KotoR 3: Ideas and Suggestions

[Musopticon?]

If you're going to suggest 'Rebel' next, heads are gonna roll.

 

 

Sorry atowler, bad day.

[metadigital]

I think in part Shakespeare on the whole is often overrated.  He often rambles when he doesn't need to.

 

When we put on a Shakespeare play, it is custom to cut quite a bit, and still his plays are fairly wordy while rushing through at a brisk pace.

 

But some of his monologues, like above are pure brilliance.  I think he nails our will to survive, and calls it for what it really is, our fear of that which we don't know in death.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Shakespeare was an actor. His plays are meant to be watched, not read.

 

I agree his poetry is second to none, after all he's got his own sonnets!

 

Overrated? How so? Aside from the lexicographical incestuousness of importance by citation; i.e. it is important because it has been so demonstrably visible over the intervening years (sort of like a idiomeritocracy); it is an influence of the first order to English writers and speakers, like the Bible and Dickens, there are a number of other outstanding merits.

 

First of all, a modern tragedy didn't exist (sure the Greeks did it all the time, but not the English). All plays of the time had "hollywood endings" and usually included a dog and a juggler.

 

It's a pity that the spoken English has moved so far in the last four hundred years, I heard some scholars read some Shakespeare in the original accents, for example, and a lot of the lines rhymed! All that "rambling" is poetic flourishing, yes, but it isn't meaningless.

 

True, a typical play is upwards of four hours long, so it is quite possible it was meant to be tailored for each audience, too. It's pretty impressive that a character-based joke still stands after all this time: Shakespeare knew us better than most writers today do.

 

His (assuming it was one man) main gift was the way to use language. There aren't many thousands of different words in his texts (some are archaic, yes, but that is due to language evolution, not his choice), he gave us a different way to look at language: "uncle me no uncle" (The Tragedy of King Richard the Second, Act II, scene iii) ) is innovative because he is using a noun as a verb, something that hadn't been done up until then.

 

The other great thing about the body of work is that there is so much depth that you can re-read it again and again, and every time you are able to glean more and different meanings from it (and not because of the barrier with turn-of-the-sixteenth-century language, either) due to the exceptionally clever use of metaphor and allegory. (I can give you an alternative contemporary interpretation for a speech that I'll bet you have never heard ... it's a bit rude, though.)

 

The biggest complain is down to the medium (i.e. a language not readily available to the modern audience), not the content.

[Calax]

Neil Gaimen FTW!!!!!!!!!!!!

[atowler]

No prob, Musopticon.

 

Idealistic? Hmmm...maybe. Gets me in a lotta trouble, tho'.

 

Is Metadigital a drama professor? (BTW, amazing mini-dissertation on Shakespeare. Where'd you see it performed with original accents?)

 

Um....Mothman...what would be the difference between your suggestion for K3 and the basic plot of K1? What would be the dramatic new twist, given you've settled things up with your previous NPCs and know who you are? What would be the characters' main challenges? And how would you overcome importing a previously made character into a new game (due to Xbox's limitations)?

[Petay]

Ahhhh, the fresh smell of SPAM in the afternoon.

 

Carry on...

[Calax]

Spam is good, spam attracts the master mod for a quick party kill and revive in another thread...

[Petay]

Spam is good, spam attracts the master mod for a quick party kill and revive in another thread...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hmmm....an idea.

*turns to face all*

 

So, you like.....stuff?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah, that is ralph

[213374U]

So, you like.....stuff?

Hooray for stuff!

[metadigital]

...

Is Metadigital a drama professor? (BTW, amazing mini-dissertation on Shakespeare.  Where'd you see it performed with original accents?)

