Why twitch gamers suck

[Llyranor]

Isn't that my job?

[Musopticon?]

Add in the fact you are a BioMod and a supporter of the Aurora Engine, which has definte twitch based comabt, it seems very hypocritical. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And I am a Obsidian mod

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

What the heck?

[alanschu]

Well its hard to discuss this topic if your not even going to bother reading the artcle. If your not going to invest the time to do so I see little reason to do the same.

 

There was no point to read your article because the stuff spouted in the abstract that you presented didn't make any sense.

 

My point of the article is the flood of twitch gamers who want to put their brand of gameplay on the CRPG genre. Mindless, non-stop combat and paperthin linear story/gameplay and they are happy to call it a CRPG. Thats my issue

 

What fantasy world are you living in where games like the Gold Box games didn't exist?

 

Earlier Sir Tech games (and Ultima games and so on) were all heavily combat based. The Gold Box games were power gamer's dreams. I don't recall Eye of the Beholder really being that quality in terms of the storyline.

 

EDIT: My bad.

[Shadowstrider]

Whether you agree or disagree with someone, please refrain from employing personalized attacks.

[alanschu]

Editted.

 

Sorry.

[Rhomal]

Was there a point to all this other than the apparent self promotion? 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Its called fostering discussion and perhaps some interesting/productive debate.

 

[sarcasm] I can see by the recent threads on these forums that such really isnt needed, what was I thinking? Certainly Obsidian was foolish to want to shut these forums down with all the high brow and reasoned discussion. [/sarcasm]

 

I will refrain from posting such in the future, as apparently you people perfer posting comical images and laughing like oblivious teenagers and hurling insults over anything else.

 

My bad.

[Musopticon?]

Yeah, about that perch...

[kirottu]

Was there a point to all this other than the apparent self promotion? 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Its called fostering discussion and perhaps some interesting/productive debate.

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Then try to answer the critique.

[alanschu]

Was there a point to all this other than the apparent self promotion? 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Its called fostering discussion and perhaps some interesting/productive debate.

 

[sarcasm] I can see by the recent threads on these forums that such really isnt needed, what was I thinking? Certainly Obsidian was foolish to want to shut these forums down with all the high brow and reasoned discussion. [/sarcasm]

 

I will refrain from posting such in the future, as apparently you people perfer posting comical images and laughing like oblivious teenagers and hurling insults over anything else.

 

My bad.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Still curious what the verdict is on all those Gold Box games that were D&D hackfests prior to all the RTS/FPS games becoming legendary?

 

I think you've deluded yourself into thinking things are different. The old school Sir Tech games were combat heavy as well.

[alanschu]

Ok, I just read your entire article (enjoy the free hit), and you still contradict yourself.

 

You cry out for game developers to adapt and chastize those that don't. But then criticize those that adapt.

 

 

[Darth Barth]

Why do some RPG players live under the impression that they are more intelligent than other players just because they like one dying genre of computer games?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Its the same impulse as when you see old men lament the bygone days of the cinematic musical.

[mkreku]

I will refrain from posting such in the future, as apparently you people perfer posting comical images and laughing like oblivious teenagers and hurling insults over anything else.

Actually, I think your article kind of set the level for this discussion, and the thread never went above it. I'm sure you thought the article was well-written and well thought-out, but apparently me (and most of the rest of the board members) did not.

[Mordaedil]

Usually, discussions go beneath the level, not above it. Which is quite appearant here...

 

Read the article as: Rhomal does not have a problem with twitch games themselves, he enjoys them himself. The problem arose when people on the Bio-Obsidian forums posted as if they wanted the game to become the next Diablo-like game, rather than the next Baldur's Gate.

 

Speed-clicking, linear story-lines, little focus on the character's developement all deviates from how the RPG genre should be. The suggestions leads up into dividing the RPG genre into two branches, and labeling the game by what standard you go by.

 

At least that is how I understood Rhomal in this article. Even though the article headline could be put more mildly, it's not so easy, if you had seen the crowd we attend at the Bioboards.

[Guest Fishboot]

Usually, discussions go beneath the level, not above it. Which is quite appearant here...

 

Read the article as: Rhomal does not have a problem with twitch games themselves, he enjoys them himself. The problem arose when people on the Bio-Obsidian forums posted as if they wanted the game to become the next Diablo-like game, rather than the next Baldur's Gate.

 

Speed-clicking, linear story-lines, little focus on the character's developement all deviates from how the RPG genre should be. The suggestions leads up into dividing the RPG genre into two branches, and labeling the game by what standard you go by.

