Piracy

[Pidesco]

I should start by saying that I have no idea about what to do to solve piracy. I think if the prices of games were lower it would help a bit but I don't even know if it's feasible to lower the prices at all.

 

Anyway, I think that piracy is one of the biggest problems with video gaming. It affects the amount of money that get to developers. It makes investment in the gaming industry seem like an iffy idea. It's plain stealing.

 

 

So, does anyone have any ideas on what can be done about piracy?

 

 

P.S.: What do Obsidian's devs think of piracy?

[Volourn]

Pirates should be find, and eventually jailed like any thief if caught.

[Diamond]

^ Now, that's just begging for a flamewar.

*puts on flame-resistant suit* :ph34r:

 

EDIT:

This topic was discussed several times, check recent threads.

Edited November 22, 2005 by Diamond

[Lord Tingeling]

It's debatable wheter piracy is "plain stealing" from a moral perspective (seeing as nothing is outright stolen, save perhaps from some abstract "potential revenue" or similar), and from a legal perspective (which is the perspective that matters most when discussing, uh, legality), it's even more so.

 

That said, as to what can be done about it- I'd say nothing that interfers with the doings of the customers that do pay. Not like most copy protection holds up to the dedicated release teams, anyway.

[Surreptishus]

Before we get into definitions of piracy and stealing etc.

 

Is there some solid evidence that would lead one to believe that piracy is having a visible adverse effect on the games industry as a whole?

[><FISH'>]

Yes.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

I think we should just hang pirates like we did in the old days.

[kumquatq3]

I think we should just hang pirates like we did in the old days.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Only if they get ships with cannons...and a parrot that says witty things

[~Di]

Piracy is indeed stealing. It is the act of using a product without paying for it. Morally and legally, it is theft, pure and simple. All the manipulative yapping I've read in the past about how "nobody loses money because I wouldn't have bought the game anyway" or "I have a right to see if I want it first" or "games cost too much, so I'm entitled to steal it" or any of the other ridiculous claims I've read over the years mean nothing.

 

Someone has created a product and set a price for it's use. Those who use that product without paying for it have stolen it.

 

Period.

 

According to the gaming industry itself, piracy cost millions of dollars in lost revenue. Ask any developer what they think of piracy. Ask if it affects their profitability. Ask what percentage they use on their balance sheets to offset losses by piracy. Ask what percentage of the retail price is jacked up to help offset those losses. In other words, just like the manufacturers of clothing, etc., increase the price of their products to cover shoplifting and theft, requiring honest patrons to subsidize thieves, so does the cost of legitimately-purchased video games subsidize loss by piracy.

 

No, I'm not going to Google up a bunch of sources. Those who are determined to get something for nothing wouldn't care about them anyway. This is a hot-button issue for me, though, so I couldn't resist adding my thoughts to the mix.

[Hurlshort]

I agree with squiggly line Di 100%. Many pirates don't recognize the hard work and creativity that goes into today's media. Even a bad game or movie takes the blood, sweat, and tears of people to come to fruittion. When you pirate, you piss on them. You may think that's funny, but it's not, it means you are morally bankrupt.

[Kaftan Barlast]

You CANT stop piracy. The hackers are smarter, and always will be smarter than the suits who come up with expensive schemes that are either effortlessly circumvented(safedisc) or backfire(SONY rootkit)

 

 

The best thing to do is actually to take the pain and get on with it. Purchasing an elaborate protection system will cost you money without actually selling more games.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Rope is very cheap

[kirottu]

you are morally bankrupt.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

So... When I pirate pr0n am I twice as bad or do these two things kinda negate each other out?

[Lord Tingeling]

You CANT stop piracy. The hackers are smarter, and always will be smarter than the suits who come up with expensive schemes that are either effortlessly circumvented(safedisc) or backfire(SONY rootkit)

 

 

The best thing to do is actually to take the pain and get on with it. Purchasing an elaborate protection system will cost you money without actually selling more games.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The best method is, ultimately, the plain old CD-key. Cheap, and prevents the pirates from playing the game on the internet. Most other stuff is worthless at best or can actually prevent paying customers from playing at worst.

Edited November 22, 2005 by Lord Tingeling

[Calax]

you are morally bankrupt.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

So... When I pirate pr0n am I twice as bad or do these two things kinda negate each other out?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'd say negate.

