IGN's NWN2 impression

[Tigranes]

I think we agree, actually, and I probably should use the word 'animations' less broadly. The animations themselves were excellent, it was the context of their execution, the fluidity between them and the use of space between and around figures.

[Arkan]

I think we agree, actually, and I probably should use the word 'animations' less broadly. The animations themselves were excellent, it was the context of their execution, the fluidity between them and the use of space between and around figures.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

30 Helens agree.

[Dark_Raven]

Volo is Obs official NWN/Bioware fanatical fanboy.

[Darque]

[metadigital]

So the plaintiffs are arguing that NwN characters should have more fluid animations during the non-directed action of the turn-based combat sequences? And this is ruining your gaming experience? So, you would be terrifically upset with the stilted action of the characters in Street Fighter, too, I presume?

 

I have looked at the video sequence of the outdoor battle (with the boars etc) and I see nothing that isn't in keeping with a turn-based (i.e. action-pause-action template) reality. Would the character treading water (or singing / dancing / nervously looking at their watch / whatever), whilst the player decides which spell / sword / man

[Deraldin]

So the plaintiffs are arguing that NwN characters should have more fluid animations during the non-directed action of the turn-based combat sequences? And this is ruining your gaming experience? So, you would be terrifically upset with the stilted action of the characters in Street Fighter, too, I presume?

 

I have looked at the video sequence of the outdoor battle (with the boars etc) and I see nothing that isn't in keeping with a turn-based (i.e. action-pause-action template) reality. Would the character treading water (or singing / dancing / nervously looking at their watch / whatever), whilst the player decides which spell / sword / man

[Cantousent]

The problem with adding combat moves inbetween actual attacks is that it doesn't represent what's happening in the game. I'd rather have the clunkiness and know when my attacks actually fall than to have cosmetics muddy the waters.

[Tigranes]

And this is ruining your gaming experience? So, you would be terrifically upset with the stilted action of the characters in Street Fighter, too, I presume?

 

Actually, meta, you inflated my criticism to disproportionate degrees with no incentive for such from me. Back in page 1 (or something) I simply pointed out that this is a continuing eyesore in my opinion - something that didn't break NWN and won't break NWN2, and I never claimed that, did I? But to say a criticism is pointless because it is not a game-breaking one would be illogical, so we can get past that fallacy.

 

I see nothing that isn't in keeping with a turn-based (i.e. action-pause-action template) reality.

 

Indeed? In concept, yes. Even making the gaps between the stop of one animation and the start of one, and a more 'active' wait animation would suffice. What I mean by that is, in-between each swing of the sword or whatever (which may be up to 5 seconds), the NWN2 figures in the video seem quite flat-footed, and don't have any of the lightness / 'jumpiness' that real fighters would have. It is as if they swing the sword, then with a miniscule skip of animation turn back to standing with legs slightly abreast. So it's not the basic mechanics that would have to change, simply the polish and fluidness of them. I believe NWN1's characters had this problem too, but they were a bit more mobile than the video's NWN2 figures - in their case the point to nag was the fact that they seem to 'glide' in an arc around a circular, invisible 'personal space' the enemy figure occupied.

Edited August 19, 2006 by Tigranes

[metadigital]

Okey dokey, so what you want is more elaborate / longer animations? I still think it's a little early to be claiming the game doesn't have them / look good enough. We can only wait and see.

 

From what I saw the "personal space" issue was almost non-existent, too.

[Atreides]

I think early on the devs made the choice that there wouldn't be the "filler" sidefooting around. Hence they're more static.

[SteveThaiBinh]

It would be nice to see combat animations that were more realistic. I'd like to see my level 1 fighter struggling with his sword, or a character with low strength really exerting himself to swing an axe at lower levels, and for this slowly to become smoother and more professional as the character gains experience, attributes and levels. I'd also like to see them visibly tire over the course of a long fight, though I appreciate that D&D doesn't really handle stamina in that way. Maybe this kind of thing will come with next-next-gen?

 

I always thought the gliding was rather silly in NWN1, but nothing that interfered with my enjoyment of the game. Still, since it happens nearly every time you start a new combat, you'd think it'd be worthwhile spending some time finding an alternative.

