Some questions I have about Revan and TSL

[Bulgaroctonus]

Yeah, I thought it was pretty clear that Revan discovered the True Sith while in the Outer Rim, and realized them to be a greater threat than the Mandalorians. So, he fed upon the Dark Side at the Trayus Academy, but was never consumed as Malak was. He used the power he gained their to turn the Jedi that had joined him, and returned to the Republic to conquer and unify it so he could destroy the True Sith.

 

However, KOTOR happened, and Malak destroyed everything Revan was trying to build. So, as a DS Revan, he returned to Korriban to try and unite the Sith, but petty factional strife and their own ineptitude caused Revan to leave and decide to fight the True Sith on his own.

[Tyrell]

I have to agree with Ty about Anakin not falling to the DS in EpII. I too have also watched the documentary and Lucas talks about Anakin dealing with the DS and his emotions and what not but does not fall. To disregard Lucas, the GOD of Star Wars is beyond redemption.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Exactly!

 

Anyways to stay on subject. I really don't know what to view of Revan now really. Do I view him as the same? You know, the ex Jedi who became evil and wanted to conquer all. Or the ex Jedi who became evil....for the right cause but unfortunatly got caught all up in it.

[NeverwinterKnight]

Anyways to stay on subject. I really don't know what to view of Revan now really. Do I view him as the same? You know, the ex Jedi who became evil and wanted to conquer all. Or the ex Jedi who became evil....for the right cause but unfortunatly got caught all up in it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

depends which ending you believe to be more "canon". if you believe kotor1 ending to be more canon, then go with the former. if you believe the latest ending (ie. tsl) to be more canon, go with the latter.

 

personally, since lucasarts gave the okay for both endings, and since this is supposed to be a continuity between games, id have to say the kotor2 ending is the one that will be "canon".

[TentamusDarkblade]

he sort of is doing something that is completly inapropriate.

If ole' lucas refers to wholesale slaughter of men, women and children in a fit of anger as sort of doing something inappropriate then that just shows how bat-**** insane lucas is.

 

So when Alderaan was blown away, was Vader just doing something mildly unacceptable?

 

Lucas struck gold with the original trilogy, but has done nothing but ruin the franchise with his handling of the prequel trilogy. So excuse me if i completely disregard what that hack has to say.

[Rex]

I'd tend to agree that Lucas is kind of ruining his Star Wars Universe, but regardless, it is his to ruin. His word is Canon, and there is nothing we can really do about it except call him an inept hack. Stormtroopers aren

[Tyrell]

I'd tend to agree that Lucas is kind of ruining his Star Wars Universe, but regardless, it is his to ruin. His word is Canon, and there is nothing we can really do about it except call him an inept hack. Stormtroopers aren’t Clones, damn it.

 

As for DS Revan, I still do not understand the logic of abandoning all power and the 100% chance of forging a great, majestic, and vast empire, in order to go off on some quest to stop an entire empire, alone. Where is the logic in this? Malak was a set back, he did not destroy Revan’s chances of forging an empire, he just delayed it. After killing Malak, Revan was the undisputed leader of the Sith, completely in control. He should have stayed, created his empire, then lead a massive battle fleet to the “Real Sith” empire.

 

As LS Revan, KotOR 2’s storyline makes a lot more sense. I can see a redeemed LS Revan going off on a one man crusade. It is unfortunate that KotOR 2’s developers decided to favor a LS ending when created the storyline.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

If I'm not mistaken, in TSL at the beginning once you saved Atton. If you made Revan DS, didn't he say something like the rumors say that once Revan returned to Korriban to begin his new rule as Sith Lord, he said that once he got there there was some huge Civil War that broke out on Korriban which destroyed the Sith Academy and killing almost all if not ALL of the Sith there. With that being said, it would make since for DS Revan to go and fight to True Sith alone, because what he had on Korriban was already gone.

 

It all boils down to that old saying "If you want something done right, then you do it yourself" or something like that. Revan tried to bring others into it as he created the fleet and such from the Forge. But after the Civil War on Korriban, he just figured that it was best for him to go out alone and just take matters into his own hands....until the Exile comes of course.

 

Thats just my opinion.

[TentamusDarkblade]

nope, it's discussed that Revan could have stuck around and unified the galaxy, but left for reasons unknown. Bastila is left on Korriban to consolidate the remaining Sith there, but she can't handle the growing civil strife and takes off after Revan, leaving Korriban to eat itself.

[Zilod]

I plaied both KOTOR mainly as LS and i'm very near to TentamusDarkblade vision, i think it also explain well why a knight like him fell to DS. (TSL do a great job here)

 

I only disagree with the statement that Revan was still good, in my vision Revan truly fell to DS becoming a sith, his intentions where good, and that was necessary for a greater benefit to the galaxy, but is different than to remain good.

 

Revan seem to be truly a tragic character, forced to embrace the evil and to lose himself and he ones who love to "save" the galaxy.