 

At least that is how I understood Rhomal in this article. Even though the article headline could be put more mildly, it's not so easy, if you had seen the crowd we attend at the Bioboards.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

It may, perhaps, have been more effective for Rhomal to type, "Don't make RPGs like Diablo." or even, "Don't make NWN2 like Diablo." rather than this weirdly unfocused ramble that seems to bounce randomly between taste-aggrandizement, strangly misplaced blame, questionable understanding of scale and context and selective RPG history while having a title that is at best tangentially related to this cryptothesis you've outlined.

 

Of course, I haven't been to the Bio boards so I have no idea what baroque style one must use to communicate there.

[alanschu]

I also fail to see how Fallout, a game Rhomal used as support for good RPG games, are a reflection of the evolution that he wants in RPGs like Baldur's Gate.

 

I fail to see the RTS/FPS influences in Fallout.

[213374U]

I will refrain from posting such in the future, as apparently you people perfer posting comical images and laughing like oblivious teenagers and hurling insults over anything else.

Oh, right. It's so irresponsible of us to be doing such pointless things when the RPG industry Armageddon is upon us. Ah, what would it be of us oblivious teenagers without old skool crusaders like yourself to tell us what is right and what is wrong.

 

I'll sleep better tonight knowing that you'll be there watching over the development of Great Games.

 

You go, man. Fight the good fight.

[Mordaedil]

It may, perhaps, have been more effective for Rhomal to type, "Don't make RPGs like Diablo." or even, "Don't make NWN2 like Diablo." rather than this weirdly unfocused ramble that seems to bounce randomly between taste-aggrandizement, strangly misplaced blame, questionable understanding of scale and context and selective RPG history while having a title that is at best tangentially related to this cryptothesis you've outlined.

 

Of course, I haven't been to the Bio boards so I have no idea what baroque style one must use to communicate there.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That is the true jist of it. We were all like-minded back a year ago when everyone posted on these boards. But on the BioBoards we get all kind of whimsical creeps, both strayers from NWN forum and people with veritile little understanding of what makes a good game.

 

Rhomal was more a protest to set a waking call in thoose people, then anything people here really needs concern themselves with.

 

No need to concern yourself with the man, when he is trying to deal with people with an average IQ of 75 on this other forum.

[alanschu]

He needs more sensationalism then:

 

 

NWN2 WILL MAKE YOU ITS BIATCH!

[metadigital]

Was there a point to all this other than the apparent self promotion? 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's called fostering discussion and perhaps some interesting/productive debate.

 

[sarcasm] I can see by the recent threads on these forums that such really isn't needed, what was I thinking? Certainly Obsidian was foolish to want to shut these forums down with all the high brow and reasoned discussion. [/sarcasm]

 

My bad.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Fixed

[Cantousent]

Usually, discussions go beneath the level, not above it. Which is quite appearant here...

 

Read the article as: Rhomal does not have a problem with twitch games themselves, he enjoys them himself. The problem arose when people on the Bio-Obsidian forums posted as if they wanted the game to become the next Diablo-like game, rather than the next Baldur's Gate.

 

Speed-clicking, linear story-lines, little focus on the character's developement all deviates from how the RPG genre should be. The suggestions leads up into dividing the RPG genre into two branches, and labeling the game by what standard you go by.

 

At least that is how I understood Rhomal in this article. Even though the article headline could be put more mildly, it's not so easy, if you had seen the crowd we attend at the Bioboards.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

It may, perhaps, have been more effective for Rhomal to type, "Don't make RPGs like Diablo." or even, "Don't make NWN2 like Diablo." rather than this weirdly unfocused ramble that seems to bounce randomly between taste-aggrandizement, strangly misplaced blame, questionable understanding of scale and context and selective RPG history while having a title that is at best tangentially related to this cryptothesis you've outlined.

 

Of course, I haven't been to the Bio boards so I have no idea what baroque style one must use to communicate there.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Sometimes I think you're absolutely vicious. On the other hand, I think Rhomal completely missed the mark on this one. Folks should spend more time trying to make their own preferences more appealing than trying to convince others that their interests suck. We could try to bring more so-called "twitch gamers" into the RPG fold, but I don't think the core RPG players really want their hobby to be popular. If the unwashed masses start to play, then where will their elitism be?

 

Unless it involves something truly perverse, I don't think individual interests should be the target of scorn or ridicule. For example: I think tv sucks. ...But I don't assume the worst about someone because he happens to enjoy tv. I think he might have bad taste, but that's as far as I can go without coming dangerously close to showing my own shortcomings.

