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Right. Like when you are level 30 on the Ravager and you loot all those high-DC security rooms, the suspense can really kill you. What'll it be? 37 Components? 23 Chemicals? An Ion Grenade? A Verpine Prototype Shield? A medpack? Even TSL's ancient precursor - NWN - was lots better in this regard, because there a treasure chest yielded some sort of treasure every time and not useless junk 99.9% of the time and something valuable 0.1% of the time. The supporting mechanisms are probably still in the engine. And even if not, how difficult could it have been to handplace certain strategic items in the game, like it was done in KotOR with the Circlet of Saresh? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> NWN is ancient? Damn. I'm still playing 5 year old games like Oni, Myth, Legacy of Kain etc Those must be prehistoric. Now what would games like Chrono Trigger and FF1, 2, and 3 rank as? The beginning of time? Being an avid modder for NWN I've seen much of Bioware's scripting and I have to say it is simple and effective. The way they worked it was: There are several different types of chests/treasure containers with a certain tag. Low, Medium and High. From what I remember is they made a loot table and use the character's level and class to determine the loot. Now when you open or destroy a container it runs the random loot script and rolls a number modified by level and class. If you fail the roll you get regular loot and some coin. If you pass the roll you get good loot (in low or medium) and a CHANCE at something specific to your class(es). If you open a high container you get at least one unique item pertaining to your class and you have a chance for more but the roll is much more difficult. If you fail the 2nd roll you get a high grade item, but it's gold value is calculated and liquidated into gold. I was very impressed with the random loot generator in NWN: HotU. I made some modifications in my modules but I kept it relatively the same. I tried my own and when I got to about 4 pages of script code I gave up hehe. TSL's loot script seems to be VERY primitive. It does however make the game more interesting. I wish all games had random loot. I used to play MMORPGs like EQ and DAoC and the thing I found most annoying about them is you KNEW EXACTLY what you could get in each zone from each different enemy. Once you had all that you wanted/needed the zone held very little interest other than mindless XP grinding. I think DAoC changed this but I haven't bothered wasting my cash in the form of a monthly fee for sub-par gaming in a long time. Probably never will again. Not to mention the time sinks and politics. Yeesh! Some folks literally LIVE in those games...

KOTOR2 was probably one of the best games I had ever played. The characters had depth, the theme was grim and depressing (Much like Dragons of Winter Night in Dragonlance) The second installment in any trilogy is always depressing. They set up the story just right... But they friggen ruined the game with that ending. Now the only way they can make up for it is to continue your companions' stories. The solo mission on Malachor V ruined the entire game for me. The long winded ending that really ticked me off. Now as for a game, I'd have to say that KOTOR was great right up to the end. The end of the game is your last impression, and well, they really dropped the ball on the ending. I wanted to see what happened to Visas, Handmaiden, Mandalore, Atton, Mira, Gilligan, The Skipper too, the millionaire, and his wife... the movie star, the Professor and Mary-anne.... Here on Malachor FIVE! You get my point though. I spend all that time learning about my party members. It is arguable that this is the most important part of the game given it's big advancement was the Influence additions. What do we get at the ending? I really don't know. Take Hordes of the Underdark for an example. Made by Bioware, the finally got a Neverwinter Nights campaign done right. The ending is decided by you. You get closure on EVERYONE important to you. Hell, I had Sharwyn as a Henchman in the first chapter, never to see her again, and at the end I learned of what became of her. She was with me for all of 4 hours of a 40 hour game and I got closure for her story. The game flopped at the end, and that is the worst place you can flop. The game's story can suck for the first half, but if you gradually make the story better and make a hell of an ending the player is left with a good impression of the game. KOTOR2 started slow... very... very.. slow. Then after the first planet everything got better. It just kept on getting better and better and then BOOM! The ending comes and ruins the whole experience. I obviously voted NO. I just hope Obsidian can make enough cash doing other folks' projects so they can get away from publishers like Lucas Arts and do their own stuff. Much like Bioware. That is when the games truly get good, when the people who care about the quality call the shots.

