The Lopsided Love Story

[stop_him]

I don't know about anyone else here, but as far as the whole romance options go, they seem non-existent in the female PC version.

 

I realize that they are supposed to be subtle romances, but the male PC actually seems to "get somewhere" with his prospects: Handmaiden, Visas.

 

I mean, personally when I played as a female PC, the game felt like it was lacking compared to the male PC:

 

-Kriea remarks about not mating with the Seer, and not lusting after the Handmaiden.

-Handmaiden strips down when you spar.

-Male PCs get that whole "Force Sex" scene with Visas at the end.

-Even Mira seems a bit taken by you.

-Additionally, the other NPC's react to the obvious romantic interest that Handmaiden and Visas have:

 

1. Atton confronts the Handmaiden about her near-naked sparring and tells her to keep her hands where he can see them.

2. Mira tells the Handmaiden how to catch a man, etc.

 

With the female PC - nothing. It's like the dev's said to themselves - "oh yeah, girls might play this game too. We should throw them a bone or two."

 

You do get some cut scenes involving Atton and the Disciple, but it seems to me that it has more to do with the fact that Atton just plain doesn't like the Disciple (neither would I to tell you the truth). The Disciple comes off as someone who just idolizes what the Exile stands for. And who came up with the Disciple anyway? Is that what men think women really want in a man? Because: no.

 

As for Atton, he sees the female PC like he does the male PC: a chance to redeem himself - even more so because she probably reminds him of that last Jedi whom he killed. And like that Jedi who saved him, his "love" for the exile is more of a "you're willing to give up everything for someone you don't even know" kind of love, not romantic love. Just look at his dialogue; it barely changes from when you play as a male to when you play as a female. Some lines are different simply because people do interact differently depending on the sex of the person with whom they are speaking.

 

After going through as a male PC and then going to female, I felt bad for all girl-gamers; talk about the short end of the stick.

 

Why even bother allowing the player the choice between a male and female PC when they're just going to half-ass the character interactions for one sex?

 

Why not include a comment from Kreia that perhaps the female PC's decision to bring Disciple along has more to do with certain carnal intentions, or that said carnal intentions might explain her decision to train both Atton and Disciple?

 

It doesn't make sense, nor does it seem very fair to me anyway. I mean, it's not like girls don't imagine certain "base lusts, certain... indignities..." too. They're just like everyone else.

 

You could make the argument that the dev's perhaps ran out of time when it came to development for female PC interactions, but why only female PCs - that would just seem to validate what I said earlier.

 

It's like the dev's said to themselves - "oh yeah, girls might play this game too. We should throw them a bone or two."

 

Anyway, I just wondered what others thought.

[Eji]

I totally agree.

Although I wouldn't really want Atton to die, having his death scene in the game would've made a definite romance statement... but even then, they didn't give the Exile any real romantic options to respond to him (I know her "You never needed to tell me, Atton, I knew" line reminds me of a lengthier version of Han Solo's "I know", but that's not really good enough). That would have been the perfect opportunity to tell him how she felt, and perhaps give him a bittersweet kiss before he fades away. They needed to give the Exile more romance-related statement options throughout the game that would have forced Atton to either willingly or unwillingly reveal his feelings... because he sure ain't gonna bust out with those a la Carth.

 

Granted, I'm only about halfway through as an LS female, but for some reason I feel that the Carth/Revan pairing (as light as it was) had a lot more flirty-ness to it. I mean, Atton has his moments every now and then (talking about your outfit on Peragus, asking Bao what he thinks of his chances with you, etc). Heh, I mean being able to call Carth a hairless wookie and have the situation play out in a Han/Leia bantering kinda way without losing his favor was pretty fun... teasing him when he gets flustered about praising you, etc. I can't seem to get as risky with my dialogue with Atton, not without losing influence, anyway.

 

Atton does seem to have a lot of instances where he shows affection or concern, and I interpreted that as him liking me... until I read your post and realized he might say pretty much the same thing to the male Exile.. .

But maybe that's what happens when you have a character as emotionally/mentally scarred as he is. The whole chameleon act with his feelings probably does a number on himself as well, and it makes him a lot more indirect about things. Carth may have come off as "whiney", but that's because he spoke his mind, from his heart... Perhaps if Atton hadn't been so messed up, he could have done the same and been a lot more forthcoming with his feelings.

[stop_him]

Atton does seem to have a lot of instances where he shows affection or concern, and I interpreted that as him liking me...  until I read your post and realized he might say pretty much the same thing to the male Exile.. .

