atowler

Which is why I found his comments amusing saying that JE had good enemy AI that actually improved as you went along. I think he was confusing increasingly powerful enemies (ie. more health, better powers, more damage) with actually increasingly intelligent enemies. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I see what you mean about the opponents getting stronger, not "smarter." (I was playing a bit of JE this weekend.) They pretty much have preselected attack modes and go with those throughout the fight. Bummer. Again, at least there is a nice variety. And I enjoyed the opportunity to fight with legs of meat, table parts and wine jugs. You definitely don't get to pick up random objects to fashion makeshift weapons in K1 or K2. (Not that it would be appropriate to the SW genre, anyway.) On the other hand, in JE not all forms of attack work on every opponent. So sometimes your enemies are immune to magic or weapons or support modes. Maybe it is a cakewalk once you figure out which form does/doesn't affect the opponent, but at least you can enjoy having the choice (not only of form, but of style, as soon as you have alternate styles & weapons). I just think it would be interesting to have something similar in K3. I mean, with Force Wave its pretty easy to waltz through the game b/c it works on almost everybody. So it'd be nice to have more enemies that are immune to the Force, forcing you to use your blasters, etc. Or who are immune to your weapons, forcing you to use...well, the Force. Then, having different Jedi fighting forms would be truly worthwhile. And...not that it will happen...but it would be nice if the enemies' AI was intelligent enough to alter their attack styles to negate yours, so you'd have to be alert enough to switch - more like in a real fight. You have to give JE this, though - they have gorgeous scenery/artwork.

So true! I've been playing Jade Empire and am enjoying not only the variety of enemies (sizes, types, skills, weapons, fighting styles) but also that they seem to grow increasingly smarter/better individually and corporately as you go on. (I'm curious to see if this continues for the whole plot - I don't really know yet.) It's been making the game more interesting. Though, of course, I guess the weapons are pretty much limited to swords, spears or magic - but the fighting styles used with (and w/o) each weapon actually matter and some cancel each other out. It'd be interesting to have that sort of option in K3 since in K2 the Exile was "taught" different Jedi strategies and it didn't seem like I really got to use them for much of anything.

No prob, Musopticon. Idealistic? Hmmm...maybe. Gets me in a lotta trouble, tho'. Is Metadigital a drama professor? (BTW, amazing mini-dissertation on Shakespeare. Where'd you see it performed with original accents?) Um....Mothman...what would be the difference between your suggestion for K3 and the basic plot of K1? What would be the dramatic new twist, given you've settled things up with your previous NPCs and know who you are? What would be the characters' main challenges? And how would you overcome importing a previously made character into a new game (due to Xbox's limitations)?

Okay, get a grip, Musopticon. If you can be snarky, I can be....hmmm....Calax, gimme a word here...? Never been called "lofty" before. Hmm...don't think that applies, but, whatever. Anyway, if you are truly offended, Musopticon, then I'm sorry. My point is: just wanting to know if the "bring back Revan" fans have any ideas how to do that in a way that's feasible. Isn't the point of this forum to discuss possibilties and share suggestions? Having diverted into fine literature (nothing wrong with Shakespeare), thought I'd go back to the topic.

Dribble? Explanation please. Or are you just cranky?

"Love is not love, which alters when it alteration finds" " This is for those guys... If (IF, IF, IF) Revan were to return, here's a way I can see it happening: 1. You'd be forced to chose Revan as your main character, but you'd get to select the gender, race (not all heroes/arch villians are white men - get over yourselves, boys ), face and LS/DS leanings. Maybe you'd get to chose your basic attributes. 2. The game would assign most of your force powers (based on LS/DS) and allow you to choose a couple of extra. 3. The game would force-select your "level" - which could be all new since Revan's been in the wilds, ostensibly working on his/her skills, for several years. So he/she should be a full-on Master by now. This way, you can either recreate your original Revan with some degree of consistency, or you can go in a whole new direction and play it many different ways. Regarding romances: 1. Depending on your gender selection either Carth or Bastila (making a fabulous return from the dead) shows up. 2. You can choose through dialogue options how that romance went or if it even happened. Something like....when he/she asks "why did you leave?" You can answer one of three ways: a) "I never meant to hurt you. I loved you too much...." b) "I thought you needed space to get over me. I just didn't feel the same way.." c) "Listen, chump, I didn't like you before and now I like you less..." And your story plot goes on. If you select option b you could potentially begin a romance with Carth/Bastila. 3. For the romantic twist/tension, there could be the option of developing a romance with a new NPC. Just imagine the dialogue for the rivalry! We'd get what we missed in K2. The dialogue alone would be worth playing it different ways. As for the Exile: 1. Keep him/her behind the scenes, acting through your orders and in disguise.Through dialogue you could select the Exile's gender and answer questions from K2 about romance, leanings, what the heck happened. 2. Set it up that whatever DS/LS direction your Revan is headed in, the Exile is beginning to head in the opposite - seen in dialogue options via fuzzy transmissions. 3. If a showdown was absolutely necessary, remember that the Exile is in disguise - or better yet, disfigured beyond recognition due to following your orders! (imagine the guilt for a LS and the satisfaction for a DS Revan) So, children, the moral of this story is: if you are going to quibble over Revan's untimely and heoric death, at least make the case for sparing Revan's life feasible.

