Kotor 3: Ideas and Suggestions

[DeathScepter]

TO Bastila: you are not the only one

[Darth Abomination]

I agree

[Tel Aviv]

I'm indifferent. What best serves the sequels plot is what matters most. If that means we never again see the exile or Revan then so be it.

[jodo kast 5]

I agree

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

agreed.

[Gabrielle]

Revan rules.

[Darth Flatus]

Revan rules all the fanboys hearts - i personally hope he dies.. horribly.. in an accident involving mice, a pipe and some cheese.

[Laozi]

In the DS ending Kreia says that she and Exile are both "True Sith", so I'm even more confused...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

 

And you should be. You see what is going to happen is at the start of Kotor 3 the true sith invade and start wrecking up the joint....bigtime. Then just about as they are about to totally seize power the True True Sith come in and fight the True Sith. Only after enlisting the help of many hippos and ninjas are the true sith able to defeat them. But then Gargamiel the leader of the True Sith gets an urgent call, his wife, telling him that the calls are coming from inside the house and to "get out" right away. We never learn what happened to him. Meanwhile a satellite collides with God kiling him/her, on Kashsykk a trees fall, and on Alderaan a man puts on a dress. Then Revan, Mark Twain, The Exile, and Skeletor from He-Man come out of light speed and defeat the British at the Battle of New Orleans.

[6 Foot Invisible Rabbit]

You know, I can see LA making Obsidian pull that sort of crap in KotOR 3.

[ncr]

LA is definitely at fault for approving the "True Sith" thing. Do you think they came up with the idea though?

[6 Foot Invisible Rabbit]

Does it bloody matter who the hell came up with the idea? Only thing that matters is the bottomline, what is in the final product and the support in its post release. Both Obsidian and LA will be responsible just like they are with KotOR 2.

[Plano Skywalker]

LA is definitely at fault for approving the "True Sith" thing.  Do you think they came up with the idea though?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Think about it:

 

* Malak the Betrayer (and Revan the amnesiac)

* Wound in the Force

* True Sith

 

What do these three things have in common? They allow for the same cookie cutter story to work whether you are Lucifer or Sir Galahad. DSers are reduced to playing the reluctant ANTI-HERO instead of having an actual Dark Side path.

 

It appears KOTOR 3 is going down that all too familiar path. Hopefully, though, at some point, the LS and DS paths will be much different (yes, even if that requires two seperate cds).

[ncr]

You know, I can see LA making Obsidian pull that sort of crap in KotOR 3.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You're placing the blame on LA here. Then later you say they're both to blame. Make up your mind you silly rabbit.

[GhostofAnakin]

I kind of wish Lucasarts would allow for a simple expansion pack to be released to end the whole "cliffhanger" thing and wrap up the Revan/Exile thing.

 

Then KOTOR3 would be free to do whatever the developer wanted, without having their hands tied by having to finish off the KOTOR2 storyline.

[Calax]

Thank you JC we have a savior now you can leave... truly i think they could solve most of their problems with a simple expansion to tie up some loose ends (no offence RP) but it would also allow them to add some content, like a small adventure involving the other crew trying to figure out what to do to revive the Order.

 

WHO SAY"S I LIKE COOKIE CUTTERS?

[Grant Dempsey]

In the DS ending Kreia says that she and Exile are both "True Sith", so I'm even more confused...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In the Dark Side ending, Kreia said, "You are not a Sith...not truly, and it is for that that I love you." (In the Light Side ending, Kreia said, "You are not a Jedi...not truly, and it is for that that I love you," too, as I recall.)

[Tel Aviv]

Revan better be in Kotor III

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thats all I ever hear from you these days. Leave Revan be, he's overrated.

[Snipergoat UK]

OK. I havent read the whole thread, so sorry if this has been mentioned.

 

PLEASE. Do not have the random item generator. I went through the game 2 times without finding ANY Jedi Padawan or Master robes !!!!! AArgghhh. All I had was some red robes ! I dont want red or greenrobes. just plain old brown ones.

[Echo_Drive]

I think that we should be able to fight against Revan and the Exile in KOTOR III. For example, if your PC is lightside fight against Revan and if your PC is darkside fight against the Exile. And these fights should be EPIC! Not over in 10 seconds...I hate those kinda of fights in KOTOR I/II when ever you fight against Jedi or Sith.

[Darth Sprawl]

OK. I havent read the whole thread, so sorry if this has been mentioned.