 

Of course, I'm biased. I enjoy RPGs more than any other genre, but I'm an avid FPS gamer, and I'll play a good action RPG with the best of them. Dungeon Siege 2 has been fun, although I preferred the first game.

[Darque]

Was there a point to all this other than the apparent self promotion? 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Its called fostering discussion and perhaps some interesting/productive debate.

 

 

You sure go about it the wrong way.

 

Rants rarely if ever create "productive" debate because by their very nature, rants are counter productive.

 

My bad.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You can say that again.

[zer"0"]

RE: OP.>

I can see where Rhomal is coming from, or least the point he's trying to make.

 

A rallying battlecry for "true" hardcore RP'ers... :heh: ALAS it goes unnoticed, less even, than a cosmic speck of dust in the undergarments of the universe herself.

 

From where I am sitting (which admittedly is pretty high).

Objectively speaking.

I don't think we'll ever see the likes of Planescape:Torment or Fallout again. 'twas another time and another world when those games were made.

 

I daresay we'll never see another BGII as well.

 

All we can do, is to ... Put your money where your mouth is.

Look at Jeff Vogel and Spiderweb software. Look at Avernum and Geneforge, and if you like it. Recommend it to your friends. Support the effort.

 

Gamebiz Industry today is in a bottleneck. Catch-22 if you will. Killer competition, demands killer graphics and bling-bling, leading to escalating costs. Ergo less time for attention to detail and depth (the little there is). Which goes a long way towards carrying a game to greatness.

Ala Fallout, warts and all.

 

Today, its all about the money baby.

 

 

We are the wave of the future. Here and Now. Today. - shadowrunner

[alanschu]

Although seriously, when has it not been all about the money?

[zer"0"]

Although seriously, when has it not been all about the money?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

True, true dat ...

 

Least, nowadays, seems like the sharks are forever in a feeding frenzy - and somebody done gone 'an thrown the baby out with the bathwater.

[Magnum Opus]

We could try to bring more so-called "twitch gamers" into the RPG fold, but I don't think the core RPG players really want their hobby to be popular.  If the unwashed masses start to play, then where will their elitism be?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I could be in the minority here regarding fans of cRPGs, but I don't think my preference for the more "hardcore" cRPGs has anything to do with elitism; I just like what those games offer. I don't play games for that quick fix or the adrenaline rush that others do. Nothing wrong with those types of games, but that's not what I'm looking for. I don't relax by winding myself up, wondering if there's a demon around the next corner that's going to make me wet myself and then proceed to rip my head off. The pace of the games I like is slow, and I can generally proceed how I wish and in a manner I wish; I play cRPGs for the same reason that people read fantasy literature: pure, unadulterated escapism. I prefer turn-based combat because it's slower and there generally isn't the same sort of immediacy that real time combat offers (incidentally, chopping up people and watching the blood fly is one area where I don't even want more realism in my games, and here as well, turn-based combat offers an abstraction, rather than an in-your-face, gross-you-out accuracy: shock value does absolutely nothing for me).

 

I know my preferences are (apparently) off the mark when it comes to the mainstream gaming community, and that's fine. I like well-written dialogue, a detailed and fleshed-out game world that I can constantly consider myself a part of (and no, a well-written plot doesn't provide the same benefit; well-written characters come a little closer to the mark, but what I'm really after is some sort of depth and consistency and completeness to the game world), and enough variety in the gameplay that I can feel that my choice of direction matters... even if it doesn't really affect anything. That doesn't make me better in any way; it just makes me weird... and I've known that for years now ). I play games to relax, and to fire my imagination. So-called "twitch" games, while they may provide that sort of thing for others, don't do that for me. Those games wind me up and get the blood pumping. Not what I'm after from my gaming experience.

 

Anyhoo, I don't really blame other genres for the state of current cRPG gaming, either. There's going to be some cross-pollination, as it were -- people see what works and they're going to try it out regardless of which genre it's traditionally worked in -- but even the hardcore DnD type games were moving to real time in the early 90's, all on their own. Menzoberranzan, Stone Prophet... first person realtime combat. The EoB series as well. Sometimes they try out things that I like, sometimes the things they try blow chunks; there are ideas coming from within the genre and without all the time. Eventually, someone's going to hit upon a combination that I really like, and when they do, hopefully I'll notice it. I freely admit that the type of game I like, however, is probably the most expensive and time-consuming game there is to make; that puts my preferences in a sort of niche right off the bat, and any company that constantly produces that type of game is likely going to go out of business pretty quickly.

 

Ah well.