I had this problem as well. It *could* be an influence bug. I have also heard that if you gain too much influence with Visas, Handmaiden will not give you some dialogue options. I *HEARD* this and haven't tested it. Testing this would involve me playing TSL again... and I still HATE THE ENDING SO MUCH that I just don't have the motivation to play it again =\

Aww NOW YOU TELL ME. Dear Mom and Dad, I just had a fight with Darth Nihilus. It lasted a whole 5 seconds and I took his mask. After that, Visas and I did some more 'nasty' stuff with the force. She's hot, I think you'll like her. Did I mention she is blind but can put on lipstick without smearing it on her face? Lightsabres are cool.... Love, your son. Dear Son, What the hell are you talking about? Are you on the crack again? You riding the white pony, son? And what about this whole mask business? I know you're ugly, but you said your girlfriend is blind and takes you by force? There's not need for a mask in that case. That lipstick comment has me baffled. Is that what the girls do these days to show that they're hip? I'm down with that. Your mother used to be able to tie the stem of a cherry in a knot with her tongue. I guess she could blindfold herself and put on lipstick to stay groovy in this day and age. Also, the glow in the dark ones can break and are not cool. Trust me, I know. I wouldn't be wasting my time writing to you had I stuck with the more traditional ones. Don't make the same mistake I did. Oh... and I still love you.... your birth was not an accident... I was just kidding.... Yeah... kidding. Love, Dad. Had I known =\

One of the best ideas I have heard to date on how to fix this problem. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Disagree disagree disagree........ If you make K3 like that with no connection with it's predecessors then why even call it K3 when it's completly a new game, makes no sense.... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I still think they should explain what happened to Revan and the Exile in a History format like Exar Kun and Naga Sadow etc. Make them into the new legend for the new generation. I think everyone is missing the point though. Obsidian opened the 'Revan Story' up again. How would you feel if they decided not to make KOTOR3 or just left Revan completely out of the picture (History or otherwise). As for the sane writers not touching a tie in with both KOTOR1 and KOTOR2 stories is because if you only go ahead another 5 years you have to tie a LOT of loose ends DIRECTLY just to make the story make any bit of sense. Not only that, but you have to deal with the many plot holes left behind from the rushed production of KOTOR2. (Screw you Lucas Arts) If they go the way of jumping 100 years into the future they can base the story off of Revan and the Exile's journey but they can leave some dialog tid-bits every so often and then tie it all up rather easily at the end without making a direct Revan/Exile story. Like I said. Re-opening Revan's story may have been a bad move for the possibility of KOTOR3. Had they not focused on Revan so much in the 2nd KOTOR and just made KOTOR2 a stand-alone game and with a complete ending they would have had many different ways to approach KOTOR3. However, now that Revan's story is bust wide open again without any closure, they almost HAVE to tie Revan into the 3rd one and I have this feeling that there won't be enough time for any writer to successfully close a Trilogy under current game development time restrictions. With Revan's story opened up again we have to wait a few years before we can see what happens. Instead of having that 'Oh cool, they mentioned Revan' feeling in KOTOR3 they are almost forced to make a story that revolves around him. I do not envy any writer who takes on this task. I think KOTOR2 inadvertantly shot the KOTOR franchise in the foot since the fans (myself included) needs closure on Revan's story. I still think closing his story with Lore is probably the best idea. That would make KOTOR3 a little more flexible.