 

PLEASE. Do not have the random item generator. I went through the game 2 times without finding ANY Jedi Padawan or Master robes !!!!! AArgghhh. All  I had was some red robes ! I dont want red or greenrobes. just plain old brown ones.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree, because no matter how much you tweak the system...you will always have a chance of that happening. When it does happen, it totally ruins gameplay for that entire playthrough/save.

 

Why continue to randomize it when you should be able earn it by finding secret/hidden areas, taking on additional side quests, find/work/intimidating specific shop owners, etc.

 

I would like to see the bench creation system take the next step in which you could make even more specialized weapons, armors, lightsabers, etc. instead of further development of the random item generator.

[metadigital]

LA is definitely at fault for approving the "True Sith" thing.  Do you think they came up with the idea though?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Think about it:

 

* Malak the Betrayer (and Revan the amnesiac)

* Wound in the Force

* True Sith

 

What do these three things have in common? They allow for the same cookie cutter story to work whether you are Lucifer or Sir Galahad. DSers are reduced to playing the reluctant ANTI-HERO instead of having an actual Dark Side path.

 

It appears KOTOR 3 is going down that all too familiar path. Hopefully, though, at some point, the LS and DS paths will be much different (yes, even if that requires two seperate cds).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I must agree here; the trend in modern game production is towards greater efficiency in the process; much like the Japanese car manufacturers revolutionized the car industry in the latter half of the twentieth century with their kaizen philosophy and focus on improving the production process rather than the product, we now have games producers that can produce a game with relatively little investment in IP.

 

For example, let me quote a review for Psychonauts, from this month's UK PC Gamer magazine, issue 150, July 2005, pp100-1.

... Double Fine, the studio responsible, is home to a hero of the '90s: Tim Shafer. A script writer on the early Monkey Island games, her went on to create what must be recognised as the finest adventure games to have existed: Day of the Tentacle and Grim Fandango. Back then Shafer did something special to a fine format. He looked at adventure games and he decided to make a new rule: Everything has to be Game. If an object was present in a scene, then there must be a unique gag for looking at it, picking it up, using it, even talking to it. "I'm sorry, I can't do that" was not an acceptable response. If the player could think of it, it was to be met with a written reply. Every scene was pored over, explored and experimented with, giving rise to the magical and delicious impression that someone thought of you when they made this. ...

... Games only occasionally have the kind of moments that follow. The first came when exploring the cabin area where the children sleep. A few of the vast cast of fellow psi-campers were hanging around, having conversations. ... But one character stood on his own, his head pressed to the building. I 'used' him to talk, and he explained he was waiting to watch the girls get changed through a hole in the wall. ... I went to 'use' him again, but accidentally hit the wrong button, and smacked him with Raz's whopping great psi-punch. But I didn't lose a life, receive a warning message, or watch him ignore my violence. Instead, his head was pushed through the tiny hole, leaving his tubby body and little legs waggling off the ground. I dashed inside, and there was his head, stuck through, dazed and confused. And there, in that moment, there's a rush. The realisation that something far more involved is happening here. And it wasn't a fluke. Everything is game. Puch someone, jump on someone, and there's a unique reply -- appropriate to their character, relevant to your action. ...

 

This sort of detail is sadly lacking in -- seemingly all -- modern games. In the rush to launch yet another shallow saccharine-rush rip-off, real gaming is being left behind. Seemingly, there is no HBO game producer and the David Attenboroughs of the games industry are dinosaurs marked for termination ...

 

I just bought Grim Fandango, and I shall spend the next few days playing it. Not because the graphics are superb, but because the narrative is compelling.

 

There were comments made in this and earlier threads about the importance of a new engine for any sequel. I would point out to you that that direction leads us further into the doldrums: the last Star Trek: Elite Force game was an improved graphics engine with a plot that was a direct copy of the previous game! It even had the same training mission! (The only difference, apart from the improved polygon count, was Patrick Stewart doing the voice over.)

 

Bring back the story! Forget the special effects, they're nice to have, not deal-breakers.

 

PS The fact that LA produced the Monkey Island series, Day of the Tentacle and Grim Fandango is excruciatingly ironic; they have "evolved" into a crap "fast-food" game producer from a "fair-trade organic wholefood home cooking" one.

[Jediphile]

LA is definitely at fault for approving the "True Sith" thing.  Do you think they came up with the idea though?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Oh, come on. The "true" Sith is just a convenient term for the descendents of the Sith Empire that attacked the Republic under the command of Naga Sadow a little over 1000 years before the time of Ulic, Exar Kun and Revan. The whole thing is described in the "Golden Age of the Sith Empire" and "Fall of the Sith Empire" comic book series, if anyone is interested.

