nwn expansion q&a

[Gromnir]

gamespot article

 

am not a big fan of new classes and prcs, but favored soul (if some of the cheese is made more mild) is probably gonna get a run through from Gromnir.

 

hopefully they makes skills more useful in the expansion. nwn 2 weren't half bad in this respect, 'specially compared to nwn 1, but almost always seems likes there is little reason to has high int non mages in a d&d 3e crpg... is wasted attribute points. 'course this goes counter to how Gromnir plays d&d... when we plays d&d. skills is always much important in our campaigns. heck, we actually were moderate intrigued by some of the prcs in the complete adventurer book simply 'cause o' skills focus... and we hate prcs. 'course we still didn't buy the book, but it were a close thing.

 

anyways, we were somewhat surprised that nobody 'round here mentioned the new fergie info... is not too much new stuff, but there is some.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Meshugger]

The more info that i read about the expansion, the more i think that this is the vision of NWN2 that Obsidian originally wanted.

[Pop]

I really hope the companions turn out well. At this point I'm getting Bioshock just to tide me over until October.

[Cantousent]

The more info that i read about the expansion, the more i think that this is the vision of NWN2 that Obsidian originally wanted.

 

My impression, from what I've read, is that you're entirely right. MotB seems like NWN2's older smarter brother. I guess we'll see.

[Guard Dog]

I'm liking this more and more as info comes out about it. Not that there was a chance I would not buy it anyway just for the new modding material alone. I hope they are cooking up a follow up expansion as well. This game desrves at least two.

[Gromnir]

The more info that i read about the expansion, the more i think that this is the vision of NWN2 that Obsidian originally wanted.

 

My impression, from what I've read, is that you're entirely right. MotB seems like NWN2's older smarter brother. I guess we'll see.

 

 

too bad it is nwn2's shorter and more streamlined brother.

 

is too bad that the organizational problems facing the nwn2 got bad 'nuff to hamper development 'cause we actually liked nwn2 for the most part... were just too critical path focused and many characters/quests seemed underdeveloped and rushed... were not as bad as a troika development, but...

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Volourn]

No new dwarven subraces = -2 points

[Gromnir]

personally, we would give vol's right arm if obsidian would fix cleric domains rather than giving us new crap likes races and classes n' such, but we understand why obsidian gotta do what they is doing... follow the wotc model as it were.

 

...

 

Gromnir were pretty damned impressed with the recent raveloft hardcover adventure release. 1 new prc and some spells and a couple class modification options, but mostly it were all 'bout the adventure... and keeps in mind that we weren't a big fan o' the original ravenloft adventure that we played through way back in the 80s. would prefer if obsidian had approached motb likes wotc did ravenloft revisit, but such is life. so we gets epic and prcs and new sub races... crap.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Pop]

How hard would it be to mod proper domains (if I understand you correctly, that would mean matching domains to deities and then having the player choose their deity?) into the game?

[Gromnir]

How hard would it be to mod proper domains (if I understand you correctly, that would mean matching domains to deities and then having the player choose their deity?) into the game?

 

developers seem to suggest that it ain't easy... or they woulda' done for nwn2. am honestly not certain what the difficulty is as we ain't a programmer, but there has been some very poor attempts by community members to gets right spells/powers combos to correspond with the nwn2 domains. fact that results is so terrible seems to suggest that this ain't an easy fix, but am only guessing based on limited info.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Pop]

Hmmm, right, I forgot about the inherent powers.

[Gromnir]

Hmmm, right, I forgot about the inherent powers.

 

the thing we don't get is why the spell lists is wrong even when the appropriate spell is available. not got any of the lists in front of us, but am recalling that destruction domain not get disintegrate spell. why not? spell is in game. too powerful? not powerful 'nuff? is there even a reason or did obsidian largely simply grab nwn1 domains and import into nwn2? just one example of Many such oddities.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Gfted1]

is there even a reason or did obsidian largely simply grab nwn1 domains and import into nwn2? just one example of Many such oddities.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

 

I was under the impression thats the case. Didnt one of the devs reply in one of these threads that they got an "early build" of NWN and ported it over to the new engine thus porting over all the same old problems that were worked out long ago by patches?

[Gromnir]

btw, domain spells shoulds fills a domain slot... is not simply added to cleric's spell list. some of the domain spells (such as the new and improved 3.5 disintegrate) is pretty powerful and shoulds probably be limited to a 1-a-day use situation. air were a real popular nwn1 domain 'cause call lightning and chain lightning were simply added to spell lists... which ain't really resulting in good balance compared to some other domains.

