with one of the demons from that wonderfully executed demon dungeon, was really really really good. It was easily more challenging than 90% of the game combined, actually used the monsters abilities to make it difficult rather than screw with the DnD rules heavily and was very satisfying. More of that please. Definitely more of that.

Starwars · September 1, 2007

What fight was that Aegeri?

The only thing I could wish from the demon dungeon is perhaps some more different consequences or paths as to what demons you choose to help. It's a very interesting (and I think very well written) situation for roleplaying, but unfortunately it all culminates in the same thing (I think?). Granted, I'm not really sure what consequences could be written for the situation either, so there ya go. :thumbsup:

One of the very best parts of the NWN2 campaign I think.

Big Bottom · September 1, 2007

I'm with you fellas, the crawls in Act I did just that....crawl. And I'm a big fan of IWD.

Interestingly all the engine optimisations will be in the next patch for NWN2, which is so good they've given it a special name - "Premonition". See, I bet you can't wait for it if it has a special name.

http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums/viewt...4&forum=109

Aegeri · September 1, 2007

What fight was that Aegeri?

I'll spoiler this, because I find it was actually hard to even discover you could do it:

If you have some sort of influence rating with the Warlock character (been so long, can't remember their names), you get an option to follow him to see what he is up to. He goes back to Sandras (I think that's her name, the annoying blonde chick who follows you around for a while) farm and shows he has a bit of sentimentality to him. Then Koraboras (the Pit Fiend from the demon dungeon) turns up and all hell breaks loose. It's a pretty well done fight, because the devils rapidly chain portal in other devils and it becomes a big mess. It was actually pretty challenging and unlike other fights in the game, doesn't horribly break the DnD rules to actually be challenging either.

It also gives you some random warhammer, which I can't quite remember what it does off the top of my head

.

Cantousent · September 1, 2007

Cant: One question, you mentioned that combat in MotB is much more difficult, is this because fights are better spaced out and generally better planned? So can I look forward to NOT having mindless dungeon crawls like the orc caves and city watch warehouse? I still cannot play NWN2 again to this day because of how literally terrible those dungeons were.

I would however love the idea of fights being significantly tougher and without the 'filler' nature that those above two areas gave me the impression of being from the original.

I skimmed the last page before I read this post, so I guess I don't have a fresh mindset. Let me say that MotB has a great deal of combat. Like Monte, I like to have a lot of combat in a game, and I find that fighting serves as a prominent feature in most PnP DnD games I've seen as well.

However, I feel you in terms of the orc caves. Personally, I combat is interesting there, but is sometimes excessive in that the plot doesn

Cantousent · September 1, 2007

Sorry to double post, but you don't have to play the first NWN to understand NWN2 in the least. I know a lot of folks recommend NWN + expansions, and since you have the game you might want to play them also, but it is not necessary.

Starwars · September 1, 2007

I'll spoiler this, because I find it was actually hard to even discover you could do it:

Right, I remember that. I also liked the bit of interaction you get with Mr Warlock, and if you pass a certain check in the dialogue, there is a nice moment for him there. :thumbsup:

Aegeri · September 1, 2007

Cant: One question, you mentioned that combat in MotB is much more difficult, is this because fights are better spaced out and generally better planned? So can I look forward to NOT having mindless dungeon crawls like the orc caves and city watch warehouse? I still cannot play NWN2 again to this day because of how literally terrible those dungeons were.

I would however love the idea of fights being significantly tougher and without the 'filler' nature that those above two areas gave me the impression of being from the original.

I skimmed the last page before I read this post, so I guess I don't have a fresh mindset. Let me say that MotB has a great deal of combat. Like Monte, I like to have a lot of combat in a game, and I find that fighting serves as a prominent feature in most PnP DnD games I've seen as well.

However, I feel you in terms of the orc caves. Personally, I combat is interesting there, but is sometimes excessive in that the plot doesn

Edited September 1, 2007 by Aegeri

$@\NightandtheShape/@$ · September 1, 2007

I'm one of those weird people that enjoied IWD:HOW alot, infact I loved the story....

Atreides · September 1, 2007

Dungeon crawls can definitely be fun. Especially if they're actually towers. IWD1's Hand of Seldarin is absolutely beautiful. I think it's the sense of exploring something decrepit and the feeling of something's not right that made it so awesome. Puts the player on the edge and more aware - like awakening the senses and focused into the game.

Cantousent · September 1, 2007

If your primary concern is combat difficulty, then you'll be quite happy with MotB. Not only is the story more interspersed with the battles, but the battles are much tougher. That doesn't even include the spirit eater mechanic which will make things difficult as well.

The upshot is, if you'd rather have a game that is light on combat, I cannot recommend MotB. If you want a game that has a great story with challenging battles, then MotB is the game for you.

Zoma · September 1, 2007

I'm surprised the suckers for romances have yet to asked these questions:

-How are the romance plots executed in MotB compared to NWN2?

-Romanceable characters are still limited to two? (Safiya and Galynn according to the Devs months ago)

-What about the characters you romanced in NWN2? How will it affect with this new batch of romanceable characters in terms of character development and its consistencies? Will it assume you did not romance them like how MotB assumes you killed KoS regardless of alignment?

Starwars · September 1, 2007

And of course, can you like, totally get it on with a character in MotB? :thumbsup:

Dark_Raven · September 2, 2007

Romances are nonexistant in modern games. The last great romances were in BG2.

Hurlshort · September 2, 2007

Romances are nonexistant in modern games. The last great romances were in BG2.

Whatever, I had some epic lovin' in Jade Empire. Simultaneous lovin' baby. 2 or 3.

Cantousent · September 2, 2007

Doofi. I actually like the news from BigBottom's post. That new optimization coming in the next patch will be quite good.

Sand · September 2, 2007

The romances in NWN2 were kind of lame but what can you expect a game with a Teenie rating. I wish we had romance options for Neeshka, Elanee, Qara, Grobnar, Casavir, Sand, and Bishop, and on top of that have them be with either gender. :brows:

Yeah, that would be really interesting... :dancing:

Edited September 2, 2007 by Sand

Musopticon? · September 2, 2007

I always knew you held special interest for gnomes, but goddamn man...

Sand · September 2, 2007

GROBNAR THE BARDINATOR!

Who can't help but love that gnome! :bat:

taks · September 2, 2007

The romances in NWN2 were kind of lame but what can you expect a game with a Teenie rating. I wish we had romance options for Neeshka, Elanee, Qara, Grobnar, Casavir, Sand, and Bishop, and on top of that have them be with either gender.

yeah, neeshka an qara... i'll bring the movie camera if someone else can get the popcorn!

oh, you ment with the PC... i see.

taks

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