Why twitch gamers suck

[Rhomal]

It is undeniable the influence first person shooters (FPS) and real time strategy (RTS) have had on computer RPG

[Judge Hades]

This is coming from the guy who is a BioMod and a NWN 2 fanatic.

 

Bioware set the path to real time combat in CRPGs in Baldur's Gate and continued it in NWN, KotOR, and JE. Take a good freaking look at the Infinity Engine. It can easily be used as a RTS game. The Aurora Engine can be used in FPS mode, frankly there are mods for NWN for that if memory serves.

 

Don't like it? Don't support Bioware and other development houses who follow that path.

[Musopticon?]

For probably the second time ever I have to agree with Visceris. Rhomal has eaten something rotten.

[Darque]

This rant seems kinda pointless.

[Drakron]

Well its pointless but true none the less.

 

The market is driven by fads, when BG became a success we had a explosion of cRPGs titles and then it lowered to today numbers ... a new fad today appears to be including RPG elements on other genders.

[Sarjahurmaaja.]

"Take a good freaking look at the Infinity Engine. It can easily be used as a RTS game."

 

If memory serves, that's what it was made for.

 

Random attacks at Rhomal's article follow:

 

"Of course this had a effect on those twitch gamers influencing CRPGs. Developers continued to dumb down CRPGs with simplistic plots, only solution to the vast majority of issues was combat (Hack & Slash) and one dimensional characters. "

 

I'd be willing to bet good money on majority of RPGs in the "good old days" being just the same, only uglier. And even the best ones barely reached the levels of BG's random one-liners from party members when it came to creating multidimensional characters.

 

"Compare BG 1 and 2 and you will see what I am speaking of. One example; these twitch gamers wanting the instant gratification complained and whined enough for Bioware to remove the large areas to explore. As apparently the horrid idea of

[Musopticon?]

Not subtle, yet not uncouth.

 

10+ TOMBS points

[Child of Flame]

 

I so wish I could slap you down right now!

[Guest Fishboot]

Indeed. Only half-wit degenerates play and enjoy RTS/FPG games. It takes fine, cultured senses and astronomical IQ to enjoy roleplaying games.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Heh.

 

I think that there's an elementary faultline in RPGs, which is how much they should be taking from P&P games. I remember getting the gold box games and thinking, "This will be just like Dungeons and Dragons except I won't have to herd nerds together to play!", and I think that's a desire that has informed CRPGs since the beginning. But you have to ask, is that really something that CRPGs need to do? I think it's obvious that CRPGs will not, for the forseeable future, even approach P&P's abilities in many areas, and so why not focus on what CRPGs *can* do?

 

I bring this up because I think the insistence on turn-based schemes is partly P&P fundamentalism. I know the "Player decides, character does." argument as an element of roleplaying, but there is the counterargument that strategy is also extra-character in nature.

 

Anyway, some of my favorite RPGs of all time are the Eye of the Beholder/Lands of Lore games, which began coming out in 1990 and were fully real-time, as were many of the later SSI D&D games [Edit - Video game history note, EoB/LoL were strongly derived from Dungeon Master, a very successful 1987 game]. I think experiments with real time RPGs began pretty much when it became technically feasible, and not because of some putrefaction of taste brought on by evil FPS and RTSes.

Edited September 7, 2005 by Fishboot

[mkreku]

Why do some RPG players live under the impression that they are more intelligent than other players just because they like one dying genre of computer games?

[Judge Hades]

Its called hubris.

[User Name]

pen

[Musopticon?]

Elitism?

[Child of Flame]

no 1 likd mi pictar?

[Petay]

no 1 likd mi pictar?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes. Yes I thought it amusing.

[Musopticon?]

Somewhat. Yes Eru, we still love you.

[Child of Flame]

Somewhat. Yes Eru, we still love you.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

)

[Llyranor]

Excuse me?