...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nope. Just well- (some might argue, successfully, over-) educated. :D

[Dark Moth]

Um....Mothman...what would be the difference between your suggestion for K3 and the basic plot of K1? What would be the dramatic new twist, given you've settled things up with your previous NPCs and know who you are? What would be the characters' main challenges? And how would you overcome importing a previously made character into a new game (due to Xbox's limitations)?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You asked, I answered. Who knows what the main character's challenges would be? I just told you the possible outcome of K3. Since you seem unable to come up with anything other than the "heroic sacrifice", I gave an alternative, which just focused on the OUTCOME of the character at the end of K3. Besides, who says Revan even has to be the new PC? I would prefer for him to be an NPC, actually.

[metadigital]

...

Besides, who says Revan even has to be the new PC?  I would prefer for him to be an NPC, actually.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

... who is heroically sacrificed in a selfless act of superior strategising that completes a dilemma successfully allowing the PC to conclude the

[Dark Moth]

...

Besides, who says Revan even has to be the new PC?  I would prefer for him to be an NPC, actually.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

... who is heroically sacrificed in a selfless act of superior strategising that completes a dilemma successfully allowing the PC to conclude the — otherwise tragically irreconcilable — endgame.

 

:D

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

"It's just lazy writing. I could write around it, they should." - Metadigital.

 

[metadigital]

...

Besides, who says Revan even has to be the new PC?  I would prefer for him to be an NPC, actually.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

... who is heroically sacrificed in a selfless act of superior strategising that completes a dilemma successfully allowing the PC to conclude the

[DAWUSS]

And once KOTOR III becomes better than I or II combined, we can talk about KOTOR IV

[Gabrielle]

And once KOTOR III becomes better than I or II combined, we can talk about KOTOR IV

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No. It must end at 3. No more, otherwise it runs the risk of bad movie sequels.

[GhostofAnakin]

And once KOTOR III becomes better than I or II combined, we can talk about KOTOR IV

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No. It must end at 3. No more, otherwise it runs the risk of bad movie sequels.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Agreed. Making a K3 is forgiveable because it mimics the movies and the "trilogy" aspect, as well as could answer a boatload of questions K2 left us with. Making any more KOTOR games after K3 is just beating a dead horse and capitalizing on what was a good idea for the sake of money.

[vaxen83]

I imagine it would have to be. (Not much choice left). If OE had included cutscenes for Kreia throughout the game, and this is would be so important in K2, since Kreia and Exile are the main characters, there would have been a strong theme that would have been developed for the Exile.

 

There was a thread which I posted earlier and if OE had put it into the game, would have been more balanced story.K2 Spoilers and Suggestions.

[vaxen83]

There would have to be greater usage of skills in K3. If K3 is going to have more unexplored areas, and not fights all the time, setting off mines would definitely make a difference in fighting. K2 did not have much of it, in fact almost none of it except those mercs in the Telos Restoration Zone and on Goto's Yacht.

 

There might be more than one way of getting past mines: deactivate them or recover them or through the Destroy Droid force power. Computer use and demolitions tend to go together.

 

Grenades were actually underutilised in K2, except for the mercs. If they had that, the fights would make for a challenging style of combat. Some examples like adhesive grenade and ice grenade virtually lock your characters in place, so that you are forced to stay alive. There was clearly an excessive focus on blasters and lightsabers in the Malachor part.

 

The other thing about the AI is that every enemy always uses the same weapons. If enemies had some sort of formation strategy in attack, it would lend a sense of life into K3.

 

I am not too sure if K3 could be only about sith or not, but it would also help to include other monsters that are huge. The Hsiss on Korriban were actually almost like a hybrid version of an alligator, a dragon, a crocodile and a lizard. They did not look to me as being threatening. By huge, I mean like towering, like the Tank droid in the Old military base that has substantial life to match their size and weapons that inflict status-life effects. The Tank droid barely threw only about 2-3 fire grenades at me, and my PC was not afflicted with Horror. And besides it was more like a slow moving behemoth that was lacking in speed.

[atowler]

The other thing about the AI is that every enemy always uses the same weapons. If enemies had some sort of formation strategy in attack, it would lend a sense of life into K3.

