Sexist KOTOR 2

[Aurora]

Oh good. Absurd trolling, feminists = Nazis, "true equality is whoring yourself out" and "not wanting characters with exaggerated bodies means you want fat ugly characters." Looks like this topic has covered everything on the subject of gender in games, time to close it, please.

[GhostofAnakin]

Yeah but Kreia was like the mother-in-law from hell.

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Your point?

 

You made it sound like there was no female character in KOTOR2 that played a significant role, such as Bastila did in KOTOR1. I gave you a perfect example and you shrug it off because it doesn't help your weak argument.

[Blarghagh]

feminists = Nazis,

 

Feminazis?

 

I say Sion should have been female.

[Odinson]

I laughed

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I cried.

[Aurora]

feminists = Nazis,

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Feminazis?

 

I say Sion should have been female.

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Yes, because wanting equality is pretty much the same as hating people because of their race alone or maybe their sexual orientation too, and wanting to murder billions of people because of their race or sexual orientation or ethnicity, and your own overwhelming hatred and oh, *actually* murdering millions of people because of their race or sexual orientation or ethnicity or fun-club membership.

 

But then there's no true equality and asking for it just makes guys feel bad, so yeah, I can see how that's pretty much the same thing, yo.

 

Or, like, anyone who uses the word Nazi to describe non-Nazis is like, a Nazi and stuff, yo.

[Invoker]

What happened to just playing the game and enjoying it?

[LadyViola_21]

Wow. That was just a waste of internet space.

 

Sexist? I don't think so. Personally I loved KOTOR II, admitedly all the females happen to be large chested, but real women tend to be large chested too, so why are we complaining again?

 

Agreed Visas is subservient, but she is just as subservient to the female PC as to the male PC (I think, I've only played the female PC, and she's increadibly subservient to her.)

 

Personally I found all the female characters strong, capable women far better than many of the women seen in the media today. But then I suppose if we're judging women by bust size, as a 40D then I must be a sexist stereotype, never mind everything else about me that makes me who I am.

 

To losely quote my female PC

 

"No harder than enduring your false sympathy while you're staring at my chest."

 

to all those who created the female characters in KOTOR II, as a real woman I think you guys did a great job. Keep up the good work!

[Blue Green]

feminists = Nazis,

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Feminazis?

 

I say Sion should have been female.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yes, because wanting equality is pretty much the same as hating people because of their race alone or maybe their sexual orientation too, and wanting to murder billions of people because of their race or sexual orientation or ethnicity, and your own overwhelming hatred and oh, *actually* murdering millions of people because of their race or sexual orientation or ethnicity or fun-club membership.

 

But then there's no true equality and asking for it just makes guys feel bad, so yeah, I can see how that's pretty much the same thing, yo.

 

Or, like, anyone who uses the word Nazi to describe non-Nazis is like, a Nazi and stuff, yo.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

*applauds*

 

Can we please drop the whole "feminazi" term and just use "idiot" for people who clearly are twisting feminism into something it shouldn't be? (e.g. attacking men)

 

Also - love the Delirium avatar, Aurora!

 

BG.

[Blarghagh]

I was using a term from Maddox' http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.com/

 

Somehow I didn't expect anyone to take it so seriously.

[Wild Storm]

What happened to just playing the game and enjoying it?

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Probably since rights started getting out of hand. Once one guy says "he won't hire me because I'm black" when the real reason was he wasn't qualified for the job, it caught on...

[DeathScepter]

play the game and enjoy it.

 

I do find Mira to be very beautiful.

[dabise]

What the hell is this all about?

 

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I find physically fit women with a pretty face beautiful. If women don't like this, I'm not going to change my preference over a bunch of moaning and whining.

 

 

There are some barriers that have been broken in the male domain to allow females to take part in. Some barriers will never be broken however simply because of genetics.

 

For example, heavy manual labor. Men have this market sealed simply because women lack the strength, durability and endurance to do this job for any extended period of time.

 

However men can't give birth to children

 

What about all of those men who want to give birth to children and cannot... (yes this is a joke)

 

 

 

Anyhow, the point is my preference for women is I like them to enjoy looking sexy and I like them to be physically fit. If that isn't good enough for the feminists then I guess they can leave me alone. I for one will not be pestering them to change.

