The Jedi and the love issue

[Hildegard]

When it comes to Jedi and their policy towards love it always irritaded me, I can understand the Dark Jedi being all destructive and similar.....I think that in SW universe, and espacially between the force sensitive individuals, love has been unfairly neglected, by the Jedi - with the whole speach that it leads to the dark side and crap like that, and the Dark Jedi - who obviously think that love is for pathetic light siders....kind of ironic.....

 

I think that the main problem is that Jedi keep on and on mixing emotion-passion and love, sure those things are closely connected, but you can't just throw them in the same basket, and that's excatly what the Jedi did, which is a clear sign of a lack of wisdom and their inability to solve the ever-complicated issue of love, so they took the easy path and equalized passion-emotions and love.

 

The best explanation about love and the Jedi was that made by Jolee Bindo, who is by me more wiser then the whole Jedi council in KOTOR, he said:

 

"The Jedi, with their damnable sense of over-caution, would tell you love is something to avoid, thankfully anyone who's ever been partially alive knows that's not true.

Love doesn't lead to the Dark Side. Passion can lead to rage and fear, and can be controlled....But passion is NOT the same thing as love.

I just think that the greatest things in life shouldn't be avoided because they come with a few complications.

How you deal with the bad part of love is what determines your character, what determines the Dark Side's hold over you.

Controlling your passions while being in love....that's what they should teach you to beware. But love, itself, will SAVE you.....not condemn you."

 

 

 

 

 

Your thoughts...........

[Cathari]

A person's love for another can be used to twist people to the dark side (hate, anger, fear).

 

If a Jedi love's another, then if that person is captured then that person can be used to manipulate strong feelings. Kill/torture the loved one over a long period of time, and the Jedi will run the whole gamut of emotions in a very strong sense, ultimately becoming dark and broody, and more susceptable to being turned.

 

It's not that "love" in and of itself is bad, its the consequences of that love for another to be turned and used against you to create much darker feelings.

 

The movies explore this in detail:

 

Luke's love for Leia almost had him kill Vader when Vader found out about Leia being Luke's sister and would "train her".

 

Anakin's love for his mother, instilled rage and revenge when she was killedm ultimately contributing towards the dark side, and further compounded with his love for Padme, and his fear that he would lose her, thereby allowing himself to be manipulated to the dark side by Palpatine.

 

Just some examples of why "love" is forbidden by the Jedi. While the person alone who "loves" no other will be extremely difficult to leverage an emotion thereby allowing manipulation, as soon as there is something of critical importance to them, such as someone they strongly love, this leaves the door wide open to be used as a tool to manipulate someone to feelings of fear, anguish, despair, rage and revenge.

[Cloris]

I agree -- it does seem rather simplistic and narrow-minded to forbid love rather than teach warriness of the things that can come with it. For heaven's sake, they're bloody Jedi Masters -- they know it is going to happen anyway. I thought that Jolee was the smartest about it, that was pretty obvious. In II, with a male Exile, I think you get to say something about "pulling a Bindo" in reference to love...

 

Cloris

[Kalfear]

LOL, Im no expert on jedi but I always ignore that principle your speaking about and fool around trying to see if there is a love interest in the games.

 

I agree the love policy is stupid, but hey its star wars! I mean they say love is bad then write in love interests for most of the main characters anyways! LOL

 

Just take it with a grain of salt

 

Kinda offtopic: Anyone else think GL was going through a nasty break up when he wrote that stuff about love leading to the dark side! LOL

[Hildegard]

A person's love for another can be used to twist people to the dark side (hate, anger, fear).

 

If a Jedi love's another, then if that person is captured then that person can be used to manipulate strong feelings.  Kill/torture the loved one over a long period of time, and the Jedi will run the whole gamut of emotions in a very strong sense, ultimately becoming dark and broody, and more susceptable to being turned.

 

It's not that "love" in and of itself is bad, its the consequences of that love for another to be turned and used against you to create much darker feelings.

 

The movies explore this in detail:

 

Luke's love for Leia almost had him kill Vader when Vader found out about Leia being Luke's sister and would "train her".

 

Anakin's love for his mother, instilled rage and revenge when she was killedm ultimately contributing towards the dark side, and further compounded with his love for Padme, and his fear that he would lose her, thereby allowing himself to be manipulated to the dark side by Palpatine.