Well here are the things I DO know. 1.) They can't use the exile. In doing so, they'd have to give him/her a name. They didn't do that in KOTOR2 like Revan in KOTOR1. 2.) Yes, beyond a shadow of a doubt, Obsidian left the story WAY open to keep us 'wanting more'. The sad thing is they made the story so open (unfinished ) that any sane writer wouldn't touch that mess with a ten foot pole. 3.) Sooner or later they are going to have to tell us what is up with Revan. Thanks to the writing team for KOTOR2 they brought revan back in the mess. I was quite happy with Revan's story being closed within KOTOR1 (He saved the galaxy... or damned the Galaxy... either way, it was a good enough ending to put Revan's story to rest. What should the writers have done? Knights of the Old Republic is just that... the OLD republic. They SHOULD have made KOTOR2 either 100 years AFTER KOTOR1 or 100 years BEFORE KOTOR1. Not 5 or 6 years later. Had they done this, they could have made a whole NEW story that could have been self contained. So, in my opinion, should they make KOTOR3, they should definitely jump ahead a hundred years and give some small hints as to what happened after Traya and Malachor V. All new cast of characters, new story, and leave exile and Revan to the history books. It is the only way I can think of them closing the horribly planned story of KOTOR2 and still keep with the KOTOR universe. I mean, SERIOUSLY! Who in their right mind will try and tie the stories of K1 and K2 in a 3rd installment? The ending of K2 screwed with the K1 ending and by not FINISHING the 2nd story they screwed the ENTIRE KOTOR saga thus far. Where is Mira? Atton? HK-47? T3? Visas? Handmaiden? Hanhar? Mandalore? Bao-Dur? That damn 'solo' mission to Malachor RUINED the KOTOR story. The players deserved to know what happened to their companions, am I wrong? Not giving Exile a name has made it difficult to include him/her in the next installment (if there is one). Continuing Revan's story and doing it poorly has made it so that if they don't close the damn story (again) then there will be a lot of really pissed off KOTOR fans. Imagine the Lord of the Rings movies if they decided not to release Return of the King. Now imagine that the movie was an original story (no J.R.R Tolkien books, pretend Peter Jackson made the story up). How many pissed off people do you think there'd be when Sam and Frodo are almost to Mordor, Smeagol has just made a plan to get the ring back, Saruman has been defeated, Merry and Pippin are with Treebeard etc etc and then they just leave the story open forever. Here's another example. Imagine a very good movie like 'The Fifth Element' had a sequel made. In that sequel they open Leeloo and Korban's story up again and fail to give us closure at the end. That would ruin the original movie. They HAVE to close Revan's story. Thanks to the writers of KOTOR2, we are left hanging on a re-opened story. Dangerous move if you want people to have good memories of the KOTOR universe.

Vrook... so I could kill him again.

I forget where I read this, but if you use a cheat and your stats are over a certain number (3 digits or more I think it was) then the game will go 'wonky' with the alignment and influence. I had this happen to me only once in a game (I haven't used the cheats yet... thinking about it now to see things that I may have missed and not really into building another 'legit' character)

Depends on what class setup my own character is. If I go Guardian, I like to have Visas in my party because she can do it all if you select the proper skills for her. The other slot is filled with HK. I don't know why, but I just like having a droid around for those pesky area effect force powers. HK is always able to fight when I am not. If I go as a consular, I take Mandalore and Handmaiden with me. Mandalor is just plain and simple, a tank. I take Handmaiden for the extra jedi factor with blaster deflections and back-up force powers. For conversations, I enjoy taking HK, Atton, Mira, and Mandalore. Handmaiden and Visas are poor characters in my opinion after playing through the game a few times. I don't enjoy talking with either of them. Kreia gets on my nerves and I wish I could delete her from the game. Some folks think her dialog is intelligent and witty... I agree at some very specific points, but ultimately she says crap like this: "You must master your fears, or your fear will become your master!" "The glass must be half empty for it to be half full!" "Without the darkness, there can be no light." She reminds me of that movie "Mystery Men" and that one dude who became their mentor in the movie. "Don't give people money, because EVERY time you help someone out; some bully will punch them in the gut." Yah, whatever. Stupidest reason to stop the gameplay I ever did witness I really hated Kreia. I enjoyed Malak more than her. At least Malak said what he meant. I mean I HATE kreia so much I just don't play the game anymore. Maybe if I take the time to replace all of her dialog subtitles and audio files to say the same thing "I'm the worst character ever!" in a computerized robotic voice - I may load the game up again. As for the time being, I'm all Kreia'd out. Oh, yah. I never take Kreia with me LOL