 

g1 explanation makes sense... al we know is that we asked nwn2 developers if domains would be fixed in nwn2 so as to match da rulez more close, and they said, "No." were pretty much the end of the story.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Pop]

Might've been something that got lost in all the personnel turmoil. I remember how people hated the NWN1 Blackguard being given spell-like abilities instead of spells, and how one of the first things said about NWN2 was that they were going to fix the Blackguard mistake. I don't think that ever happened.

[J.E. Sawyer]

Custom spell lists and domain fixes weren't made a high priority early on. As time dwindled down, attacking something that design and engineering hadn't really addressed from the beginning didn't seem wise... unfortunately.

 

We do have a re-design for custom spell lists, in particular, but haven't had time to move forward with it.

[Gromnir]

Custom spell lists and domain fixes weren't made a high priority early on. As time dwindled down, attacking something that design and engineering hadn't really addressed from the beginning didn't seem wise... unfortunately.

 

We do have a re-design for custom spell lists, in particular, but haven't had time to move forward with it.

 

is this possible patch fodder, or simply a dead end feature that if it not make it into motb won't make it into nwn2? after all, fergie made a specific 'point in q&a suggesting that more accurate rulez implementation issues were a big deal/focus for obsidian with motb.

 

HA! good Fun!

[J.E. Sawyer]

My personal feeling is that it (custom spell lists) could be done in a patch. There are really three elements to changing how spell lists work:

 

1) Code has to allow data to drive arbitrary spell lists instead of forcing data to conform to code's (very limited) number of spell lists. That is, the class data needs to specify another data file that holds spell information for that class instead of simply telling the code that the class uses one of five pre-built columns in spells.2da.

2) All non-innate spell levels in spells.2da need to be blocked out in that .2da and moved to their own class-specific spell list .2das. All other data for a spell could be pulled from spells.2da, but what classes get what spells at what level would come from the new .2das. Translation: a human being needs to do lots of data wrangling.

3) Retrofitting existing characters that should have their own spell lists. I.e., allowing blackguard and assassin characters that people are already playing to have their own spell lists. This is probably the most obnoxious aspect of making these changes.

 

As for domain spell lists... I'm not sure. I honestly haven't talked with programming enough to determine what would be required to make that work. It wasn't particularly hard in IWD2, but that's no guarantee of anything.

[Pop]

huh, I just noticed that link in your sig. Boss.

[Gromnir]

do what you can. one of the things in iwd2 that impressed the heck out of Gromnir were your domain implementation. sure, it were all deity specific, but the results were clerics with spells lists far more recognizable as 3e cleric spell lists than we ever has seen in any nwn game.

 

josh getting stuck playing a nwn2 red knight cleric with horribly butchered spell lists? unthinkable.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[taks]

personally, we would give vol's right arm if obsidian would fix cleric domains rather than giving us new crap likes races and classes n' such, but we understand why obsidian gotta do what they is doing... follow the wotc model as it were.

based on i can't recall how many years worth of posts, i'm convinced you'd give vol's right or left anything to get such things, maybe even both.

 

i've never been a cleric fan from an RP perspective so the issue never bothered me. i can understand, sort of, why it bugs those of you that are bigger into pnp, however.

 

taks

[Tale]

3) Retrofitting existing characters that should have their own spell lists. I.e., allowing blackguard and assassin characters that people are already playing to have their own spell lists. This is probably the most obnoxious aspect of making these changes.

I would e-hump you senseless.

[taks]

disturbing visual.

 

taks

[Gromnir]

personally, we would give vol's right arm if obsidian would fix cleric domains rather than giving us new crap likes races and classes n' such, but we understand why obsidian gotta do what they is doing... follow the wotc model as it were.

based on i can't recall how many years worth of posts, i'm convinced you'd give vol's right or left anything to get such things, maybe even both.

 

i've never been a cleric fan from an RP perspective so the issue never bothered me. i can understand, sort of, why it bugs those of you that are bigger into pnp, however.

 

taks

 

taks is the guy that developers such as obsidian and bio has to make games for. in spite o' what fergie said, rules accuracy is not a big concern for the average fan, so we understands why stuff likes domain spell lists is low priority. nevertheless, being an unreasonable guy our self, and recognizing that josh's big complaint 'bout bg were the way it mangled d&d rules, we hopes that maybe josh can reconcile his personal standards with the demands o' obsidian. if bg were so broken 'cause of busted rules...

 

this is a crpg. is simple reality that not all pnp rules can be actualized accurate in a crpg... 'least not in a cost effective manner. but for those rules that can be done right... why not?

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

ps makes skills more important in motb than they was in nwn2. thanks in advance.

Edited July 31, 2007 by Gromnir

[Tale]

I now have two more questions.

 

Will Mask of the Betrayer have better 16:10 support? Standard NWN2 only has 1440x900 as a 16:10 rez. 1280

Edited July 31, 2007 by Tale