radical

good...we made a hot topic out of zis vone! Since I don't want to search the topics...which game did you find better the 1st or the 2nd k, and y?

nice excuse

I was wondering how fast u would answer...u were quite slow this time

thnx! I am not new btw...when the game appeared I finished it in 4 days, then spent posting for like a month Didn't post mutch, because I formulated my opinions in really long texts, which for many was boring, and many missed my point...eventually I quit posting, but still read, these comments however could not go unnoticed. Thnx for the respect. Hope to see some of your posts...

I think you really missed the point. If played light side (haven't finished it ds yet)she dies with purpose, with the same purpose she had when living and manipulating everyone. She wanted to make the exile free of the influence of the force. She explained this in the end, she also loved the exile, as a mother loves a child, she was enlightened, and there was more philosophy in her words and teachings than in the teachings of any other SW character (including the movies). Her death was an inevitable act in the exiles evolution, it made the exile more mature. She thaught important lessons about life, philosophies borrowed in part from Nietzche, I wouldn't go as far to name them DS. I felt sorry when she died, as I pointed out before, she was the most complex character in the whole SW universe, in comparison to her Malak was 2D. If kotor 3 ever gets to see the light of day, I hope they will create a character at least as complex as she was.

Kreia was indeed stripped free of the force, but not by the council, but by Nihilus, whereas the Exile gave up the force, by his own will. Regarding the original question: I believe Kreia was not disturbed by the fact that Revan fell, she actually agreed, on a logical plane anyway, with all that was done by Revan. Kreia made coneections all the time, very deep connections, I couldn't call them bond, because they are not necessarely related to the force, these connections, well, they could be called love, such a love that a mother has for her child. Kreia had no problem with Revans choices, she felt lonely because Revan parted ways with her, even though she approved of his choices. And this loneliness she felt drove her to be the Exiles teacher, and she was happy to die by the Exiles hand, for untill the moment of her death she felt close to him, and she was truly proud.

I only played LS so I wouldn't know about how difficult beating Vrook is, but I see people had most difficulty with him. I had no problem killing anyone, sadly. From the series Malak is still the hardest to beat (I ran around a lot, but succeded eventually). I found Traya easy to beat: I had a double bladed lightsaber, best possible upgrades I found (including the crystal I got in exchange for the open visa on Onderon), master speed, master valor, master battle meditation, inspire followers III, and I was lvl 17 sentinel/10 master. The hardest for me in k2 was beating the twilek mercenaries with Atton, who was not even close to becomming a Jedi then, that was a lot harder than any Mira/Hanharr conflict.

It is hard however to determine what she deserved, after all she can easily pass as one of the best characters of the SW saga, and players could really connect despite the fact that she was manipulative, and arrogant at times. Players, I believe, praise what she represents: a milestone in npc and story creating.

I agree, we did kind of say the same things... btw did you like the movies? or what do you think, which's story is better: kotor or the movies? or can they even be compared?

I believe that at the base of our difference of opinions lies a different type of interpretation of the force and fate. Easily put: you like to explain the phenomena via comparisons ( analogies ), whilst i try to explain things in a global scientific way. I do wonder however if GL ever thought this much about his universe as the people on this forum do?...and should i dare: does he understand his universe best?

I never stated there was no choice. I wrote my opinions about freedom-will relation (Nietzsche), and in accordance with that there is choice, and there is choice above all else. As Satr stated us humans allways have choice, even in the most extreme of situations, just that some choices have as consequence scenarios that the choice maker does not want to accept. I almost accept this theory, the difference is that every persons reality and fate is determined by a lot of other (present based) factors, that have no connection to the choices of the person in question, as most obviously this person's actions are factors for other persons' fates. So fate, and the future events to come are mutch like a wave of circumstance, and as you stated in motion, and it is a lot easier to just go with it. The will of the force is like a stronger wave in the SW universe.

And yes it is against human nature, as experienced in the real world

I do try to scientificate (i do wonder if such word exists) the force, but it is easier for me to interpret it this way. The force has a will, but i never said it is concious, it is just trying to balance, and this process of forever balancing is majorly uneffected at a global level by the concious will of those connected to it.

I accept your analogy, but i have a different vision of the Force-exile relation During the games and the movies, the force was explained many times, never before as something so complex as in k2. The force is a very controversial thing. During the games it was said the force has a will of its own, and that it has three major sides: l, or d, or simply the absence of it. Of course the will of the force might compromise the free will of life (by life I mean all kind of aware life: Jedi, and simple humans as well), that means that characters, have no real choice, and this is untrue, for the games are all about your choice. To give an explanation to this, I might say, that Nietzsche

