Western RPGs dying out?

[Craigboy2]

Are there any Western RPG games?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

When I say western I mean RPGs made in America, as apposed to Japen.

[Gorth]

Are there any Western RPG games?

When I say western I mean RPGs made in America, as apposed to Japen. >_

America as in the US ?

 

In that case, you can't really include Bioware, they are Canadian. Doesn't count then

[Craigboy2]

Are there any Western RPG games?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

When I say western I mean RPGs made in America, as apposed to Japen.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

America as in the US ?

 

In that case, you can't really include Bioware, they are Canadian. Doesn't count then

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Where are you from Quebec? Quite you! Canada is officially part of America, whether you like it or not.

 

Western as in the American west of the late 1800's, gunfighters, cows, horses, deserts, big hats,  stuff like that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!

 

"It seems like Bioware seems to have completely sold out, especially now that they joined up with Pandemic."

 

You do not know what you are talking about, and logic is misisng from your post. Completely.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't like to use logic or grammar.

And I hated JE and I didn't say KOTOR2 was the best game ever. I just said that it was a linear game that Obsidian made. For God's sake! Read my post next time.

 

I still don't think the western RPG's are dying. They are in a deep slump, but sooner or later a real quality game will come along (one that will sell more than 600k..) and revive the genre, like has happened several times already throughout the short history of computer games. Who knows, maybe Obsidian will be the ones to do it when they get to work on their own project?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ya, you're probably right.

 

"You might be right. But unfortunately that says a lot more about the quality of roleplaying in Bioware games than it does about Jade Empire."

 

It measn they have improved in this department. And, BIO's games have better role-playing than the majority of 'old skool RPFs' except possibly  Ultima.

 

No it doesn't, you couldn't really role-play in JE. Everything was pretty dam linear and there was like what? Six people to choose from.

 

" I mean, if a 'RPG' with crappy combat, shoot'em up sequences (which were crappy too), no real inventory and really meaningless skills are the best that Bioware can produce"

 

Combat in JE was awesome. And, I don't care for Rt combat much.

It was extremely repetitive and you could defeat any enemy by dodge and hit and repeat till the enemy's dead.

 

The shoot 'em ups wer eok; but I don't care about them really. Never even finished the quest for it either.

 

It had inventory. It just didn't let you have 80000 wepaons, potions, and crap. Besdies inevntory does not = role-playing.

It didn't have an inventory, it had a amulet and you could put crystals in it to give you bonuses. That's all.

 

What menaingless skills? Surely no more meaningles sksills than your average Western RPG.

I would hardly call them meaningless.

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Words in red are my responses.

Edited November 5, 2005 by Craigboy2

[metadigital]

Western as in the American west of the late 1800's, gunfighters, cows, horses, deserts, big hats,  stuff like that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think the meaning sought was for the occident, rather than specifically the period of the US frontiersmen.

[metadigital]

...

Personally I believe that western RPG's as we know them might be about to change. But I wouldn't call it dying; I'd call it evolving. Developers are experimenting by mixing genres, and some blends work, others don't. They'll learn from their mistakes though, and as they do, RPG's evolve into something else. ...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

evolution 4TW! Survival of the fittest game to entertain us.

[GhostofAnakin]

I really could go for a "Wild West" style cowboys and indians RPG. I think it would be an interesting change of pace for a RPG setting and story.

[metadigital]

Agreed.

[Plano Skywalker]

I really could go for a "Wild West" style cowboys and indians RPG.  I think it would be an interesting change of pace for a RPG setting and story.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

agree as well....there are all kinds of stuff you could do with that era....thing is, it is not just about shooting, it is a genre that could be ripe with intense, immersive stories.

 

someone metioned a "groundhog day" kind of RPG. I would go for that in an American West setting.

[Darque]

I only want one if it's in the Deadlands setting

 

Though I'll probably get Gun as it has voices done by...

 

Ron Perlman -and- Lance Henriksen

[Gabrielle]

I only want one if it's in the Deadlands setting

 

Though I'll probably get Gun as it has voices done by...

 

Ron Perlman  -and- Lance Henriksen 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Lance I liked him in Millennium.

[Gabrielle]

I really could go for a "Wild West" style cowboys and indians RPG.  I think it would be an interesting change of pace for a RPG setting and story.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That would be nice. Swords and laser gun RPGs get tiring after a while.

[kirottu]

I only want one if it's in the Deadlands setting

 

Though I'll probably get Gun as it has voices done by...

