NWN2: Discussion

[Volourn]

"The KoS was evil, but not through any fault of his own"

 

Eh? That's a contradiction. Someone else can't 'make' you evil. One can only commit evn if they choose to (and, vice versa).

 

His actions were/are evil. He may have started out with good intentions; but that's not where he ended up as his choices led him down the evil path.

 

I had *some* sympathy for KOS; but not enough to white wash his choices of evil.

Edited December 9, 2006 by Volourn

[Deraldin]

"The KoS was evil, but not through any fault of his own"

 

Eh? That's a contradiction. Someone else cna't 'make' you evil. One can only commit evn if they choose to (and, vice versa).

 

His actions were/ar eevil. H emay have started out with good intention; but that's not where he ended up as his choices led him down the evil path.

 

I had *some* sympathy for KOS; but not enough to white wash his choices of evil.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Can a mindless construct choose good or evil?

[Volourn]

No; but the KOS was not mindless if that's where you are headed..

[Deraldin]

No; but the KOS was not mindless if that's where you are headed..

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

That was the impression that I got when playing the game. He was basically a really powerful magic golem who's only purpose was to protect the Illefarn. The extent of his "thoughts" were "Are you an enemy of the Illefarn. If yes, then attack, else ignore."

Edited December 9, 2006 by Deraldin

[Atreides]

I don't understand why the shadow portal needed to be destroyed, and by the silver sword.

[Darque]

BG2 Silver Sword was better.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

As if.

 

Nothing beats that swirling wall of sharded death.

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's simply awesome. I charged into a pack of blade golems and a reaver with my swirling wall of sharded death, and they were literally dropping like flies as my screen filled up with red double digit damage text bubbles.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Agreed. That sword is the best weapon in any game.

 

Even dethroning the Crom Faeyr :ph34r:

[Gromnir]

"The KoS was evil, but not through any fault of his own. He did what he thought was necessary to protect the country he obviously loved a little too much. His actions weren't evil, but they led to him being evil by chance."

 

that is why the whole shadow weave crap really hurt the story. shadow weave perverts the Guardian? why? use your explanation sans the shadow weave stuff. has final conflict with Guardian not be 'gainst some shadowy tusked monster. has Guardian BE simply the Guardian and you gots a much more sympathetic character.

 

"That was the impression that I got when playing the game. He was basically a really powerful magic golem who's only purpose was to protect the Illefarn. The extent of his "thoughts" were "Are you an enemy of the Illefarn. If yes, then attack, else ignore.""

 

is not how we saw. how you gots Guardian coming up with clandestine plans and making deals with garius and shadow priests n' such if he is simply golem-like?

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Deraldin]

Agreed. That sword is the best weapon in any game. 

 

Even dethroning the Crom Faeyr  :ph34r:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Can it beat it Celestial Fury though? or Lilacor. "

[Darque]

I don't even remember the Celestial Fury.

 

And it even beats Lilarcor... in combat. :ph34r:

 

Nothing beats Lilarcor's Persona though. Nothing.

 

Hands up kiddies, who wants to die?

[Deraldin]

"That was the impression that I got when playing the game. He was basically a really powerful magic golem who's only purpose was to protect the Illefarn. The extent of his "thoughts" were "Are you an enemy of the Illefarn. If yes, then attack, else ignore.""

 

is not how we saw.  how you gots Guardian coming up with clandestine plans and making deals with garius and shadow priests n' such if he is simply golem-like?

 

HA! Good Fun!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I guess I got that impression because I never really saw the KoS himself as being behind all these plots. Haven't really though about it too much, but I just figured that the Shadow Priests were the ones that were really organizing everything. The KoS was just doing what it was supposed to do and the Shadow Priests were coming up with their own plans that used what the KoS was doing to suit their own ends.

 

I didn't see the KoS as being the one that made any of the deals with Garius. I figured that he was dealing with the Shadow Priests.

[Deraldin]

I don't even remember the Celestial Fury.

 

And it even beats Lilarcor... in combat.  :ph34r:

 

Nothing beats Lilarcor's Persona though. Nothing. 

