Gamespot's Rumor Control

[funcroc]

http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/03/18/news_6120685.html

 

RUMOR #3: A sizeable chunk of Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic: The Sith Lords' story was cut.

 

Source: An angry editorial on Star Wars fan site TheForce.net.

 

The official story: See below.

 

What we heard: When the Xbox version of Sith Lords was released last year, it received a largely positive reception. But soon after the PC edition hit store shelves in February, the game became the subject of a backlash. Gamers poking around the PC version's code found "numerous audio clips containing lines of cut dialogue" which appear on the forums of Sith Lords developer Obsidian Entertainment. On those same forums are written examples of more deleted dialogue. Normally, such clues would point to a cover-up--but the developers freely admit some of the original game spec never made it to the gold master. After a several days of conferring with LucasArts, Obsidian CEO and President Feargus Urquhart told GameSpot, "The truth of the matter is that, much like a movie, a certain amount of the game ends up on the cutting room floor...When it comes to KOTOR II, there was material cut at various times in the game's making, including at the end of the game's development cycle." However, he denied accusations that the game was rushed to make the tail end of the crowded 2004 holiday season. "Often the original ideas or design just don't make sense when put in the context of the final game as it is being put together," he said, as though deadline pressures weren't a factor.

 

Bogus or not bogus?: Unfortunately not bogus.

[Hive]

Yeah, right. And I'm Emperor Palpatine in disguise.

 

They would naturally have cut unwanted parts of the story BEFORE making additional modules - BEFORE having those dialogues recorded - BEFORE making cut scenes...

 

And also, some of the cut content are clearly essential for the story.

 

They could at least admit it, instead of making up crap reasons.

[Feargus Urquhart]

This is what was sent to Gamespot as the official comment from LucasArts and Obsidian:

 

"We've heard from some people that they feel there was another ending

that was not realized in the shipping version of the Star Wars Knights

of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords. The truth of the matter is that

much like a movie a certain amount of the game ends up on the cutting

room floor. This is often because the original ideas or design just

don't make sense when put in the context of the final game as it is

being put together.

 

When it comes to KOTOR II, there was material cut at various times in

the game's making, including at the end of the game's development cycle.

We don't feel that the amount of material was much more or less than we

have had to cut from any of the other games that any of us have worked

on.

 

Ultimately, both Mike and I are proud of the game and of the talented

people at Obsidian who made it with the assistance of LucasArts.

 

Sincerely,

 

Feargus Urquhart, Obsidian CEO & President

Mike Gallo, LucasArts Producer"

[Laozi]

Save Feargus

[Hive]

I still don't buy it. To me, it just looks like something LucasArts arranged because they won't admit releasing an unfinished game.

 

And if all this cut content doesn't make sense for the story, then why did someone from Obsidian at one point post that you guys would like to do a content patch?

[Meshugger]

Atleast there was a reply, hopefully Lucasarts will give Obsidian some funding to release a "added content"-patch. Considering that the original thread about the cut-ending has 432 000 views as we speak + the petition has 6500 signatures to it, and there's about 35 threads about it at the Lucasarts forum.

[Meshugger]

I still don't buy it. To me, it just looks like something LucasArts arranged because they won't admit releasing an unfinished game.

 

And if all this cut content doesn't make sense for the story, then why did someone from Obsidian at one point post that you guys would like to do a content patch?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Why did Francis ford Coppola add 45 minutes to his 3 hour behemoth "Apocalypse Now!"? Why did George Lucas change the original Star Wars trilogy?

[Aegis]

Well, I'm not gonna say anything about this particular scenario, I don't think any good will come out of it. They know already, and hopefully they care. That's probably all we can hope for.

 

However, let's say that the cuts were made because Obsidian ran out of time, just for the sake of argument. Do you really think they, or any developer for that matter, would go out and say "alright, the game sucks. We cut some stuff that was supposed to be in because we ran out of time. Oh, and it's all LA's fault"? That's pretty much suicide in business. Perhaps they are proud of the game, I don't know, but I wouldn't really expect them to say anything else regardless.

 

And if all this cut content doesn't make sense for the story, then why did someone from Obsidian at one point post that you guys would like to do a content patch?

 

I believe the post said that they asked about it. It said nothing about whether they wanted or even intended to make one.

[Shalynn Lors]

More important: Why is the "cut" material still on the cds? Usually games don't include files anymore which were cut out with intention...

[actmodern]

Hi Feargus,

 

I'm very disappointed to see Obsidian Entertainment act in this fashion. No one except the most deluded customer would believe the statement OE and Lucas Arts made.

 

I think the saddest part is that you're not admitting to the short time line. I bid on contracts myself and know how good it looks to promise a complete product in a short time period.

 

It's funny how OE will admit the droid planet was dropped shortly after E3 because of time constraints and then turn around and say this.

 

Please, and I can only really ask once, be big enough to tell your customers the truth.

 

No one is ever beyond redemption, Feargus. You can come back to the light.

[Kiwegapa]

While I do not agree that KOTOR II should have been released in the state that it shipped in, I do respect Feargus and Obsidian Entertainment's pride in the good game that they made and the right to include what they wish. KOTOR II was a good game, one that impressed and inspired me, especially in the early part of the game.

 

That said, I do think that a good game would become great if originally intended content were restored by Obsidian or released to the public.

[Darth Nuke]

"We've heard from some people that they feel there was another ending

that was not realized in the shipping version of the Star Wars Knights

of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords. The truth of the matter is that

much like a movie a certain amount of the game ends up on the cutting

room floor. This is often because the original ideas or design just

don't make sense when put in the context of the final game as it is

being put together."

