Best of infinitity.

[Dark_Raven]

Baldur's Gate, the first one, will always be one of my favorite Infinity games. It had the numerous npcs, of differing alignments, races, who could join your party. It was not overkill in leveling. There were many places you could visit, indoors or out in the forests. Plus there were a lot of side quests you could take on.

 

The only draw back was the npc's dialogues was simplistic and not complex with altering responses and replies like Baldur's Gate 2. Plus it did not have any romances.

[Darque]

The only draw back was the npc's dialogues was simplistic and not complex with altering responses and replies like Baldur's Gate 2. Plus it did not have any romances. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Well, games usually progress forward, not backward

[CoM_Solaufein]

The BG1 NPCs were nothing but pack mules. All they did was complain when you didn't do their quest or if your deeds countered their ideals. But I liked the variety of classes, alignments and races you could choice from.

[alanschu]

To be fair to Baldur's Gate, no one really expected those things in that time, which is why we all have fond memories of it.

 

To criticize Baldur's Gate in comparison to today's games is silly in my opinion. It SHOULD be worse. However, I don't think it's as bad (today) as it really should be.

[Judge Hades]

I have to agree with Mr. Alanschu here. It is unfortunate that some of today's games still do not have the quality of baldur's Gate, a game that is almost a decade old.

[Plano Skywalker]

I think it is sad that it took a hack and slash like Dungeon Siege to give us a pack mule....rideable mounts and pack animals should have been there early on.

[Lancer]

1. Planescape: Torment (Simply The best CRPG ever made)

 

2. Baldur's Gate I (The popular game that revitalized PC RPGs)

 

3. Baldur's Gate: Throne of Bhaal (Severely underrated. Loads of fun. Fun high level play in that you get to battle Bhaalspawn as powerful as you. Very epic storyline)

 

4. Baldur's Gate: Shadows of Amn (Good game but pretty overrated. Way too many repetitive and unoriginal fedex-style side quests. Every Joe-shmoe wanted "this" retrieved or "that" retrieved...

The main storyline was a re-hash from the first BG1 particularly the main villain's motives. Too much emphasis on the main villain rather than the PC. Timed dialogue system was a lazy way of doing character interaction. Several technical improvements over the first one though)

 

5 & 6. IWD 1 and 2: Overrated, trite, and boring hack and slash crap.

Edited January 27, 2006 by Lancer

[Lancer]

To be fair to Baldur's Gate, no one really expected those things in that time, which is why we all have fond memories of it.

 

To criticize Baldur's Gate in comparison to today's games is silly in my opinion.  It SHOULD be worse.  However, I don't think it's as bad (today) as it really should be.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

But remember that Ultima VII (both parts) had in-depth NPCs with interesting backstories and solid character interaction nearly half a decade earlier. Good character interaction wasn't some new concept when time BG1 came around.

 

BG's treatment of NPC character interaction in comparison (including BG2!) was a step backwards indeed. Not until Torment did we see a game that continued that high character interaction standard originally set by Ultima VII.

Edited January 27, 2006 by Lancer

[Volourn]

"The BG1 NPCs were nothing but pack mules. All they did was complain when you didn't do their quest or if your deeds countered their ideals."

 

You contradict yourself.

 

 

"BG's treatment of NPC character interaction in comparison (including BG2!) was a step backwards indeed. Not until Torment did we see a game that continued that high character interaction standard originally set by Ultima VII."

 

Not quite true. BG2's treatment of character interaction is just as deep as Ultima 7's was. Ultima did have other things going for it as well, and BG2 had things that Ultima didn't do so well either.

 

BG1 was lacking there; but then again, BG's goal was not the same as Ultima's so it wasn't a 'step backwards'. It wa step in a different direction.

 

Just like IWD wasn't a step backwards from BG1 in terms of interaction even though it used the same engine as its goals were different.

Edited January 27, 2006 by Volourn

[Lancer]

Not quite true. BG2's treatment of character interaction is just as deep as Ultima 7's was. Ultima did have other things going for it as well, and BG2 had things that Ultima didn't do so well either.

 

I personally don't like the time-triggered dialogue system of BG2. The time-triggered dialogue system meant that you would have conversations with your party in the most unlikely and illogical situations. Not only that but ongoing conversations felt disjointed due to their random nature.

I think that you should be able to converse with your NPCs anytime you want whenever you want.. If anything dialgoue should be event-triggered as opposed to a random flag set off after 20 hours of gameplay telling you to hit on Jaheira while battling a black dragon.

 

BG1 was lacking there; but then again, BG's goal was not the same as Ultima's so it wasn't a 'step backwards'. It wa step in a different direction.

 

And what direction was that?

 

Just like IWD wasn't a step backwards from BG1 in terms of interaction even though it used the same engine as its goals were different.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

IWD was a hack and slash dungeon crawl as far as I am concerned. BG1 actually had a good storyline.

 

And BTW, I loved BG1. It is my second favorite Infinity game. But this was one aspect in which earlier RPGS did a bit better in.

Edited January 27, 2006 by Lancer

[Volourn]

"I personally don't like the time-triggered dialogue system of BG2. The time-triggered dialogue system meant that you would have conversations with your party in the most unlikely and illogical situations. Not only that but ongoing conversations felt disjointed due to their random nature.

I think that you should be able to converse with your NPCs anytime you want whenever you want."

 

A legit complaint. And, true, soemtimes it occured at illogical times. I don't think it's personally a big enough deal to hurt it much. All I know is that pretty much every joinable in BG2 had solid story and backgrounds, good interaction, and the player could influence them to varying degrees. That's about the same level as U7 did to my memory of such an ancient (and great) game.

 

 

"And what direction was that?"