[kumquatq3]

you are morally bankrupt.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

So... When I pirate pr0n am I twice as bad or do these two things kinda negate each other out?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I found that statement pretty funny too

[Meshugger]

Personally, i think the whole piracy-issue is overblown. If one is reading the boards at warez-communities, every game-release has it's own poll if it's buyable or not. Those games who get high rating, tend to sell good aswell(HL2, Halo 2 and so on). Also, games like RPG's, already have their hardcore fanbase that buys the games no matter what. And as third argument, most games that are pirated are intentionally left with the multiplayer part untouched, as a carrot for those who liked the single player campaign. (=You have to buy the game if you want to play online)

 

The best way to tackle piracy, IMO, is to give the consumer more options like they've done with movie-industry: Designing the cases to look like they're actually worth something, bonus material, extras, unlockable content and so on.

[~Di]

So in order to stop thieves, the goods should be made even more appealing? That makes no sense to me. I've yet to see the enhancement of a product's value turn would-be thieves into moral, upstanding citizens who say, in effect, "Gee, this XXXX is now so wonderful that I will no longer steal it, I will pay for it instead." Perhaps I'm misunderstanding your meaning, but I don't believe that the victims should be held responsible for the behavior of those who steal from them.

 

Piracy is not an overblown problem to those who depend upon revenues from pirated products in order to pay their own bills. I think if you ask anyone in the video game industry how serious piracy is to their financial stability, you'll find they consider it close to if not the Number One problem in the industry.

[Kaftan Barlast]

So in order to stop thieves, the goods should be made even more appealing?  That makes no sense to me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Thats because you jump the reply button without reading what he was actually saying.

 

 

If you give buyers a carrot like a big box that includes a tshirt, 24page colour booklet with concept art, a DVD with making-of video, a bag of licorice shaped likes Feargus's head etc. that CANT be digitized and shared as a torrent.. some people will buy the pack to get the goodies

[BattleCookiee]

A carrot like a big box that includes a tshirt, 24page colour booklet with concept art, a DVD with making-of video, a bag of licorice shaped likes Feargus's head etc.

 

Costs also alot of money to be made...especially if you have to stuff it in every version...

[Sarjahurmaaja.]

Yeah, well, you want to stop piracy, don't you?

[Drakron]

Well DVD lower sales are being blamed on piracy ...

 

This tread will resolve in nothing because we have piracy going for ages ... and the methods to fight it?

 

Sony latest copy protection was useless for CD mass copy machines (since they copy the entire CD content) and so the people that actually profit from it were not affected.

 

The ones that were was the "casual pirates" that simply rip the song and put in on a P2P network.

 

And the price to not stopping the people that are actually profit from piracy?

 

Users that could not even use iTunes to play the music.

 

That is the problem with the whole "anti-piracy" messures, they dont target the tradictional pirates that mass copy software and make a profit from it, they target the casual pirates that put stuff online.

 

And why?

 

Because its visible, its efforts are nothing but smoke and mirrors to account for "loss profit" ...

[BattleCookiee]

That is the problem with the whole "anti-piracy" messures, they dont target the tradictional pirates that mass copy software and make a profit from it, they target the casual pirates that put stuff online.

 

And why?

 

Well "Profit makers" do need people who want to buy it and need costumers.

 

That is alot less worse than people who can get it for free, by just clicking a link.

 

Just think, in the time the "profit maker" sells one copy, 1000's of copies could be DL'ed from the web.

 

Now, the spreaders for the DL may not get cash out of it, but guess what gives more loss to the music company if it get's pirated, 1 CD (of the "profit maker", or 1000 (from DL)?

 

Also note alot of "profit makers" make profit because they DL'ed it, and than offer it for cash to less technical people...

Edited November 22, 2005 by Battlewookiee

[~Di]

Again, we're putting the onus of stopping piracy on the victims. Shipping out a big box of tangible goodies that cost mucho bucks in the hope that a few folks will decide to pay the over-inflated cost of those goodies rather than stealing the game is probably not financially feasible. I doubt it would have much fiscal impact overall, except that it would increase the cost of the "special edition" type product and make it even more difficult to cover the expense of creating those goodies in the first place.

 

Bottom line, I think piracy should be stopped (or at least fought) the same way other crime is... by vigorously prosecuting the thieves. That means going after not only the owners of websites offering pirated downloads, but also the "customers" of these websites. Nothing like being arrested and fined to make someone think twice about stealing that next game.

 

Eventually I suspect that game download sites, like music download sites, will have charges tacked on that will go back to development companies, and as new illegal sites pop up the "web cops" will hit them fast and hard where it hurts... in the pocketbook. If there is no price to pay for crime, then crime runs rampant. Wanna stop piracy? Prosecute the pirates. Make it hurt.

[Pidesco]

Here's a thought: what if a big name developer offered a game for a much lower price only over the internet (without a publisher). Do you people think the amount of piracy for this game would be a lot less?