 

Hands up kiddies, who wants to die?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Celestial Fury was the +3 Katana that had a save vs. spells or be stunned. Also had a %5 chance of doing an extra 20 lightning damage.

[Pop]

is not how we saw.  how you gots Guardian coming up with clandestine plans and making deals with garius and shadow priests n' such if he is simply golem-like?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't think the KoS made any plans, per se. To use an overthought comparison, the KoS is akin to a Lovecraftian god, potent but remote. The shadow priests are cultists who revere the KoS in the same way Lovecraft's cultists revered Cthulu. They follow him because they know he'll come anyway, and when he does they might be spared destruction. But like Cthulu, the KoS doesn't really concern himself with his cult's aims. The cult worships him, but their interests aren't his.

 

Black Garius sought out the KoS out of a lust for power. He knew that the KoS was powerful and overestimated his ability. He thought he could steal the KoS' power and discard him, and instead he became enslaved.

[Deraldin]

is not how we saw.  how you gots Guardian coming up with clandestine plans and making deals with garius and shadow priests n' such if he is simply golem-like?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't think the KoS made any plans, per se. To use an overthought comparison, the KoS is akin to a Lovecraftian god, potent but remote. The shadow priests are cultists who revere the KoS in the same way Lovecraft's cultists revered Cthulu. They follow him because they know he'll come anyway, and when he does they might be spared destruction. But like Cthulu, the KoS doesn't really concern himself with his cult's aims. The cult worships him, but their interests aren't his.

 

Black Garius sought out the KoS out of a lust for power. He knew that the KoS was powerful and overestimated his ability. He thought he could steal the KoS' power and discard him, and instead he became enslaved.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Exactly! ^_^

[Darque]

I don't even remember the Celestial Fury.

 

And it even beats Lilarcor... in combat.  :ph34r:

 

Nothing beats Lilarcor's Persona though. Nothing. 

 

Hands up kiddies, who wants to die?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Celestial Fury was the +3 Katana that had a save vs. spells or be stunned. Also had a %5 chance of doing an extra 20 lightning damage.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Ah, that's why I don't recall it.

 

I'm more of a hammer, scythe and talking sword user.

[aVENGER]

I haven't played far enough with the patch to see if Bishop is working properly now, but that would be my guess. But otherwise there is a fairly simple solution - the console. Just use it to remove the dual wield feats and give him the archery ones and that's that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Thanks! BTW, after searching the Bioware forums I've discovered that Bishop having Two Weapon Style is in fact a bug.

 

Bishop's character package is set for archery style, but for some inexplicable reason it insists on giving him two-weapon fighting.

 

Heh, after reading that I have absolutely no qualms about giving him the archery path via console.

[aVENGER]

The function of the Guardian was, always, to protect the Illfarn Empire in a proactive sense. The Guardian recognised the events immediately after its corruption as an invasion and destruction of the Illfarn Empire.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

One of the dwarf spirits in the Gem Mines portion of the Illfarn ruins mentions an interesting little detail:

 

 

There's a dirty little secret, one the others won't tell you. We struck first. We never bothered to learn the Guardian's intentions.Who can say? The blood-drunk elf-girls swooped in before we could ask, before we could think. Yes, the Guardian's nature had changed, but what did that mean?What did he want? Revenge? Did he want his life back? Did he simply want to feed? We didn't even try to find out.

 

As for me... I don't think his motives had changed at all. Nor have they ever.Illefarn was destroyed by the very Guardian whose sole purpose was to protect our nation. He was the perfect protector, and yet he turned against us.But why? We stripped him of his name, so he had no pride. We stripped him of his self, so he had no ambition.No... that isn't the reason at all.Tell me, plunderer, have you asked yourself the question yet?Why not? To have a purpose, however fleeting, will be a welcome change.Or perhaps it is merely the ramblings of a shattered and nameless mind. Make of it what you will.

 

Or, lacking an Illefarn to defend, he is simply trying to destroy her enemies, wherever he perceives them to be.Think of it from his perspective. He is the Guardian, the prime defender of his nation. Then he is attacked by Illefarn's soldiers and wizards.No one is more devoted to Illefarn than he... therefore his attackers must be enemies, even if they do wear Illefarn's colors.