 

I mean, hell. I wear 'revealing' clothes and I'm a guy. Revealing meaning I love to wear jeans and a tight t-shirt. I don't see the out of shape/fat guys complaining. Maybe the women should follow suit and allow the women who have it to flaunt it.

 

 

In this game, Visas, Handmaiden, Mira etc have it. It is natural for them to flaunt it in some way. When was the last time you saw a fat person practicing sword play and live a life of heavy combat? KOTOR1 and KOTOR2 is just realistic.

 

 

And a note on boobs. (I can't believe I'm even discussing this )

 

LOTS and I mean LOTS of women have exceptional breasts in this world. The problem is their gut pokes out just a little more. They are flaunting them, but that beer tumor around their mid section is stealing the spotlight.

 

 

Try doing some push-ups and sit-ups if you have this problem. Only takes 10 minutes a day. You can do that before you eat breakfast. Using that 10 minutes will also help you avoid that 2nd helping you don't need.

[GhostofAnakin]

Try doing some push-ups and sit-ups if you have this problem. Only takes 10 minutes a day.  You can do that before you eat breakfast.  Using that 10 minutes will also help you avoid that 2nd helping you don't need.

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Do you guarantee this will work? I'm not a woman, but I'd like to lose a few inches off my beer gut. If this doesn't work I want my money back.

[kitty_with_a_lightsaber]

Actually(And this isnt a joke) There's a man in china who's having a baby o.o;(Might have already had it, my boyfriend pointed this out to me a few months ago when we were talking about kids).

 

 

And...um...just ignore the idiocy? I'm guessing that the person that started this thread did it for attention..i.and with five pages of responce she/he got that attention...he/she's probably sitting in his/her chair giggling at how everyones defending the game...and if she/he isnt and is serious on the matter..well..then she/he is utterly stupid.

[Azure79]

AHHH! You're all falling into the feminist trap of sparking meaningless debate!

 

Stop replying!

:D

[GhostofAnakin]

I'm just interested in getting some pointers about losing the extra holiday pounds. :">

[Dread]

Oh, good Lord...

 

This topic really doesn't deserve this much attention.

 

Real world:

 

a.) The concept of equality: Okay, folks, let's get one thing straight. True, total, and complete equality between the genders in all fields is not possible. Like it or not, men and women have very real differences.

 

Equality should mean "equality under the law", which one could make a case that it exists. A determined feminist could also make a case that it does not exist. (Why can't a physically capable woman serve in active combat duty?)

 

Likewise, a determined man could make a case that the law actually favors women in certain circumstances over men. (Family courts for instance, where, generally courts side with mothers over capable and willing fathers.)

 

b.) Special interest groups: A problem of modern feminism is that it has become a special interest group. Special interest groups typically function like unions. They are not interested in achieving an esoteric concept like equality as much as they are in favor of winning special privileges for their members.

 

Worse, special interest groups never die. Even if the problem that they banded together to fight is solved, they will continue to find new problems to justify their existance. Hence a discussion regarding perceived sexism in video games. (This is important, how?)

 

c.) Self-determination: You, and you alone, have power over the course of your life. Whether you are male or female, if you are willing to work hard, sacrifice, and push yourself, you will succeed.

 

This idea that somehow men or women are responsible for how badly life turned out for you is bunk. Yeah, some things in life can blow. Big deal, it happens to everyone. Those who succeed are the ones who can keep fighting. Man, woman, transgender, if you want money, power, and success, you can earn it. No, you probably won't have everything in life, because success at work demands sacrifice at home and success at home demands sacrifice at work. Is it fair? No, but life isn't fair.

 

Anyway, enough hot air from me.

 

Game world:

 

It's fiction, people.

 

Generally speaking: heroes are handsome, heroines are beautiful, villains are either scary looking, plain, or astonishingly beautiful. Everything is exaggerated, why?

 

Because it makes for good narrative. As a kid, I wanted to be the handsome hero with the bulging muscles and the six pack who would fight the good fight, stand up for goodness, truth and nobility and become a hero to the masses.