Edited August 19, 2006 by SteveThaiBinh

[metadigital]

Actually, the attribute-based animation is a pretty nifty idea. And not particulary difficult to implement: after all, if would be a geometric increase in artwork complexity.

[Tigranes]

Okey dokey, so what you want is more elaborate / longer animations? I still think it's a little early to be claiming the game doesn't have them / look good enough. We can only wait and see.

 

From what I saw the "personal space" issue was almost non-existent, too.

 

Agreed, which is the reason for my continued use of "NWN2 video" not "NWN2" in terminology. I simply note that it hasn't been eliminated so far, and in the possible event that this is not rectified before release, it would be a hit at visual realism and polish.

 

It's not more elaborate/longer animations. It's:

1/ The space, or 'skip', between one animation and another, notably action animation and wait animation, is noticeable.

2/ The 'wait' animation does not have enough movement in it, both because of the flat posture of the figure and because of a... well, lack of movement at all.

 

The personal space point was made at nwn1, not nwn2. I clarify all this not to be anally retentive, but just since I was possibly not as clear as I could be before. It's not as easy to describe things like this in words alone.

 

Atreides: in this respect NWN1's 'wait' animations were less static - would you count that as 'filler' as well? In that case, I wonder at the design decision. It's reasonable to say "the fighter will only swing his sword when he actually attacks, so it is not confusing"; but to say "the fighter will stand still and shuffle just a tiny bit when not attacking, so it is not confusing" is odd.

 

Anyhow. attribute-based animation is a great idea, and certainly a better answer than 'special move' design some games go for.

[Atreides]

Atreides: in this respect NWN1's 'wait' animations were less static - would you count that as 'filler' as well? In that case, I wonder at the design decision. It's reasonable to say "the fighter will only swing his sword when he actually attacks, so it is not confusing"; but to say "the fighter will stand still and shuffle just a tiny bit when not attacking, so it is not confusing" is odd.

?

 

They removed the shuffling around because the character'd get into dumb posistions where they were vulnerable during combat. Don't know what impact that'd have on how combat animation works.

[J.E. Sawyer]

Last week Frank finally got our "combat fidget" animations working. Basically, when the character has a lull between actions, he or she will play a combat fidget appropriate for his or her stance. This may be a weapon twirl, a feint, or some other "quasi/prep attack". The fidgets are subtle enough that they don't look like 4 reallz attacks, but big enough that the characters don't just look like they are standing around for five seconds out of every round.

[kirottu]

:cool:

[Volourn]

Sounds good. Now, we need Atari to release the new stuff!

[GhostofAnakin]

Last week Frank finally got our "combat fidget" animations working.  Basically, when the character has a lull between actions, he or she will play a combat fidget appropriate for his or her stance.  This may be a weapon twirl, a feint, or some other "quasi/prep attack".  The fidgets are subtle enough that they don't look like 4 reallz attacks, but big enough that the characters don't just look like they are standing around for five seconds out of every round.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Can't wait to see the video of that. :D

[Judge Hades]

Last week Frank finally got our "combat fidget" animations working.  Basically, when the character has a lull between actions, he or she will play a combat fidget appropriate for his or her stance.  This may be a weapon twirl, a feint, or some other "quasi/prep attack".  The fidgets are subtle enough that they don't look like 4 reallz attacks, but big enough that the characters don't just look like they are standing around for five seconds out of every round.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Kickass, J.E.. A video trailer on this would be cool to see. *hint hint*

[Darque]

FAN-tastic

[Dark_Raven]

Nice

[Calax]

Ooohhhh.

[metadigital]

Last week Frank finally got our "combat fidget" animations working.  Basically, when the character has a lull between actions, he or she will play a combat fidget appropriate for his or her stance.  This may be a weapon twirl, a feint, or some other "quasi/prep attack".  The fidgets are subtle enough that they don't look like 4 reallz attacks, but big enough that the characters don't just look like they are standing around for five seconds out of every round.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

... And how about announcing attribute-based animations (for NwN3, maybe?) :D

[Calax]

I wanna be able to flex my way though anything (STRIKE POSE! :enemy flees:)

[metadigital]

That would be an attribute-based (anti-charisma) failed roll by the NPC / monster, wouldn't it? ^_^