So true! I've been playing Jade Empire and am enjoying not only the variety of enemies (sizes, types, skills, weapons, fighting styles) but also that they seem to grow increasingly smarter/better individually and corporately as you go on. (I'm curious to see if this continues for the whole plot - I don't really know yet.) It's been making the game more interesting.

 

Though, of course, I guess the weapons are pretty much limited to swords, spears or magic - but the fighting styles used with (and w/o) each weapon actually matter and some cancel each other out. It'd be interesting to have that sort of option in K3 since in K2 the Exile was "taught" different Jedi strategies and it didn't seem like I really got to use them for much of anything.

[metadigital]

...

Grenades were actually underutilised in K2, except for the mercs. If they had that, the fights would make for a challenging style of combat. Some examples like adhesive grenade and ice grenade virtually lock your characters in place, so that you are forced to stay alive. There was clearly an excessive focus on blasters and lightsabers in the Malachor part.

...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Grenades are silly in KotOR games. Throwing grenades always results in a direct hit! They don't bounce awkwardly before the target, or overshoot (unless the target runs up after you launch the grenade).

 

It's very silly, considering that there is a percentage chance to fail in hand-to-hand combat!

 

[vaxen83]

Provided your save throws are high enough.

[Calax]

make them eat it like you did the rancor in K1, then you can win..

[vaxen83]

Basically, K1 used grenades in quests. Like the one in Korriban in Ajunta Pall's tomb (not sure about the name), where you had to blow up an obelisk to get to the sarcophagus. The rancor one was also a quest, more like a potential trap. (Almost like undetected mines). If you recall the two special grenades which were found in Naga Sadow's tomb, special cold grenade and special fire grenade. The cold one was the thing that was needed to freeze through the acid pool.

 

K2 basically used explosions, in fact overused them in the permecrete detonator quest for Mandalore. Almost all the explosions in the game, especially the one on Korriban where there were Thorium charges in a crate inside the Sith Academy were put on the sidelines, and yet none of them appeared really useful. Almost like discarded toys.

 

The only one place where I found explosive detonations or charges harnessed quite adequately was in the destruction of the Ravager. That was quite spectacular, especially since the explosion effect of the Ravager was integrated into a CG movie. Add to that the musical score was done, giving it a class of its own.

 

The mass shadow generator on Malachor, unfortunately was not adequately explained and about how either the Exile or Bao-Dur used it to detonate the

planet. The effect where Kreia gets hurled into the chasm below the Trayus core was actually the Vader throwing Palpatine effect into the Death Star's core, but was not enough to trigger Malachor's destruction.

 

So, coming back to K3 after all that, if (whoever gets to do K3) massive explosion effects were integrated into CG movies, that would be something that goes well apart from having lots of dialogue lines in the game, as a grand culmination of having played through the game. In my opinion, this kind of effect would go into the conclusion, and used only once throughout the entire game, otherwise the purpose of doing it is gone.

 

The other thing about explosives is that if they are chained together, where one explodes after another, it can be quite laggy and excessive. Usually, charges placed sparingly in key points in the game would present it much more neatly.

[GhostofAnakin]

So true! I've been playing Jade Empire and am enjoying not only the variety of enemies (sizes, types, skills, weapons, fighting styles) but also that they seem to grow increasingly smarter/better individually and corporately as you go on. (I'm curious to see if this continues for the whole plot - I don't really know yet.)  It's been making the game more interesting. 

 

Though, of course, I guess the weapons are pretty much limited to swords, spears or magic - but the fighting styles used with (and w/o) each weapon actually matter and some cancel each other out. It'd be interesting to have that sort of option in K3 since in K2 the Exile was "taught" different Jedi strategies and it didn't seem like I really got to use them for much of anything.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You're joking right? The enemies in JE are not intelligent in the least. When all you have to do is attack-jump behind-attack-jump behind-attack-jump behind-etc. that's not what I'd call good enemy AI. They don't improve as the game goes on, the enemies just get more powerful. But in terms of actual "intelligence" the enemy AI remains the same and can be beaten the exact same lame way.

[Darque]

That does sound like lame AI