Indeed, the only difference between male/female exile is the flirting on Peragus and then the Pazaak line of "you'll be right here with me playing Pazaak where they can't reach you." To a male PC he says something about how a Jedi or Sith will use their powers to hold you by the throat. I believe those are the ONLY differences.

 

I raised an eyebrow when Atton told the fake Batu off; I remember thinking "Hey, I'm a MAN and can take care of myself!"

[Eji]

I raised an eyebrow when Atton told the fake Batu off; I remember thinking "Hey, I'm a MAN and can take care of myself!"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

lol... yeah, I'd like some female-specific moments where Atton would stand up for you, maybe like in KoTOR1 where Carth threatens to punch out that miner dude in the Tatooine cantina (who was cheating on his wife) if he doesn't speak to you more respectfully.

[Althernai]

Anyway, I just wondered what others thought.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Before anything else, I'd like to say that I think your post is unique. It is certainly the only one of its kind that I've ever seen. I've seen people quote themselves -- typically for emphasis or when people don't seem to get it. However, this is the first time I've seen someone quoting themselves in the same post where the original statement is found. Very weird.

 

About the actual post, I think you exaggerate somewhat. Not that female romances are awesome or detailed, but the male ones are pretty much the same. I don't recall the female version of the game very well (I watched my friend play rather than going through it myself), but there was definitely some flirting with Atton. Also, you complain about the Disciple, but Visas has a much bigger problem -- I never could understand where her "My life for yours" attitude comes from. She starts with this right after I first fight her, so I have no idea what I've done to warrant it.

 

Male or female, this game requires you to create most of each romance in your imagination.

[stop_him]

Before anything else, I'd like to say that I think your post is unique. It is certainly the only one of its kind that I've ever seen. I've seen people quote themselves -- typically for emphasis or when people don't seem to get it. However, this is the first time I've seen someone quoting themselves in the same post where the original statement is found. Very weird.  

[Yunerz]

About the actual post, I think you exaggerate somewhat. I recall the female version of the game very well (I watched my friend play rather than going through it myself), but there was definitely some flirting with Atton.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Exaggeration or no, we got the short end of the stick. Visas and The Handmaiden had these great dramatic scenes with you before the Ravager. Disciple just attempts to console you (using a few of the same lines Visas does). Atton? We don't hear much out of him once you finish training him. I also don't recall much flirting at all.

 

But you are right, the romance options for either gender leave much to the imagination. The males still get a bit more in the end though.

 

Otherwise I completely agree with her original post. GG

[Darth Rabbit]

I have to say i agree on this matter

 

For me the most irritating part was when you are going to the Ravanger and the only thing that you can get from Atton is the pazaak option <_< and that

[Hacane]

i dont know about Female character but i didnt think male character was much good to be honest. I corrupted handmaiden turned her into a dark jedi and made her renounce her oath to atris but she acted as if it had never happened afterwards and the scene mentioned where atton tells her to keep her hands where she can see them was never followed on from.

 

And vissa was worst. She sasy nothing at all about it until just before you go to board the ravenger and it comes out of the blue.

 

The scenes may be there for the male but they were poorly implemented or at least not explained very well.

[Sarai]

just like most of the game

[dufflover]

a) Kriea remarks about not mating with the Seer, and not lusting after the Handmaiden.

b) Handmaiden strips down when you spar.

c) Male PCs get that whole "Force Sex" scene with Visas at the end.

d) Even Mira seems a bit taken by you.

e) Additionally, the other NPC's react to the obvious romantic interest that Handmaiden and Visas have:

 

1. Atton confronts the Handmaiden about her near-naked sparring and tells her to keep her hands where he can see them.

2. Mira tells the Handmaiden how to catch a man, etc.

 

a) I was suprised to get that dialog after just talking to Visas for the first time, then talking to Kreia. It's not as if that conversation had any flirt options, especially being the first conversation

b) I've only played one game but I take it you don't get the "why do you train without clothes" option as Female?

c) I'm not sure who started calling it that (was it you?) but I wouldn't put it anywhere near that level

d) Too bad it doesn't go anywhere - at least she can wear the dancers outfit

e) Everytime I got an Ebon Hawk cutscene between two party members, it was usually showing distrust (or Bao upgrading something).

1. I can't remember that fully but I didn't seem to notice any romance related talk, again, mainly distrust.

2. How did you get that! I want it, I want it!

 

 

I think the Handmaiden one is better cos you save her from the delusioned Atris - but then never hear from her again.