 

In this light i think we should also consider the magnitude(?) of Kreia and the Exile, the jedi civil war, the fall of Revan and of all the jedi with him, all seem to be the result of a tragic destiny, a destiny with no choices.... the will of the force.

 

This is what Kreia is fighting, she is fighting the force, the lack of choice for people bounded to it and here is why the exile is so important, because he actually chose his destiny, a thing that not even Kreia or Revan where able to fully do... He forged his destiny while Revan succumbed to it.

 

I stop here or i will go too much OT eheh and sorry for my english and some confusion....

 

 

 

last thing about Anaking fall....

 

Exile: Why you destroyed Atris?

Darth Traya: I never destroyed Atris, She destroyed herself, i merely stript away the veil of illusions and brought her truth.

 

(ehm dunno if the quote is 100% accurate as my english is quite crappy )

[Objulen]

Overall, I would not consider Revan to be a hero in KotOR 1 during the events that lead up to her/his capture. The game clearly depicts Revan as a villain, as are all Dark Jedi/Sith.

 

The difference is that in KotOR 2, it raises the issue that while Dark Jedi/Sith are certainly not heros, they may just be anti-heros who are not quite evil per se, as demonstrated by the "greater" evil of the Sith and their design to destroy the Force, i.e. snuff out all life.

 

As for Lucas, he's non canon as far as I'm concerned. The entire metaclorian mess and near-Jesus complex in Episode 1 killed it for me. He created a great universe, but he can't direct (at least by himself) and he can't write.

[TentamusDarkblade]

good post Zilod

 

 

You've summed it up really well. I'm also glad you brought that quote up, since it's a good example of what Fearless and i were discussing.

[TentamusDarkblade]

As for Lucas, he's non canon as far as I'm concerned. The entire metaclorian mess and near-Jesus complex in Episode 1 killed it for me. He created a great universe, but he can't direct (at least by himself) and he can't write.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ahmen to that!

 

[rant]

I really think that folks like Lawrence Kasdan, Leigh Brackett, Irvin Kershner, Richard Marquand, and David Webb Peoples deserve just as much, if not more credit for the greatness of the Star Wars Universe since they were the writers and the directors who fleshed out and crafted Lucas' Flash Gordon/Hidden Fortress rip-off into it's own solid sci-fi mythos.

 

Nowadays it's folks like Timothy Zahn, Michael Stackpole, the design crew at Obsidian and Bioware, and the various writers at Dark Horse that are keeping star wars alive since ole' George seems determined to kill it with asinine plots, 2 diminsional characters, and plain wretched directorial and editorial jobs.

[/rant]

[Zilod]

Overall, I would not consider Revan to be a hero in KotOR 1 during the events that lead up to her/his capture. The game clearly depicts Revan as a villain, as are all Dark Jedi/Sith.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I don't agree too much...

even in KOTOR Revan was pictured as an hero, he had hunger for knowledge and was strong in the force, but he saved the republic when he joined the war.

There are many dialogues about that and i never had the impression that he moved war to gain more power, but really to save the republic or even better, people under mandalorian's menace.

 

There are also dialogues that stated that Revan actually changed during the exploration so he was not everytime a bad guy...

 

I agree that when he returned with the sith armada he acted as a villain and the council/republic consider him evil, but was never pictured like that for his nature, but for his actions... this is a subtle but substantial difference.

 

Actually for all KOTOR (even before the rivelation) i was asking myself... why he/she felt?

if he was pictured as a "simple" villain i think i never had such unresolved question.

[Jedi Master D Murda]

I have to agree that in K1 Revan was portrayed as an evil person who wanted to rule the galaxy. But was killed by Bastila and Malak. Turns out he wasn't killed but captured and had his memory wiped and redeemed himself. But in K2 Revan is like a hero though evil. He "sacrificed" himself to the darkside so that he could save the Republic. Question is why? Why not just join the "True Sith" or have them join you. Answer might be that these "true Sith" are worse than Freedon Nadd who was worse than Malak and Revan and so on and so on. We'll just have to wait and see.

[Qbob452]

Consider that Revan is the exile returned from the other rim.

[Gorth]

As for Lucas, he's non canon as far as I'm concerned. The entire metaclorian mess and near-Jesus complex in Episode 1 killed it for me. He created a great universe, but he can't direct (at least by himself) and he can't write.

Ahmen to that!

 

[rant]

I really think that folks like Lawrence Kasdan, Leigh Brackett, Irvin Kershner, Richard Marquand, and David Webb Peoples deserve just as much, if not more credit for the greatness of the Star Wars Universe since they were the writers and the directors who fleshed out and crafted Lucas' Flash Gordon/Hidden Fortress rip-off into it's own solid sci-fi mythos.