 

Say what?

 

Cutting stuff is fine, leaving stuff in that is supposed to explore cut stuff is bad.

 

I guess what I'm gathering from this is that Obsidian has horrible editors.

[Mad_Scientist]

While I do not agree that KOTOR II should have been released in the state that it shipped in, I do respect Feargus and Obsidian Entertainment's pride in the good game that they made and the right to include what they wish. KOTOR II was a good game, one that impressed and inspired me, especially in the early part of the game.

 

That said, I do think that a good game would become great if originally intended content were restored by Obsidian or released to the public.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree. KotOR II may be disappointing at the end, but it's still a great game overall, and if it is any indication of what Obsidian can do in about a year's dev time, I'm definitely going to be interested in their other game projects.

[jaguars4ever]

Save Feargus

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

"How much you offering?"

 

 

 

^_^

[Darth Jebus]

I'm kind of having a tough time with the explanation provided by OE and LA. At least the part about not being rushed by the juggernaut known as the Holiday Shopping Season.

 

I mean, yeah, lots of stuff ends up on the cutting room floor in all movies and games, etc. , but when you cut stuff like what we saw in KOTOR II, material that is ABSOLUTELY VITAL to the plot and the climax of the story, and also brilliantly conceived and emotionally moving, there has to be other factors involved.

 

When we have to cut important stuff from our movies, it's absolutely because our marketing department wants us to have the film out by certain date to meet certain bottom line expectations.

 

That's just business. So, I'm having a tough time with that explanation. It was absolutely about Christmas and sales figures.

[Gorth]

He did explicitly say it was the official comment. Being curious by nature, I would love to be a fly on the wall in those offices and get the un-official comments from the people involved... :cool:

[Ivan the Terrible]

In this case, I think is Feargus covering up....but I don't consider that a notch against him. You don't bite the hand that feeds you; simple as that.

[99blackbird]

This is what was sent to Gamespot as the official comment from LucasArts and Obsidian:

 

"We've heard from some people that they feel there was another ending

that was not realized in the shipping version of the Star Wars Knights

of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords.  The truth of the matter is that

much like a movie a certain amount of the game ends up on the cutting

room floor.  This is often because the original ideas or design just

don't make sense when put in the context of the final game as it is

being put together.

 

What could possibly make less sense than the ending that presently exists?

[Wild Storm]

BULL S***! They cut WAY too much out of it for a simple explanation that "some things end up on the cutting room floor like a movie." A movie doesn't cut out IMPORTANT scenes relavant to the plot! And when the movies come out on DVD, most of the time, that content is added back in...

[AgainstOne]

it's funny how when i compared this unfinished game to an unfinished movie in post #226 of this thread, the idiot fanboys here start wailing about comparing apples to oranges and how you can't compare making games to making movies, but when feargus compares making the game to making a movie, they say nothing.

 

hey guys, keep your heads stuck way up feargus' a** ok? if you pull them out now, you might have to actually start thinking for yourselves. and thank you feargus for helping me prove my point!

[Guest Damar Stiehl]

FFS, Feargus, save the BS for someone who was born two minutes ago. You do a lousy impression of Bill Clinton. Just own the hell up already.

 

If you meant the game to be the way it is, if stuff just ended on the cutting room floor, then your gang did one hell of a sloppy cutting job. You left so many threads hanging that it looks like a damn curtain. "But you know this."

[dewaybe2678]

FFS, Feargus, save the BS for someone who was born two minutes ago. You do a lousy impression of Bill Clinton. Just own the hell up already.

 

If you meant the game to be the way it is, if stuff just ended on the cutting room floor, then your gang did one hell of a sloppy cutting job. You left so many threads hanging that it looks like a damn curtain. "But you know this."

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

well said man

[Yst]

The "some things end up on the cutting room floor" argument is the pragmatic position for Obsidian to take at this point, and I in no way hold it against them, that they take it.

 

However, it really isn't ultimately a convincing argument, as much as it has a very basic ring of reason to it.

 

"Some things end up on the cutting room floor" would be a reasonable explanation for the removal of aspects of the game which didn't jibe with the rest of the final product, sure. But it is not a reasonable explanation for plot-holes. In fact, if the removal of parts of KotOR II were analogous to an editing process in cinema, it should have resulted in a more coherently resolved plot, not a less coherently resolved one.

 

KotOR II begins to tell stories which it doesn't finish, and describes and depicts events which contradict other elements of the tale. This isn't the result of careful editing, to use Obsidian's analogy. It's the result of careless, or perhaps at times merely absent editing.

[Arclam]

I am very sure you wont get the whole truth for quite awhile. I'd bet that Obsidian's contract states that they may not say anything that could damage the reputation of Lucasarts or hurt the sales of their games. Id bet that this contract lasts for awhile.

[213374U]

LOL, you guys really crack me up. Perhaps you should re-read Feargus' siggy thing. It clearly reads "CEO, Obsidian Entertainment, Inc". For those of you who are a bit on the slow side, that means he's got responsibilities, other than indulging the raging fanboys who are so horribly disappointed by the unfinished state of the game that they sign up in the developer's boards to whine and moan, but not disappointed enough to return the game and move on.

 

Yes, kids, his responsibilities go beyond that. Despite what mummy says, you aren't the center of the universe, and people can't risk their livelihood just to make you happy. Feargus isn't going to come along and say "hell yeah, half of the game was cut because LA didn't like it and they wanted to have a holiday release". It just isn't going to happen, and the sooner you realize that, the happier everyone will be, and the less electrons you will waste flooding these boards with complaints nobody really cares about. )