 

Just some examples of why "love" is forbidden by the Jedi.  While the person alone who "loves" no other will be extremely difficult to leverage an emotion thereby allowing manipulation, as soon as there is something of critical importance to them, such as someone they strongly love, this leaves the door wide open to be used as a tool to manipulate someone to feelings of fear, anguish, despair, rage and revenge.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yes, stuff you say is true, but I think it's not a reason to just ignore it and make it forbidden. Love has some bad sides and sometimes tough consequences, but as Jolee said: How you deal with the bad part of love is what determines your character, what determines the Dark Side's hold over you. And if one is too "weak" and can't control his passion while in love.......then he would suffer the consequences of his/her actions......It just proves that love isn't for everyone, it goes for the Jedi and for all non-Jedi.

[Darth Flatus]

I always thought the "no love" thing was part of a jedi having no attachments - physical or emotional.

 

I assume the theory is that if they dwell on the past they cannot focus on what they are doing, if they are distracted by emotional attachments they cannot focus on what is at hand. A jedi is taught form chilhood to revere and respect life as a whole and form no emotional attachment to any one being/person. ( this is why i think its odd that the the exile would respond to romantic advances in a conventional manner, with revan it is ok since his memory was wiped)

e.g.Anakin skywalker's love for his wife and mother ultimately led him to the dark side.

 

Conversely it could be said that the jedi failed anakin - beacuse they were so emotionally reserved they were unable to help anakin and guide him properly. Ultimately it is luke's love for his father that saves him.

 

I ses the anakin example to show the good and bad side to the jedi's no love policy.

[Cloris]

Maybe I'm just cracked, but when I think about it, sometimes I wonder if Force Bonds are ways to make Jedi feel again.

 

That's not quite it, let me try again: if the Force is all about balance, then wouldn't no emotional attachment be just as wrong as too much emotional attachment?

 

I don't know about attributing Anakin's fall to love, more to his obssesive inability to let go of the people that he loves -- his unwillingness to acknowledge that he can't control everything. Rather than face the fact that not everything can be controlled, he reaches out for more power, for more control. It isn't love, it's what he does about his love that makes all the difference.

 

Flatus, you've got some good points. I tell you though, if I were exiled from an order that forbid love, the first thing I would do is go have a good fling! Not out of spite or rebellion, but out of relief of no longer being subject to such a rule. I mean, if you are "a Jedi no longer," then why fight it?

 

Cloris

[metadigital]

It is an indefensible postion.

 

First let me say I imagine it is modelled off a monastery or nunnery. Now let me explain why it is untenable.

 

The only excuse is if you are protecting the innocent, who would naturally be targeted by evil forces: they are the Jedi weak spot. (Apparently Hoover used to keep files on people in the US so that he would know how to control anyone he needed to for this very reason.) We will call this the Mary Jane scenario. (No prizes for guessing she's up for the job of human shield in the next film. I would bet she bite the bullet, too, as they have only signed on for the three set deal.)

 

I guess the Council don't want rogue Jedi going "off mission" and starting a vendetta against random bad guys who kidnap or hurt their nearest & dearest.

 

Other than that, it is not only ignorant to assume that Jedi should not love, it is downright retarded, literally. It is retarding their spiritual growth.

 

As has been stated above, the whole point is dealing with that which you cannot control. Love is bigger than the lover: you care for your betrothed: their interests are primary and yours / the order's are secondary.

 

That's a big juggling act, to be sure. A lot of people will drop a ball every now and then. But trying to ignore it and prohibit it altogether is foolish.

[Cathari]

Oh, I agree that it is simplistic and foolish to attempt to control it.

 

I was just explaining the motivations behind the reasons for "prohibiting" it.

 

Seems stupid to prohibit something which cannot be controlled though.

 

Then again, there is the aspect when people say "so a few people go rogue". The whole SW galaxy saga is filled with tales about the amount of damage that can be done when just a single Jedi goes rogue.

 

If anything, given the history of such happening in the galaxy, one wonders why force sensitives aren't actively hunted and killed on the spot just because of the potential threat that they represent. Such would be justifiable in much the same ways that forbidding love is justifiable.

 

Definite hypocrisy.

 

Meh - I see many parallels between the "X-Men", and "Star Wars".

[KOTORFanactic]

To the topic starter, I present to you what happens in Episode 3 with Anakin.

[Nartwak]

Other than that, it is not only ignorant to assume that Jedi should not love, it is downright retarded, literally. It is retarding their spiritual growth.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So you would say Buddhists are spiritually retarded then?