 

About getting as close to the pnp experience as possible in a single player D&D game. You should be comapring the IE games to, say, the GB games not Ultima.

 

 

"And BTW, I loved BG1. It is my second favorite Infinity game."

 

I never said you hated it. We're discussing one aspect. I;m sure there ar ethings yoiu liked about BG1 that I didn't.

 

 

"But this was one aspect in which earlier RPGS did a bit better in."

 

Oh really? I'm surprised you used plural form here. Ultima can be argued to be better in this aspect. No doubt about it. But, what other earlier RPGs were in either BG or Ultima's class when it came to character interaction? I cna't think of any unless its some obscure one. Certianly not the GB games, M&M, Wizardry, Bard's Tale, etc. Most of these are basiclaly exploration/dungeon crawling games. Very light on actual role-playing.

Edited January 28, 2006 by Volourn

[Gabrielle]

I have to agree with Mr. Alanschu here.  It is unfortunate that some of today's games still do not have the quality of baldur's Gate, a game that is almost a decade old.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I blame it on consoles. Consoles = short attention span gamers and short game time.

[Darque]

I blame it on consoles. Consoles = short attention span gamers and short game time.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Coming from someone who's never played a console game, nor owns a console, that means.. zip.

[Gabrielle]

I blame it on consoles. Consoles = short attention span gamers and short game time.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Coming from someone who's never played a console game, nor owns a console, that means.. zip.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually I have played them. When I was with my ex he had an X-box. Which is how I was able to play K2 when it first came out.

[Darque]

A hexbox isn't a console, it's a PC-lite and thus doesn't count.

[Gabrielle]

Of course it's a console. Don't even think of mentioning pc and that thing in the same sentence.

[Judge Hades]

I blame the rising costs of producing games and the nil increase of the retail price. Games cost as much now as they did 10 years ago for the consumer while have increased greatly to produce.

[Haitoku]

I blame it on consoles. Consoles = short attention span gamers and short game time.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Coming from someone who's never played a console game, nor owns a console, that means.. zip.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually I have played them. When I was with my ex he had an X-box. Which is how I was able to play K2 when it first came out.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Eh, why would you play a console whos only purpose is to play inferior versions of the same games that are already on the PC?

[Fairplay]

1. Shadows of Amn. It was quite a big game. I really liked the stronghold concept. They took the partner/relationship system in BG1 and made it fun. The characters were well written. I know this is sacrilige to most people- but I thought the characters that join you were better than the ones in PS:T. There were more of them and they had more psychological depth and more interesting stories.

 

I liked the fact there were major quests to fulfill for each NPC.

 

Sure, PS: T had interesting and zany characters like Morte, rat-girl, etc. - but while the basic concept was interesting, they never really drew me into their personal stories and their relationships and personal development was a *yawn* IMO.

 

Also, Unlike many RPGs before it, the NPCs stuck around even after you dismissed them. It always causes me anxiety when NPCs disappear or go beserk (like in ToEE).

 

The voice work was great. BG 1 had nice voicework, but BG 2 was great. It was at least as good as games like Grand Theft Auto, but without even having the celebrity factor working for them. (or is that nostalgia?)

 

Basically, I thought SoA was a great game with lots of content and many many extra touches that most other game developers wouldn't put in (like class specific strongholds).

 

2. BG 1(w/ TotSC) - The ambitious first project. Big game. Lots of NPCs.

 

3. PS: T - It was a good game. I liked the originality of the main character design. They played with some cool concepts (like the insect pets) but didn't really successfully develop any. I didn't think the story was bad, but I didn't think it was anything to rave about. Also, the CD killed my disk drive, so maybe I should recuse myself from this case.

 

4.Throne of Bhaal. It was too linear. However, viewed simply as an add-on, it was quite adequate. It added some more details to Sarevok's character. I liked it.

 

5. IWD - I just don't like the concept. Hack n' slash without much plot development. No NPCs to develop. System that doesn't allow for much customization of characters except a little at generation. What's the point? I guess if you liked that kind of game, it might be okay, but Diablo might be better.

 

6. IWD 2. It was probably better than IWD, but I never played it.

[Gabrielle]

Eh, why would you play a console whos only purpose is to play inferior versions of the same games that are already on the PC?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Because my ex needed a play mate on some of the games that were not single player or in K2's case it was released before the PC. I wasn't going to wait a couple months until it was released.

 

BG2's voice work was great, too bad it wasn't all voiced.

Edited January 28, 2006 by Gabrielle

[Gorgon]

Rat Girl ?

 

Insect pets ?.

 

 

 

I don't think you played the game, or else your memory is pretty fuzzy :D

Edited January 28, 2006 by Gorgon

[Darque]

Of course it's a console. Don't even think of mentioning pc and that thing in the same sentence.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

All it is is a stripped down pc.

 

It even uses a version of windows as it's OS.

 

:p j00 loze n00b :p

[Fairplay]

There was a tiefling that used punch-daggers in the game, right? I call her rat-girl because I can't remember her name and she had a tail.

 

The insects were in the game. I like to play RPGs thouroughly. You could interact with them very much like familiars in SoA. I forget what they were called, but you could buy them from a merchant someplace in the ciy, I think.

[Musopticon?]

The rat-girl's name was Annah.

 

The insect-looking creatures were Lim-lims. They looked vaguely like frogs with wings.

[Sermon]

IWD was a hack and slash dungeon crawl as far as I am concerned. BG1 actually had a good storyline.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

BG1 was, at its core, equally as hack'n slash as IWD1 and the "good storyline" you are refering to was paper-thin, clichee-ridden, standard fantasy fare. Not bad, but nothing to be proud of and by no means any better than IWD1's storyline.