 

We haven't heard anything about those Sith since Naga Sadow's invasion failed, but we know they're still out there, so they're a good and untapped resource for enemies in the KotOR games. They were also rather arrogant and racist about their racial purity, which is probably what "true" Sith is supposed to me - to those Sith both Malak, Sion, Kreia and DS Revan (and DS Exile for that matter) would all be "usurper" or "pretender" Sith, since they're not what they consider to be pure Sith blood. There is even some truth to that, since the term Sith comes from a humanoid race that the dark jedi expelled from the Republic enslaved and then interbreeded with. Still, by the time of KotOR, all fallen jedi are generally known as "Sith" no matter what their background - the term 'dark Jedi' doesn't seem to be used much anymore.

 

Hmm, makes me wonder if the Jedi council (Vandar, Vrook, etc.) would consider Jolee to be a 'dark jedi' since he has clearly turned from what Palpatine would call the 'dogmatic, narrow view of the jedi'...

[ncr]

I don't want this to turn into Starship Troopers.

[Jediphile]

This sort of detail is sdly lacking in seemingly all modern games. In the rush to launch yet another shallow sacharrine-rush rip-off, real gaming is being left behind. seemingly there is no HBO game producer, the David Attenboroughs of the games industry are dinosaurs marked for termination ...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I know what you mean, but don't forget a couple of things:

 

- Consumers (that's you and me) expect much more from games now, and we've usually seen it all before - the days when we see something truly original in games are over because it's all been done.

 

- All narrative is also spoken narrative - whatever is written must also be spoken, which requires every single word to be done by voice actors, and that's not exactly cheap.

 

- Computer games are an industry. Gone are the golden age of gaming, when each and every game was the love child of a specific programmer - now there are definite demands on what graphics, sounds, etc. that a game MUST have to be accepted. A game MAY NOT sell badly these days, since they demand too much attention - companies go backrupt, people lose their jobs and mouths aren't being fed when games don't sell now. Games really are that expensive to make now - what one man could do in the the gold age of the 80s now requires a team of 25+ people working full time for a year or more. That's a huge investment!

 

- This also means that the story must fit with the work schedule. I'd like to see a KotOR3 with diverse light and dark side paths throughout, but it's not going to happen - it would be far to costly to produce, since it would mean that the company has to basically write two games and have most people play only one. Therefore it will be "one size fits all". Not because the company doesn't want to do it, but because it is only thing that is possible.

[metadigital]

This sort of detail is sdly lacking in seemingly all modern games. In the rush to launch yet another shallow saccharine-rush rip-off, real gaming is being left behind. seemingly there is no HBO game producer, the David Attenboroughs of the games industry are dinosaurs marked for termination ...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I know what you mean, but don't forget a couple of things:

 

- Consumers (that's you and me) expect much more from games now, and we've usually seen it all before - the days when we see something truly original in games are over because it's all been done.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

We expect more, yes, but we get less. "... It's all been done."? Garbage! We are getting slop that has been done so much that it is chich

[Calax]

Oh, come on. The "true" Sith is just a convenient term for the descendents of the Sith Empire that attacked the Republic under the command of Naga Sadow a little over 1000 years before the time of Ulic, Exar Kun and Revan. The whole thing is described in the "Golden Age of the Sith Empire" and "Fall of the Sith Empire" comic book series, if anyone is interested.

 

We haven't heard anything about those Sith since Naga Sadow's invasion failed, but we know they're still out there, so they're a good and untapped resource for enemies in the KotOR games. They were also rather arrogant and racist about their racial purity, which is probably what "true" Sith is supposed to me - to those Sith both Malak, Sion, Kreia and DS Revan (and DS Exile for that matter) would all be "usurper" or "pretender" Sith, since they're not what they consider to be pure Sith blood. There  is even some truth to that, since the term Sith comes from a humanoid race that the dark jedi expelled from the Republic enslaved and then interbreeded with. Still, by the time of KotOR, all fallen jedi are generally known as "Sith" no matter what their background - the term 'dark Jedi' doesn't seem to be used much anymore.

 

Hmm, makes me wonder if the Jedi council (Vandar, Vrook, etc.) would consider Jolee to be a 'dark jedi' since he has clearly turned from what Palpatine would call the 'dogmatic, narrow view of the jedi'...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Lessee We have heard about the old sith because their great "empire" contained only korribon and that was pretty much depopulated. Naga Shadow at the end of the sith empire ran away to Yavin IV where he performed genetic experiments on his little helpers and actually made them into the Massasi we see in Dark Lords of the Sith and the Sith war. I would think that the Council would treat Jolee as an possible hostile, the jedi refer to those who try to take the galaxy as sith because that's what sith always did....