Hey everyone, thanks for responding to my novel...er, post... I understand wanting to wrap up the Exile story and everyone's attachment to Revan, but we don't actually need to have either of them as a PC/NPC. It wouldn't even require selecting their alignments - an external threat could negate the importance of the prior characters alignment(s) because the common goal is to eliminate the threat. The story of what happens to Exile and Revan could unfold in dialogue revealed as part of your character(s) adventures in a way that makes them heroic (for good or evil).... Um....I basically agree with everything Metadigital said. Wus, your story ideas are great, but I don't think they're practicable on a game formatted for Xbox use. Mothman, get over Revan. I had to, too. Took a good cry and several weeks on prozac. (jk) As for killing off the mentor - I wasn't thinking the gamer's main character would necessarily be the killer. If you have an emotional connection to someone and they die in a manner where you think you might've been able to save them and didn't (a LS option) or you purposefully chose not to save them (a DS option) - well, that leaves room for all kinds of dramatic repurcussions for both the PC and all the NPCs. That's what I think should happen. Because wasn't the inability to control events happening to the people they cared about most at the heart of the DS temptations that faced Anakin and Luke? Which would mean the Mentor-PC relationship would need to be well-written and planned-out, as you pointed out, Meta. So, here's to hoping for decent writing. If (big "if" I suspect) K3 gets made and Obsidian makes it, the death scene written for Atton alone proves they have great writers and could probably pull that part off. If they have the time to do the job right...(or does that now go without saying?) Anyway, I guess what I want is a fulfillment of the potential promised for K2.