[Hildegard]

To the topic starter, I present to you what happens in Episode 3 with Anakin.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Ooooooh my God......I never saw that one coming..... :ph34r:

[Heckur]

To forbid Jedi to love is also a path of self-destruction: most of them will have no children. So all those Force sensitives die out.

 

Besides that, when forbidding Jedies to love, you should also forbid other powerfull people to love for the same reasons: that they may abuse their power for revenge or accomplishing their personal goals when their loved-ones are in danger.

 

There are plenty of examples in the real world of this: e.g. take the Chinese general who opened a gate in the Chinese Wall, thereby causing the fall of the whole Chinese empire, just to be near his loved one. But do we forbid all those generals, kings, queens, corporate managers, et cetera to love? Even the president of the USA, one of the most powerfull men in the world, is married!

[Padmi Skydrunkard]

Love whether intimate or sisterely(frienship) can be used to turn Bastila back to LS in the original game.

 

I think the frustration of not being 'allowed' to love is part of what drives a lot of jedi to the DS, especially the younger ones(adolescents).

 

Plus if they can't love how do the jedi deal with their sexual frustrations? True the Force is strong, I still think they probably have to rely on long runs and cold showers at least some of the time.

[Cathari]

Plus if they can't love how do the jedi deal with their sexual frustrations? True the Force is strong, I still think they probably have to rely on long runs and cold showers at least some of the time.  

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Oh that's easy. A little known (outside of of the Jedi Order) force power taught at adolescence: "Force Masturbation". "

[Darth Flatus]

I dont believe "love" come naturally to people - the jedi are brought up in an environment wher they dont develeop this emotion in a way we understand, they may be regarded as emotionally stunted but the upshot is that they are better than non jedi at controlling any feelings they do have.

[metadigital]

Other than that, it is not only ignorant to assume that Jedi should not love, it is downright retarded, literally. It is retarding their spiritual growth.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So you would say Buddhists are spiritually retarded then?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

MU

[Panther]

well * love * is what makes The Handmaiden to become a Jedi.. she is clearly in love with the exile and will do * anything * to be with him.. and the exile manipulates The Handmaiden feelings to get and extra Jedi in he

[Hildegard]

The exile seems to be more interested in Mira or Visas.. but that two woman

[Conspiracy Theorist]

I think they should be allowed to love. However, do you really want a freshly dumped horomonal 18 year old running around w/ a lightsaber?... :D

[Darth Abomination]

first of all we had this same conversation a long long time ago bu tI will give my answer again regardless

 

 

Lets take for instance Vader and Luke, Vader was the biggest baddest dude ever. However, because his son loved him unconditionally Vader got basically thrown back to the light. I guess Luke's dedication to the light side also inspired Vader's return to the light side.

 

Kyle Katarn is Jedi Outcast, after he thinks Jan has been killed by Dessan and Tavion he goes on a rampage and luke comments on how he is begginning to fall to the dark side. However, once Kyle discovers the woman he loves is still kicking he comes right down and loses any chance of falling to the darkside.

 

Then we look at Anakin, when his mom died he began to fall to the darkside.

 

So my theory is love lost can lead to the darkside but one showing love or being inlove can infact protect you from the darkside.

[Draken]

Hahah, Conspiracy Theorist, I love your avatar. RedvsBlue rocks!

[anakins revenge]

youd think if theres no love thered be alot of sticky bedsheets in the teen dorms.

 

Anyway, another reason jedi arent supposed to love is because they arent supposed to have attachments, so if they die, or are going to die, think clearly- this has actually been proven ppl. But that works both ways, ppl who are in a situation, aka anakin wants to stop padme from dying, so anakin "dies" technically in order to save the one he loves, and the new persona comes out. Then later on, vaders persona is broken by anakin because he can feel attachments again-love 4 luke and leia, and he sacrifices himself for them.

[SteveThaiBinh]

I would imagine as many Jedi have been turned to the Dark Side by the tortured guilt of suppressed feelings of love as by the realisation of the passions associated with love.

[Padmi Skydrunkard]

Plus if they can't love how do the jedi deal with their sexual frustrations? True the Force is strong, I still think they probably have to rely on long runs and cold showers at least some of the time.  

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Oh that's easy. A little known (outside of of the Jedi Order) force power taught at adolescence: "Force Masturbation". "

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>