 

Ron Perlman  -and- Lance Henriksen 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Lance I liked him in Millennium.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I liked it better than X-files. Lance has a face that has seen life.

[Gabrielle]

X-Files I liked but Millennium was better, darker. True about Lance, he has the face that seen a lot in the world and not all of it good.

[Gromnir]

I think it should also be clarified what definition of RPG is being used. To me, an RPG is any game that lets you change the game world and interact with the inhabitants in a meaningful way.  By that definition, there are plenty of RPG's being made, both in the Western World as well as in Japan and Korea.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

like the sims, right?

 

...

 

normally Gromnir is first in line to debate mintuiae and nomenclature, but this is one of those cases wherein such is counter-productive. in pont of fact, bulock's observation has been a sorta obsidian board red herring (masquerading as a hydra) for some time. can't have a thread 'bout crpgs w/o somebody trying to shift debate to questions of deffinition.

 

the lines 'tween and twixt what is and is not a crpg is blurring. fine. congrats. you win. move on.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Musopticon?]

Agreed.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Me too. Add in shamanism cue Blueberry, and you'd have a winner.

[kalimeeri]

Of course, seeing a characters face whilst hearing a real actor say the lines makes it seem a lot deeper than if youre staring at a sprite and reading text

 

It depends, though.

 

For me, hearing actors voice (dialogue voiceover) is somewhat... less enjoyable.

Classic RPG is like reading a book - poor visual character details and no (or little) voiceover makes me imagine, rather than observe, hence resulting in more comfortable picture in general.

I see what I want to see, I hear what I want to hear.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

I agree with both viewpoints. The imagination part is like reading a really good novel; it's open to personal interpretation and preferences. Just putting a voice or even a face into the equation limits that. I think that's one reason why many movies made from books are so disappointing.

 

I like hearing the words spoken, too--but only if it's done well. I don't believe that games in general have tapped into the power of good voice-acting, the kind that adds to the meaning and emotional impact of the words, and actually defines the character speaking. One exception was Kotor2. Kreia's VA was awesome; the other characters were uniformly good to excellent. But many games are cringe-worthy, you just want to turn the 'voice' off. It has nothing to do with whether the acting is done by a big name actor or not; voice acting in a game requires different skills.

 

I see it as the lack of attention to a resource that can and should be used to its fullest, the same way music and graphics and fine dialogue should be. It's sad that games (and movies!) that get it all in balance--let alone do it right--are so rare.

 

As far as 'Western' RPG's go, I'm just keeping my head down until the current storm of MMORPG's passes, and hoping the cycle comes around again. I haven't seen much of late that I feel is worth playing, from any side of the globe. Some of the dev's seem to be experimenting, or going for the quick gold, or something, taking elements from every successful game they can think of, and mixing them all together. The shotgun approach gives the impression they didn't really know what they wanted to do. Juggling so many elements, none of them done as well as the original, more often than not ends up a muddled flop. I'm not against experimentation, or evolution. But there's nothing wrong with doing one thing, and doing it exceptionally well, either.

[CoM_Solaufein]

Where are you from Quebec? Quite you! Canada is officially part of America, whether you like it or not.

Nothing about Canada is America. Some day we may assimilate them, but not now. Too many damned French Canadians.

[CoM_Solaufein]

I really could go for a "Wild West" style cowboys and indians RPG.  I think it would be an interesting change of pace for a RPG setting and story.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

A Western RPG? Sounds good since I like Western movies.

[Kaftan Barlast]

Yes, there's bearly any left.

 

 

Huh huh huhu... you said bear

[metadigital]

Agreed.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Me too. Add in shamanism cue Blueberry, and you'd have a winner.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Exactly.

 

I didn't have time to elucidate fully at 7:37 am this morning but the whole Native American culture is ripe for exploitation, such that both the game genre and the culture may benefit mutually.

 

There is a rich heritage, pantheon and social fabric on which to base several classes including all the bases:

• clerics (medicine men / shaman)
  
• fighters (braves / warriors, chieftains = ranger class) that can use all sorts of edge weapons and quivers full of arrows for their various bows, not to mention more exotic weapons, like boomerangs
  
• ninja sneak-up-and-flip-out-and-kill-everyoners (super-espionage agents of assassin class, without the alignment restriction)
  
• armed technologists (probably could use a Victorian Steam setting, similar to Arcanum)
  

Doesn't need to be restricted to the US frontier, either; might just as well be in a different universe: even aliens might make an appearance! There is too much copycat-cut-and-paste in RPGs: too many orcs and blinking elves.