I was a bit tired to explain what i really think about kreia, but here goes... Kreia had two important goals in my vision. She wanted power, and what other is power, than the possibility to truly decide, to have freedom of choice. The more areas you can influence, the more power you have; the problem only is, if the force has a will so powerful, then you will never be able to have true power. She saw an undoing of this rule, she saw the true wound in the force: the exile. She immediatly realised that the exile is not bound to the force, and he is not so by his own free will ( this is the difference between Nihilus and the exile ). Only the exile could become truly powerful; and the exile represented that what she could never be. Afterwards as a parent who wants his/her child to overcome them she taught the exile, because she loved him, as a mother loves a child. She also used him, but her main goal was to carve something out of the exile that she could never become. The reason why she knew she would have to be slain by the exile, is that the exile needed no weakness after venturing to the unknown regions, and at the moment of her death she could be truly proud of her pupil, the greatest she ever trained, and she could die knowing that her greatest has not left her, like the others did. The world of KotOR is truly amaising because of Kreia: finally we have a "not so evil" sith lord, finally we can view this world in colours, not in plain black and white! If we wern't discussing about jedi, I'd just say, she's human too.

I was just wondering what you ppl think

First of all, the key to understanding k2 entirely lies within our perception of the force. During the games and the movies, the force was explained many times, never before as something so complex as in k2. The force is a very controversial thing. During the games it was said the force has a will of its own, and that it has three major sides: l, or d, or simply the absence of it. Of course the will of the force might compromise the free will of life (by life I mean all kind of aware life: Jedi, and simple humans as well), that means that characters, have no real choice, and this is untrue, for the games are all about your choice. To give an explanation to this, I might say, that Nietzsche

Actually as Kreia said it's all about the exile, and so are Kreia's goals. She wanted a lot of things, but I believe most of all to train someone really great, powerful and of course someone she could control. She used the exile in many ways, but her relation to the exile is one of a mother-child, and ultimatly she is proud of him/her.

Lot of interesting visions were disclosed here, and I believe we are majorly overestimating the role of Revan in the tales to come. I do not envy the ones privilaged by the duty of making KotOR III, for they will be faced with a fan base too attached to their first SW hero. Even as I played TSL I kept thinking about Revan, and his tale, but in essence that was faulty, it was not really meant to be, not at such a degree anyway. This is due only to the excellence of BioWare, they made a game, where any player could easily get attached to their alter ego. Revan's faith should be concluded in k3, but it will be a difficult job to do, and furthermore it will take away from the new pc's importance. The way I see it, the fans of the original tend to make a tragic hero out of Revan, and I believe this process is unjust, and faulty at its roots. I detailed before: Revan had no intention of taking the war to the True Sith before his capture by the Jedi. He was driven by the same clich

First of all, facts must not be denied. It is an illusion to think Revan had a greater plan, a plan to battle the True Sith (back before KotOR 1, after the Mandalorian war). If he truly intended so, then afterwards ( if played DS ) why would he have left the Star Forge behind, when leaving to the unknown regions? Many speculated the Star Forge was used only to build up an army capable of taking the war to the True Sith...bogus! Revan was, like many others, power hungry, he wanted to rule the galaxy. I believe many have the urge to create a tragic hero out of him, but the truth is, he was just a vicitm of causality. Cause: the Republic was in need, he was capable...Effect: he decided to go to war with the Mandalorians. Cause: his decision...Effect: Republic wins war, thus survives; Revan "falls". If I haven't convinced you (yet) please read my post here http://forums.obsidianent.com/index.php?sh...pic=29416&st=60 It is hard to tell what my whishes concerning Revan's path would be, because they are already constrained by certain facts previously disclosed. I, like I believe most players, would most definelty want a sentimental closure to his story ( him being my first avatar in the SW galaxy ), but more than that I would desire a logical ending to his path, and logic dictates Revan not to return, or never to be heard anything concrete from again. He probably found the True Sith ("the sith is a belief" - Kreia, also detailed in my previous post ), waged war, with whatever reasons, and eventually became one of them, or even if he defeated them all, broke down. Perhaps during his struggle he met with alter ego #2, perhaps they fought and lost side by side.

Time to break a trend! Maybe I didn't spend enough time in the SW universe, but the way I observed, sith lords all have names starting with consonants, maybe it's time to end that. Darth Apathy Might even work better without the Darth. The name speaks for itself, he would be much like Nihilus ( properly developed of course ).

Well considering, that Nihilus was the strongest enemy yet (should have been anyway, confronting him was 10000000000 times easier than I anticipated), the new next dark lord should be much like him...empty, but very powerful. He should be one with no emotions whatsoever, yet a power so big, he has a gravity of his own. he could be called Dynameos Tis (power in ancient greek) without Darth. And he would have the ultimate weapon, he could restart your computer every time the avatar gets close to him, this power would be called "the glitcher".

First of all, the key to understanding k2 entirely lies within our perception of the force. During the games and the movies, the force was explained many times, never before as something so complex as in k2. The force is a very controversial thing. During the games it was said the force has a will of its own, and that it has three major sides: l, or d, or simply the absence of it. Of course the will of the force might compromise the free will of life (by life I mean all kind of aware life: Jedi, and simple humans as well), that means that characters, have no real choice, and this is untrue, for the games are all about your choice. To give an explanation to this, I might say, that Nietzsche