So, I've been reading through the thread....some fascinating ideas and a couple bizarre mini-flamewars. I like the SIMs, but wouldn't want that for KOTOR. Totally different game. KOTOR's not a shooter or a SIM (all that discussion about chopping off limbs - just a little creepy, guys). meta's right - KOTOR's an RPG/Strategy adventure and should be kept that way. Getting back to K3 speculation/ideas...my vote for K3 would be: 1. I agree with several posters about having Revan make a life-ending sacrifice that has consequences for the PC (and galaxy) in K3. It's more dramatically sound and resolves the technical problems on how to incorporate Revan in K3. This is a real emotional sacrifice for me because I got really attached to my Revan and was pretting ticked off with K2 sending her off to the void. But I'd be willing to give her up for a storyline with integrity. And if you are someone who invested in the Carth-Revan romance, bring him back in K3 and let him mourn a bit. It'd be cathartic for the players who felt shafted. (Since Bastila bit the big one, I guess the Bastila-Revan fans will remain shafted.) 2. Sadly, I think the Exile is pretty irrelevant, so shouldn't show up at all in K3 (if there is one). Several other posters mentioned K2's story felt like it really was all about Revan. I agree. Ultimately, Exile's story was just exposition to explain the "True Sith"/Greater Threat backstory and prep for the final installment of K3. Intentionally done or not by Obsidian/LA. Bummer. 3. Keep Mandalore, HK-47 and the other droid as NPCs. They're flexible enough and there's no reference to them dying in K1 or K2, so no plot problems. And lots more room for new NPCs. 4. Someone mentioned having "average jedi (AJ)" being run-of-the-mill until forced into greatness by the exigencies of the situation. Then AJ determines the outcome of Revan's sacrifice/the galaxy. I think that's a great idea! That allows the creators and players LOTS more manipulation of the story. And you can have your Rakata jedi if you want, pick your chartreuse saber colors, whatever floats your boat. 5. Ditch Tatoonie, Datoonie, etc. Been there, done that. Time to move on... beyond the outer rim, please. Let's get into the unknown and try something a little different. Do we really need actual planets for every stop anyway? Anybody remember Cloud City from ESB? The asteroid from K2 was a more novel alternative to a planet, even if was a little boring to play. Creativity, where art thou? 6. Finish the all the story threads!!!!!!!!!! (Frickin' K2 cuts, grumble, grumble...) 7a. K2 provided lots of characters with great angst and potential emotional/relational complications and K1 really allowed the PC to get fully interactional with everyone - after all, isn't that how we all fell in love with HK-47? Include BOTH elements!! It could figure in the mentor and DS/LS choice issues. Conflicted character(s) and the tragic/dramatic death of the PC's mentor about 1/2 through the game could provide a great defining emotional and pivotal plot moment for not only the PC but for some of the NPCs as well (impacting the NPCs DS/LS choices & PC influence, for instance). So, you could potentially have an outside event throw a real curveball at your interaction with NPCs, thus, spurring you on (hopefully) to renewed fervor in whatever influence pursuit with them you were making. Much more interesting. 7b. Killing off the mentor around 1/2 way into the game also allows 1/2 the game for PC to level up with a mentor, graduate to whaever class, and then be the point that could provide the reckoning for future DS/LS directional choices. Doesn't matter if it's a Kreia-like annoying mentor, Mical-like sappy mentor, or Jolee Bindo "the grey jedi" grump - any would provide an emotional "oomph." And, it is in keeping with SW story ideology. I think asking for your choice of mentors might be too much storywriting, but maybe if you could choose just between two and the guy/gal gets killed off halfway, thus, ending that - maybe that'd be technically feasible? 8. Absolutely have to have romance options for those who want them! And, yeah, I'd wouldn't mind if they didn't fade to black for at least one worthwhile kiss. 9. Re "true Sith": You know, that's really more a philosophy. If you dig into what Kreia was saying and someone else tried to explain several months back, the issue is socio-political. I'm not a war strategist, but my observation is if you want to bring down a big country/empire, you wait until it starts to crrupt from within and then manipulate and exploit the factions that develop, corrupting them further until there is no organized infrastructure (wasn't this GOTO's fear and the allusions by Kreia & Disciple?) to hold it together. So, the "true sith" don't have to be actual Sith-the-race OR Sith-the-DS-Jedi. They could be anyone who desires chaos, anarchy and annihilation like Nihilius, just devouring all life. Or, they could just be into domination/subjugation of other cultures like the Rakata were. So, that'd give the writers more freedom to make the external enemy non-force OR force-sensitive. (I'd vote for some force use, though) And...this is WAY too long. :"> One last thought: I'd vote for LESS item construction options. I got a headache trying to figure out what to do with all that inventory at the various lab/bio/whatever work stations. Kudos to anyone who bothered to read all the way through this. Yur a ! Sorry so long.

Thanks, Jediphile, for the links! :cool: Got 'em bookmarked and am gonna check on how to modify my Xbox, just in case... Maybe I'll purchase the PC version just for the mods. Hmmm. Well, happy playing! (for the first half of the game anyway)

I'm a newbie to this whole forum thing - so forgive my ignorance... I spent pretty much the whole day searching the KOTOR 2 forums and following the "spoiler" threads from February (yeah, yeah, I know it is pathetic :"> ) trying to figure out the "issues" with the game storyline/ending. 'Course, I found that discussion led to the creation of the current mod effort and the chat apparently shifted over to this regular chat section. So here's my thought/question... First of all, thanks so much to all the people that cobbled together the cut text and audio files back in March!!! They were magnificent! I was so freaking frustrated by KOTOR 2's slapdash last half and ending I was ready to feed the game to a rapid doberman (and the person I borrowed the game from would NOT have been happy with me). I have an Xbox and no access to the hidden/cut files, so you've saved the game (and my friendship) from a ghastly, though possibly deserved, shredding... Second, a question: Will this mod creation/recreation be usable for for us Xbox players? I wasn't planning on buying KOTOR 2 for my PC unless someone handed it to me for less than $10 - LA doesn't deserve more than that given my dissatisfaction (aka, irritation-induced migraine). Please, please say there'll be a way for me to access it on Xbox!! If not, will it be possible to access it on PC without the entire game? Just to see/hear something statisfying and make the 40+ hours I spent worthwhile? Thirdly, as I don't intend to spend all tomorrow catching up on the regular chat between March and now (I'm not THAT patheticly bored), is there any relevent news on the potential KOTOR 3? I've heard interesting rumors at Gamespot....or should I be checking Bioware's forums? Finally, some of the forum chat has been absolutely hilarious - thanks for lightening up my day! BTW, lovin' some of your usernames and mugs.