 

[GhostofAnakin]

There is a rich heritage, pantheon and social fabric on which to base several classes including all the bases:

• clerics (medicine men / shaman)
   
  
• fighters (braves / warriors, chieftains = ranger class) that can use all sorts of edge weapons and quivers full of arrows for their various bows, not to mention more exotic weapons, like boomerangs
   
  
• ninja sneak-up-and-flip-out-and-kill-everyoners (super-espionage agents of assassin class, without the alignment restriction)
   
  
• armed technologists (probably could use a Victorian Steam setting, similar to Arcanum)
  

Doesn't need to be restricted to the US frontier, either; might just as well be in a different universe: even aliens might make an appearance! There is too much copycat-cut-and-paste in RPGs: too many orcs and blinking elves.

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Exactly. There's enough "character templates" available between the various cowboy and indian archetypes to have variety in choosing the type of character you want to make.

 

I'd actually be quite stoked for this type of RPG. I'm curious why no one's thought to develope this kind of game.

[Jediphile]

Yes, I'd agree that there are hardly any good RPGs left, though I do remain more confident that we'll see it turn the other way in the future. I think it will be a few years before that, though.

 

Besides, there is still the question of what exactly makes an RPG?

 

To me playing a character that can interact with an impact his/her world is not enough, because that is true in almost any game. Is Far Cry an RPG? Is Jedi Academy? How about the Monkey Island games? Don't get me wrong, I like those games, but I don't think they're RPGs, because to be an RPG you need to have genuine choice and the solution to the game's problems must be non-linear or at least have enough possible solutions to appear so.

 

The Ultima and Fallout games are among the better RPGs we've seen, but that said, there was still some way to go even there, before they got anywhere close to the potential of tabletop PnP RPGs. Not that I'd demand that, but I would set it as a standard for what a CRPG has to aim for, and today the so-called RPGs don't get very close.

 

Even decent CRPGs like KotOR or Gothic aren't really all that close the RPG concept, as they follow woefully fixed and linear plotlines with few or often no real choice for the player. To me they're closer to glorified adventure games with role-playing elements thrown in than to actual RPGs. And again, I love Monkey Island, but that doesn't mean it's an RPG.

 

Now, I do accept that it is impossible to create a program that allows me to do or try ANYTHING I can think of, but even so, I still find the given choices in CRPGs today to be rather limited. Take KotOR where your only real choice is wether you want to be evil or good in the various situations. But no matter which you choose, it won't affect how the plot unfolds at all, except to allow an ending for either side. You can't make an alliance with Sion or Nihilus, nor can you choose to kill members in your group (which probably annoys lots of people...). Heck, you can't even choose NOT to have them follow you around...

 

You might think from this that I'd prefer the big MMORPGs out there, since they offer lots of choice and freedom in interaction. Well, no... Because while MMORPGs indeed have lots of potential, they are generally so generic that they have next to no plot or character development. They're still in their infancy, and it shows too - it's far too much munchkin-hackfest for my taste. I played Diablo II a few years back, and while it was some fun to play through the first time, it definitely wasn't an RPG in my book. Sure, there have been lots of better MMORPGs since then, but they still seem to be to offer nothing better, except flasher graphics and sound, better buffs and powerups, and high munchkin-factors - none of which is ultimately compelling to me.

 

I do think it'll change, though. In a few years, the technology will have advanced to a point where far more options will be available to the developers. Once that happens, we'll see (MMO)RPGs that allow amazing things, at least on the pc.

[thepixiesrock]

Does he mean "Western RPG's" with like cowboys and stuff?

[Volourn]

"nor can you choose to kill members in your group"

 

You sure about this?

 

 

"You can't make an alliance with Sion or Nihilus"

 

That's because they don't want to be your friend. They don't like you. Why would they make an alliance with you?

 

 

"But no matter which you choose, it won't affect how the plot unfolds at all, except to allow an ending for either side"

 

Thanks for admitting that your chocies do effect the game, the world, and the ending.

 

Now, stop embarassing yourself.

Edited November 5, 2005 by Volourn

[metadigital]

...

"You can't make an alliance with Sion or Nihilus"

 

That's because they don't want to be your friend. They don't like you. Why would they make an alliance with you?

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Payment where it's due, Volo.