 

As a man, I don't have bulging muscles and a six-pack. In fact, I'm fairly average looking. Am I offended by heroes now? No. I understand that Heroes (and Heroines) are ideals. They are over-exaggerated represenations of what is good in us.

 

They are beautiful because they represent the ideal of goodness of which beauty is a facet. And, based on current cultural norms, both the men and the women in this game are beautiful, with the exception of Kreia, Mandalore (whose face is hidden), and the droids.

 

Why is Kreia, the strongest woman and personality in the game, aged and less attractive? Because she's playing an archtype: the hero's mentor, the Obi-wan role in the classic trilogy: a wizened old person who becomes a surrogate parent for the hero and points them in the right direction. Age implies wisdom and differentiates the mentor from the romantic lead.

 

As for KotOR1 vs. KotOR2: Personally, I think Visas and Mira are stronger than Bastilla, but that's just my opinion. I wish Obsidian had had another year to develop the game, because I think having a romantic plot line with Mira would've been much more entertaining and interesting than the one that existed between Revan and Bastilla.

 

But that's just my take.

[Darth Jebus]

For what it's worth, I'm still convinced Disciple was gay.

 

Don't know if that counts for anything, though.

[lowiej]

actually he could be, he always said he didnt love the exile in the way Atton did like fancy her and stuff, they should of made him a male recruit aswell

[dabise]

Try doing some push-ups and sit-ups if you have this problem. Only takes 10 minutes a day.  You can do that before you eat breakfast.  Using that 10 minutes will also help you avoid that 2nd helping you don't need.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Do you guarantee this will work? I'm not a woman, but I'd like to lose a few inches off my beer gut. If this doesn't work I want my money back.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

 

Nah I said just try it. I don't stamp it with a guarantee. They can do all the pushups and situps in the world and eat a pound of lard and wash it down with bacon grease and miracle whip and it would have failed by no fault of my own hehe.

 

 

It works for me. It's far more productive than just bitching about it. THAT I can guarantee

 

I had a girlfriend who tried this when I told her about it. She said she wanted bigger boobs and was thinking on getting augmentations done. I told her to make a chart and start with 10 situps and 10 pushups every morning for a week and then double the numbers. Put a checkmark in the day that you complete these exercises. Keep doing it for a few months. Her chest actually got smaller but she firmed up and she lost some of her gut and they 'looked bigger' so she was happy. She had more energy through the day and she stopped drinking coffee because of it.

 

I say give it a shot. The worst that could happen is you quit.

[darth spock]

You do have some good arguments, but I wouldn't create a post about the so-called sexism in KotOR 2. Sure, the guys get a real romance option with two pretty girls and get to spar with a girl in her underwear...

And if being shallow is juding by looks, I'm pretty sure everyone saying that you are shallow have done the exact same thing. I judge on looks sometimes, too; it's human nature. I think that the arguments here are that the guys get the better teammembers and the girls get a pansy and a Pazaak addict (not that I'm complaining about the latter...).

[LadyCrimson]

While some of the points may be valid (not just for this game or the gaming industry, but for the entire entertainment/political/world blah blah) there are far worse examples than this particular game. Focusing on those might be more productive for your 'cause' than trolling this forum.

 

Sex and the body image is part of life, trying to neuter everything into some kind of generic, bland, avoidant & politically correct atmosphere is improbable and probably actually harmful in some ways.

One can take such noble ideals to an extreme.

[tmp]

And if being shallow is juding by looks, I'm pretty sure everyone saying that you are shallow have done the exact same thing. I judge on looks sometimes, too; it's human nature.

I form first impressions from looks and initial behaviour. First impression is a long way from making actual judgement, though... and long way from making forum posts about my judgements, for that matter. :s

 

Opinions, much like wine, need time to refine. "

[Jedi Valius]

"My life is yours master.  I serve only you.  I obey you and clean the Ebon Hawk and I'd like to lick your body if you'd allow me the privilege master... ect."  Her boobs couldn't possibly be any bigger, as they already round corners before she does.

 

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" Gotta love that girl

[Fionavar]

Well Thanks for the interest that all have demonstrated. I think that we have arrived at a tangent that is outside of the scope of KoTor