Carth didn't die in KotOR1. I've played it through many times as a dark-sider and each time he runs off up the hill from the beach. So maybe he started his own Sitcom called 'Onasi's Island' where a stupid Gizka ruins all of his opportunities to leave the island... err planet. He was still alive though Also if you recall, Revan was a sith before KotOR2. And if I recall correctly, there is a reference that Revan turned from the light side AGAIN (or left the sith to find the other sith and remained dark-side depending on your choices in the dialogue with Atton). Carth said something about Revan. I believe Revan was supposed to be a Sith through and through. You were however given the chance to play him/her as a light-sider in KotOR1. But his head was all screwy from the Dr. Bastilla, Medicine woman treatment so he/she was confused but later came to his/her senses >

It was definitely worth their while.... for the folks who get the game from this day forward or who have waited for the patch while not playing the game. Sadly I loaded up the patch, didn't crash once (patch worked nicely) when I played through Peragus and then i just stopped because the game's ending still makes me not want to play. I'll be happy when that content mod done by the modding community is out.

ROFL. I was about to make a post of how they won and I had lost all interest in the patch... and then much like Wayne Gretzky, OE makes the clutch play and scores the overtime goal (A very extended overtime I might add ) I have a date with the auto updater!

*Elevator Music....* *shrugs*

ROFL. I heard they already made a game like that. It was called Star Wars: Galaxies. You know... that game where you can be anything BUT a Jedi The flaming hoops they made the players jump through to become a Jedi made the training Luc went through look like a piece of cake

Yeah, pretty much sums it all up here in this thread. 1.) The ending sucked. You sliced and diced Kreia up into tiny bits but instead of the obligitory last words she has a 'Last Essay' and if I recall correctly, she even allows you to ask her to repeat what she just said with her grievious wounds and all 2.) One ending I had did not make ANY sense. One moment on Malachor V the ebon hawk is falling into a chasm (and doesn't fly out) and then after Kreia is finished lecturing me on what is to come, I am flying off of Malachor in the ebon hawk? I think what they ended up doing was setting up Kreia to be like that librarian at the end of Hordes of the Underdark (NWN). He tells the story of what happens after you face the 'bad guy' and win. He tells you what happens between you and your romantic interests as well as every NPC that you paid attention to and took the time to learn about. The difference between the HotU librarian and Kreia is that the story was done BEFORE the librarian came out. The Librarian just informed you on some little details about your friends and yourself. Kreia, however was used as a crutch for the KotOR2 ending. They cut so much from the story they had to have her blab for 5 hours while critically wounded to try and salvage OEs hard work. The story was NOT finished. There were just too many loose ends. Her conversation also allows you to skip some information about how the story ends (intentional or not). Very, VERY lame. Another problem with the story was that it was influence driven. If you didn't get the influence you missed some VERY important facts to the story. I've played through a few times already and when I come to these boards and folks mention things they read from certain characters I think to myself: "Hey, that's why this happened" etc. KotOR2 was a great idea. So is a solar powered car. The problem with these two ideas is that if they don't perform like the older technologies people will go back to games that have endings that are finished and gasoline powered cars that can make it up that hill even when the clouds are out For the record, I did like KotOR2... but as soon as I left Dantooine I hated it and haven't seen the ending more than once because every time I get to the meeting at Dantooine I stop playing as I don't want to forget the fun I had getting there. THAT is how bad the ending is. Ever watched a movie where you get to a certain point and just turn it off because the ending is THAT BAD?