 

Nowadays it's folks like Timothy Zahn, Michael Stackpole, the design crew at Obsidian and Bioware, and the various writers at Dark Horse that are keeping star wars alive since ole' George seems determined to kill it with asinine plots, 2 diminsional characters, and plain wretched directorial and editorial jobs.

[/rant]

Well ranted. The guy should stick to making Ewok movies, that's what he is best at.

 

As for why Revan didn't stick around on the Starforge if playin DS, perhaps he realised that it was a tool he could not really control, in the end he would become a slave, "fuel" for the starforge and it's corrupting influence. Solutions had to be found elsewhere.

[hannobal]

Consider that Revan is the exile returned from the other rim.

 

Well there's many NPCs in Kotor2 (Bao-Dur for example) who recognize The Exile as one of the generals of Revan's army, but not Revan.

[Orchomene]

I have to agree that in K1 Revan was portrayed as an evil person who wanted to rule the galaxy. But was killed by Bastila and Malak. Turns out he wasn't killed but captured and had his memory wiped and redeemed himself. But in K2 Revan is like a hero though evil. He "sacrificed" himself to the darkside so that he could save the Republic. Question is why? Why not just join the "True Sith" or have them join you. Answer might be that these "true Sith" are worse than Freedon Nadd who was worse than Malak and Revan and so on and so on. We'll just have to wait and see.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Revan would not 'join' the true sith. It's not the sith way of life. He would naturally fight them to show them he is more powerful. They were ennemies when he felt to the DS (if he felt, he could have just become a lost jedi without morality, even a sith one, but it's difficult to know), they remain ennemies after.

 

One thing I'm wondering. Forty years before, the mandalorian fought the republic because of Exar Kun (sp), then, only forty years after years after, they do the same ? It's dumb !

[Jedi Master D Murda]

I have to agree that in K1 Revan was portrayed as an evil person who wanted to rule the galaxy. But was killed by Bastila and Malak. Turns out he wasn't killed but captured and had his memory wiped and redeemed himself. But in K2 Revan is like a hero though evil. He "sacrificed" himself to the darkside so that he could save the Republic. Question is why? Why not just join the "True Sith" or have them join you. Answer might be that these "true Sith" are worse than Freedon Nadd who was worse than Malak and Revan and so on and so on. We'll just have to wait and see.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Revan would not 'join' the true sith. It's not the sith way of life. He would naturally fight them to show them he is more powerful. They were ennemies when he felt to the DS (if he felt, he could have just become a lost jedi without morality, even a sith one, but it's difficult to know), they remain ennemies after.

 

One thing I'm wondering. Forty years before, the mandalorian fought the republic because of Exar Kun (sp), then, only forty years after years after, they do the same ? It's dumb !

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I don't quite understand what you are getting at. Why wouldn't Revan not want to join the True Sith? And what is not the Sith way of life?

[AlanC9]

As LS Revan, KotOR 2

[The Great Phantom]

As LS Revan, KotOR 2

[Mondo]

Revan's just scouting out his enemy or looking for other weapons to help him in the upcoming war.

 

:ph34r:

[Jedi Master D Murda]

Revan's just scouting out his enemy or looking for other weapons to help him in the upcoming war.

 

:ph34r:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Nah. I think Revan actually thinks he can take on the Sith Empire on his own. Or maybe it was planned for Kreia to teach the Exile so that he can teach others so that a new order can be built to help with the upcoming war.

[radical]

First of all, the key to understanding k2 entirely lies within our perception of the force. During the games and the movies, the force was explained many times, never before as something so complex as in k2. The force is a very controversial thing. During the games it was said the force has a will of its own, and that it has three major sides: l, or d, or simply the absence of it. Of course the will of the force might compromise the free will of life (by life I mean all kind of aware life: Jedi, and simple humans as well), that means that characters, have no real choice, and this is untrue, for the games are all about your choice. To give an explanation to this, I might say, that Nietzsche

[Ulicus]

I think Revan always stayed Good. He discovered a threat to everything he knew and, like any general in any war, Revan was forced to make the hard choices. He had to fall to be able to use the Sith weapons of war, since they were the most powerful. Revan didn't fall for power-lust, or for the thrill of battle, or for any typical dark side reason. Revan fell because it was the only thing he could do to save the republic.

 

It's a wonderfully tragic idea, i think. I soldier who's sense of duty drives him to shoulder such weights and to face his own damnation to fulfill his duty to the Republic.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I

[The Great Phantom]

First of all, the key to understanding k2 entirely lies within our perception of the force. During the games and the movies, the force was explained many times, never before as something so complex as in k2. The force is a very controversial thing. During the games it was said the force has a will of its own, and that it has three major sides: l, or d, or simply the absence of it. Of course the will of the force might compromise the free will of life (by life I mean all kind of aware life: Jedi, and simple humans as well), that means that characters, have no real choice, and this is untrue, for the games are all about your choice. To give an explanation to this, I might say, that Nietzsche