 

 

Quite intriguing, if you ask me, and I wish the devs had explored this further and possibly enabled us to parley with the KoS in more detail. Perhaps the player could even talk him out of the whole thing, providing he has the needed knowledge and negotiating skills. I was thinking of something similar to the diplomatic ending of Fallout when you confront the Master with evidence of Super Mutant sterility and talk him out of his plan for conquest. :cool:

 

 

I don't understand why the shadow portal needed to be destroyed, and by the silver sword.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

AFAIK, the KoS was getting more energy through the portal which effectively gave him a high regeneration rate in-game.

[Tigranes]

That's one part I hadn't found - it's a Gem Mine ghost dialogue, right? I absolutely freakin' hated that stupid area (you try and play it in 10fps and getting ghosts LOST.), so I kinda skipped that part.

 

Anyhow, yeah - the Gem Mines did plant the *seeds* of a very compelling villain, but I think the proportion was a little off in the plot - Garius had been built up a little too long and there was not enough time or narrative impetus left to sufficiently explain KoS. Zhjaeve's discussions do not really touch on this area, either. It's a pity because I really think he could have been compelling - sympathetic for some, pathetic for others, or perhaps merely intriguing. But definitely more fleshed out than Sarevok #16.

[Oerwinde]

No; but the KOS was not mindless if that's where you are headed..

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

That was the impression that I got when playing the game. He was basically a really powerful magic golem who's only purpose was to protect the Illefarn. The extent of his "thoughts" were "Are you an enemy of the Illefarn. If yes, then attack, else ignore."

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Needed to pay more attention during the rites of purification then. The reason they used a living person was so they could have a sentient mind behind the guardian. They wanted it to think for itself. That was how everything went wrong. If it didn't think for itself it never would have turned to the shadow weave and this all wouldn't have happened.

[jaguars4ever]

I finished preparations at the keep and got ready to go to war. I have to admit, I was a little disappointed with the way Obsidian decided to handle the Battle at Highcliff scene. In my opinion, the animated stills approach tends to work best with third party narration (usually when recounting past events ala storytelling). But since Nasher's pompous little war speech and the subsequent battle are taking place in real time, I feel this would have been a glorious opportunity to break out some stellar FMV. Alas, it seems the devs decided to take the cheap route.

[Diamond]

Alas, it seems the devs decided to take the cheap route. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I've got a feel that the devs were running out of time when considering how to roll out this scene.

Edited December 9, 2006 by Diamond

[jaguars4ever]

Alas, it seems the devs decided to take the cheap route. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I've got a feel that the devs were running out of time when considering how to roll out this scene.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Could be that too - although we all know these things aren't necessarily mutually exclusive.

 

Ah well, it's no big deal ultimately, but when you look at how good the opening cut-scene was (

Ammon Jerro vs Avatar of the King of Shadows with the bling-bling Sword of Gith

), then you can't help but wonder what it could have been like.

[Pop]

Hmm, where is the glowing ink?

 

I think my golem quest may be bugged.

[Lucius]

Ok I have another question for you lot!

 

I have been a good boy so far, a super lawman Paladin/DC with a twist of metro and a whole lot of undead hatred.

 

Now, my companions are almost equally good, even the dwarf is getting soft

as he moves along the path to become a Monk

, but if I was to start over and make an evil char, would I be able to influence them as well? Wouldn't it be kinda awkward to run around as a Blackguard, for instance, with a band of bleeding heart goody two shoes?

Edited December 9, 2006 by Lucius

[jaguars4ever]

Hmm, where is the glowing ink?

 

I think my golem quest may be bugged.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Try taking Grobnar with you to the Glowstone cave.

 

It's funny how strongly the game hints this to you as well (it's like they don't even expect you to be hauling a useless bard in tow).

Edited December 9, 2006 by jaguars4ever

[Atreides]

Hmm, where is the glowing ink?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

It's the fancy pools where the goblins keep their glowstone. Must have Grobnar along to notice it though.