[Leia Emperius]

I strongly agree. Both male and female relationships may be lacking, but I think the female one lacks a little bit more. There should have been more dialogue options with Atton after you've trained him to become a Jedi. And there should have been follow-up to certain cutscenes such as where he watched the Exile and the Disciple meditate with Kreia. Mira almost calls him out on his feelings and threatens to decipher them eventually, but nothing more is heard from that. There could've been a little more flirting, even if it wasn't as "in your face" as that between Carth and Revan from Kotor I.

 

The worst thing is, you never know if he loved you or not until you listen to Kreia's premonitions of the future. There should've been something. I know this particular point would have been solved with the ending that had been planned, however.

[AngryTarsier]

someone change the line in the topic, add the magic word "bao-dur"

coz for some unknown reason, a lot of people think OE should have added a romance option for the big "horny" guy(no pun intended)

 

my little rant: my problem is why is there no dialog tree like in kotor 1, true you can review the dialogs in kotor1 but some will only be present in certain situations. It makes the romance ootion a little bit interesting since the guy/gal isn't spilling his/her hearts out on the first meeting... so to speak

[darth spock]

I agree with you. I played as Female PC (starting) as I did in K1. I was so happy there was a Carth romance because whenever you want two people in a story to get together, they never do, but K1 was luckily an acception.

 

In K2, however, I was so disappointed when there was nothing of an Atton romance. From the beginning, I thought of Disciple as a weirdo with no real name, a history I could care less about, the most annoying voice God ever created, and has strange definitions of "relationship"; when he explained what a "relationship" was to Atton, it sounded as a textbook answer. And in the endgame after finally defeating Kreia after many tries, I was so glad when she gave me closure on the characters... not very impressed in the manner in which it was given and after she explained about Mira and all I was sort of disappointed. I was thinking, "This is like some sort of stupid prediction!" Anyways, I was getting tense when she says, "Disciple loves you... blah blah blah." It's like, "I want to REJECT HIM, you idiot!" So yeah, finally Atton was last. And I was glad when there was the "Did he love me?" option. But, I was so angry when she said, "He is a fool and that should answer all your questions." WHAT?! It's like she's insulting me for calling him a fool to love me or that he's just stupid and lies to himself. Too cryptic... bah.

 

When I found out Atton's death was cut, I was disappointed with Obisidian. But then again some stuff is cut. Luckily someone made a mod for K1 where you could get the cut Carth ending back in. (I replayed the Star Forge for it :\).

 

But, seriously... where's the female PC's romances? I'm now playing as a guy, hoping to get something of a romance between either Handmaiden, Visas, or Mira.

[witchzenka]

"And who came up with the Disciple anyway? Is that what men think women really want in a man? Because: no."

Yes! I had a long argument with someone on another board about that (a male) who insisted the Dsiciple was the better deal.

If he was my only romance choice, I'd have to kill him - no sense of humor. I can't live without that.

I have a crush on Bao-Dur - but I have one on Sion too. And Atton. (Not that I'm easy...) And before anyone accuses me of being pixel-sexual - it's not a "real" crush, like I'd have on a real person - more like the crush I had on Jareth forever.

Anyway - ITA with what's being said on this thread. The almost-kinda-romance was not enough - make a real one if you are going to include one.

[Vetty]

I agree with you. I played as Female PC (starting) as I did in K1. I was so happy there was a Carth romance because whenever you want two people in a story to get together, they never do, but K1 was luckily an acception.

 

In K2, however, I was so disappointed when there was nothing of an Atton romance. From the beginning, I thought of Disciple as a weirdo with no real name, a history I could care less about, the most annoying voice God ever created, and has strange definitions of "relationship"; when he explained what a "relationship" was to Atton, it sounded as a textbook answer. And in the endgame after finally defeating Kreia after many tries, I was so glad when she gave me closure on the characters... not very impressed in the manner in which it was given and after she explained about Mira and all I was sort of disappointed. I was thinking, "This is like some sort of stupid prediction!" Anyways, I was getting tense when she says, "Disciple loves you... blah blah blah." It's like, "I want to REJECT HIM, you idiot!" So yeah, finally Atton was last. And I was glad when there was the "Did he love me?" option. But, I was so angry when she said, "He is a fool and that should answer all your questions."  WHAT?! It's like she's insulting me for calling him a fool to love me or that he's just stupid and lies to himself. Too cryptic... bah.

 

When I found out Atton's death was cut, I was disappointed with Obisidian. But then again some stuff is cut. Luckily someone made a mod for K1 where you could get the cut Carth ending back in. (I replayed the Star Forge for it :\).