 

Some FPS are mindless. Some RTS are mindless. Some RPGs are mindless. Blaming one genre for another's flaws only makes you look biased.

 

Then again, some FPS allow me to participate in largely-organized teams and execute coordinated tactics via reliance on teammates. Voice communication is a boon. "There's a MG in that location, I'm pinned down." "Cover me, I'll flank them." "Clear that spot, there's a sniper, throw a grenade there." "At 3, we all burst in at the same time and overwhelm them." Real-time by itself does not make a game mindless, first person does not make a game mindless, shooter games by themselves are not mindless. Mindless FPS are mindless, "twitch" games. Many FPS are not.

 

Some RTS allow me to plan massive war efforts with my allies. "Help me defend this strategic point." "Go assault their back while I'm distracting them." "Bring in some AA, I'll lure them out." "Blow up that bridge, break their offense." "I'll sneak my army through that forest." This is not mindless.

 

Some RPGs provide me with rich and deep immersive roleplaying experiences. Others are crap. That does not make RPGs crap.

 

Twitch gamers don't suck, lollipops suck.

 

You, sir, are a lollipop.

[Nick_i_am]

Isn't Diablo 2 counted as a CRPG?

 

Reguardless, I actually agree with a sense of what he is saying, being that a twitch game, a game that relys almost ENTIRELY on reflex and individual skill makes for a boring game ultimately.

 

However, that is exactly the element that ruined games like CSS, which, while trying to encorage actual intelligence, simply made it way too easy for twich gamers to dominate.

 

This is why UT, a game that required team tactics in anything but deathmatch, still destroys Quake 3, a game that relys almost entirely on Twitch.

 

You, however, are still mostly talking out of your butt.

 

EDIT: haha, grammer.

[Gabrielle]

This rant seems kinda pointless. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

A lot of rants are pointless. It gives bord people something to talk about.

[Calax]

I've always wondered why they changed Unreal Tournament. I liked aussalt! Give it a face lift and a serious map pack and you'd be in even more business.

[Dhruin]

I also want to put equal blame on the CRPG developers of the time. Rather then try to innovate and wrap their hands around the new technologies they either kept the old mind sets and formulas [...]

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I like my "hardcore" cRPGs but I don't think the decline has anything to do with other genres as such. Anyway, this bit seems contradictory to me - you say they kept the old mind sets but isn't your whole complaint that cRPG makers didn't keep the old mindsets? What sort of innovation do you mean? Do you mean the latest graphics technologies?

[Llyranor]

I've always wondered why they changed Unreal Tournament. I liked aussalt! Give it a face lift and a serious map pack and you'd be in even more business.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I love assault mode in UT2k4. Gold.

[Rhomal]

I also want to put equal blame on the CRPG developers of the time. Rather then try to innovate and wrap their hands around the new technologies they either kept the old mind sets and formulas [...]

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I like my "hardcore" cRPGs but I don't think the decline has anything to do with other genres as such. Anyway, this bit seems contradictory to me - you say they kept the old mind sets but isn't your whole complaint that cRPG makers didn't keep the old mindsets? What sort of innovation do you mean? Do you mean the latest graphics technologies?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I was refering to the ones that went under like Sir Tech, as they were still producing very pondorous, crude looking CRPGs in the wake of the RTS and FPS boom, which in the end killed them. Later in that paragraph I state others went the action-rpg route.

 

I think if Sir Tech and SSI for exmaple, jumped on board with the RTS/FPS makers with the DX, and then infant 3D card technology they could have done a better job keeping their fan base and not loose as much due to little more then 'wow' factor.

 

For some reason back then it seemed it was a badge of honor for CRPGs to look a generation behind visuals. It seems the genre is just getting out of that mindset, that you -can- have strong visuals AND a good story.

[metadigital]

Elitism?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nothing wrong with elitism, per se. (Occassionally, and particularly in this case, I don't agree with the dictionary.com defintion: it is far too one-dimensionally perjorative. [Etymology: French