 

But, seriously... where's the female PC's romances? I'm now playing as a guy, hoping to get something of a romance between either Handmaiden, Visas, or Mira.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Totally agreed here. I perfectly felt same like you.

Ya, I've been waiting the dialogue about Atton in last conversation with Kreia after owned her.

(of course I expected cool ending stuffs too after those finished.)

 

She said Disciple loved me, omg I never care if he loves me or not because I have never tried anything to him to get his affection!!

(There must be someone who like him more of course but I'm just not..)

 

what about Atton.. He's a fool, ya I don't care whatever you call him Kreia!!

But How could it be the answer to "He loves me?" question like she said?

 

Atton, he was last, so I was really expecting something when she finally give me the chance to ask about him!!(and his love in me )

 

but fool? huhuh!!

and even more why should I have this option - "Did You love me?" - to ask in the middle of Atton subject.

 

I admit I'm clinging to Atton things too much but you know.. well...

 

I just finished KOR1, I just hope there were the chance too in KOR2 to say my feeling very directly like *I love you*

(like Carth's, and listen the answer in return )

to Atton or anyone the players like to. Visas,handm,mira if you are a male..

 

Hehe Well

[darth spock]

I now seriously wish that you could take Carth out of the DS ending on K1 and insert DIsciple so you could kill him. :D

 

Because to me, Disciple is just some sort of "follow-your-heart" sort of guy who is just, underneath it all, a prettyboy with nothing but his Mom's promise she loves him forever.

[theusualspleen]

My first time through the game was as a LS female, and the "romance" stuff was really weak. It seemed like the Disciple was supposed to be the big romantic interest, but when I first found out his backstory I couldn't help but think "creepy stalker." Atton had some fun banter (mainly on Peragus, talking about the Exile's semi-dressed state), but it just isn't enough. And that's sad, because Atton was awesome.

 

I'm a little bit into a DS male game, though, so I'll hopefully see slightly better romance soon.

[Creston]

I haven't actually played through as a female character yet, but I have to say that the "romances" for the male character are pretty lacking when compared to the first Kotor.

 

Visas - Comes out of nowhere, immediately says that she will die for you (errr, what?), then Kreia told me I shouldn't mate with her, when I hadn't EVEN TALKED TO VISAS YET (errrrrr, WHAT???) and is then never talked about again, until just the end before the Ravager, when Visas makes a marginally decent romantic effort.

 

Handmaiden - It builds up marginally well with her, but then goes absolutely nowhere, except for one point where you can say to her that you were scared she was dead (after the Atris fight).

 

Mira - Blablabla, if we share a bunk, the other girls would hate me, and you're too old.

 

That's the extent of the male character romances. Impressed you are, hmmm? No?

 

Then again, perhaps we are being slightly too harsh on Obsidian here. It took Bioware (and David Gaider especially) a few attempts to get some decent romances going in their RPGs as well, especially for female characters.

 

Creston

[Eji]

Then again, perhaps we are being slightly too harsh on Obsidian here. It took Bioware (and David Gaider especially) a few attempts to get some decent romances going in their RPGs as well, especially for female characters.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

True. Did you read Gaider's own ending to the Carth/Revan thing? A bit melodramatic, but very satisfying.

[Taran'atar]

I dunno. I haven't played as a male PC yet, so I can't compare them, but I actually kinda liked the way the romances played out with the female exile. Atton and the Disciple fall in love with her over the course of the game, and she has no, or very little idea. Their love goes unrequited, and at the end she leaves and probably never sees them again. There's no happily ever after here. I like that, it's a little more real.

 

Regarding Atton and the Disciple: I would guess that the exile would like Atton more. Don't most women like guys that have names?

[AngryTarsier]

hey disciple has a name, you have to dig for it like the handmaiden, in the ending my pc didn't refer to her as handmaiden, he called her brianna. or am I just confused..

[theusualspleen]

Don't most women like guys that have names?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That would be my assumption. I can't imagine a woman would find it romantic to say "I love you, Disciple."

[Eji]

Don't most women like guys that have names?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That would be my assumption. I can't imagine a woman would find it romantic to say "I love you, Disciple."

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Not only that, but his gigantic teeth drive me nuts... can't he file those down or something?

[stop_him]

Not only that, but his gigantic teeth drive me nuts... can't he file those down or something? 

Wow, you're being generous with that comment there. Atton may be the scoundrel, but Disciple's the one with the stupid face. <_<

 

If I could, I would've politely asked him to put a bag over his head.

 

QUICK! Somebody make a mod for said equipable item! It would be good for those players who hate Kreia too. lol.