Siorfin Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 The one major flaw in the influence system is their character traits do not reflect their alignment changes. If a character prefers that you be nice to people then they will always prefer you be nice to people even if they go completely darkside in alignment. If they prefer you be evil and oppress the weak they will always prefer that even if they go completely light. This is a major flaw in the influence system and needs to be addressed if there is another kotor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montrossx Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 The one major flaw in the influence system is their character traits do not reflect their alignment changes. If a character prefers that you be nice to people then they will always prefer you be nice to people even if they go completely darkside in alignment. If they prefer you be evil and oppress the weak they will always prefer that even if they go completely light. This is a major flaw in the influence system and needs to be addressed if there is another kotor. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> you got that right..the influence system is broken. You have to basically agree with the NPCs in order to gain influence...otehrwise influence lost and no backstory added. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sargeras Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 Influence isn't broken. It is difficult to gain, and often you must choose between Influence and your Alignment. This isn't like KOTOR where you couldn't make mistakes with regards to character interaction and Alignment decisions. This was to be expected from a game developed by some of the geniuses behind Planescape: Torment. The Dark Lord Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterNeo Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 Influence isn't broken. It is difficult to gain, and often you must choose between Influence and your Alignment. This isn't like KOTOR where you couldn't make mistakes with regards to character interaction and Alignment decisions. This was to be expected from a game developed by some of the geniuses behind Planescape: Torment. I believe he meant that the characters reactions to how you influence them are broken. Not necessarily how its earned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siorfin Posted December 15, 2004 Author Share Posted December 15, 2004 I think he was referring to the guy who replied to my original post not to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montrossx Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 I meant what I said..it is broken. But it is true that how could something be broken that did not work in the first place. This is a _role playing game_. If you play the Jedi on the side of the Light, your peace and inherent good should influence the people following you in a like fashion, especially once you find out more about who you are in this game. But that is not the case. To influence a party member you have to answer the conversations like you think they would want you to...it does not matter if you want to help out the embattled leader because you will lose influence with a ceertain party member if you choose to do the right thing. YOU, playing the role of the beacon of good or the sum of all evil, are supposed to influence your party. In this game you do not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROFLTUNASANDWHICH Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 you're right, in a way they are influencing you. forcing you to agree with them and see things they're way. the only one who should be doing that is kreia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stargate: 2000 Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 From what I have heard described about the influence thing in the game (since I don't have the game yet I am going off of what I have read on these boards) and they should have included a way to Lie to the Party NPCs or in other words manipulate them to do your bidding. I think it was the wrong choice for them to make it so that you would have to always agree with the NPC in order to get their trust. On a side note (please put it in spoiler tags should anyone decide to answer since some might call this spoiler info, or PM me) is there anyway to acctually loose NPCs in the game, like say you loose way to much influence with them, then do they suddenly decide to leave the party because your not helping them or do they just shut up when you go to talk to them? "The only difference between genius and stupidity is genius has its limits!" - Albert Einstein. "It's better to be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt!" "You can try to kill me, you'd fail!, but you can try!" - Revan. "When you have exhausted all other possibilities whatever remains, however improbable must be the truth." - Sherlock Holmes (a.k.a. Sir Arthur Conan Dole) "A lack of planning on your part, does not constitute an emergency on my part" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnderAndrew Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 I think there is a valid point here. The more influence you have on a person, the easier it should be to gain more influence. Once they shift their alignment towards yours, your natural inclinations should resonate with them since they agree with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kefka Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 Can someone clarify this please? I keep hearing that influence is flawed and then others reply saying it's fine. It can't be both. But what's the point of influence if the NPCs don't change to reflect their new alignment? If a character acts the same even though they've gone from light to dark, doesn't that mean the system is broken? For example, if you could turn Carth to the darkside would you be happy if he still whines at every evil act you do? I think it was the wrong choice for them to make it so that you would have to always agree with the NPC in order to get their trust. I agree. I thought the whole point of influence was so you could corrupt them to the darkside or guide them back to the light. It sounds like each NPC has a predetermined alignment and it's simply your job to help them reach that by saying/doing what they want. Very disappointing if true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROFLTUNASANDWHICH Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 sadly thats exactly how it is. it wouldnt be so bad if they added [presuade/lie] to some of your choices so it would atleast look like you are manipulating them, unfortunately, it does not. and they will still act like they are the second coming of christ if you have converted them 100% to the darkside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabahattin Dere Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 How is it any different from Kotor 1 then, except for the fact that the NPC's alignments keep fluctuating? Zwangvolle Plage! M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drcloak Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 I'm playing it for the second time now, this time as a Light Sider. After 70 hours + of total gameplay, I've come to the conclusion that influence is indeed flawed. The main problem I see is that alighnment (Light vs. Dark) is tied in with influence. They should be separated more. The funniest thing happened with a certain NPC. I lost so much influence with this NPC as a Dark Sider that he/she stopped talking to me altogether. Then at a key moment in the game, the NPC professed their love to me. Then immediately after this cutscene I try 'Dialogue' and the NPC is still cold/callous towards me ROFL!! - dr cloak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icon Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 Let me see if I've got this right. You gain influence over a certain female in the game by doing acts of charity and kindness. I f you go dark and drag her along with you she still wants you be nice? Thats certainly a flaw if true. It sounds like a lack of dialogue was put in, only enough to reflect the npc's initial attitude and not an alignment reversal. Something easily correctable in K3, or better yet, as a downloadable patch for us PC users... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drcloak Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 Here is what I think should be possible: For example, lets say you're a pure Dark Sider. You should be able to successfully influence a Light Sider in your group, without gaining a Light Side shift. This happened to me all the time, and I hated it, because if I took the Light Side shift, I'd lose my Mastery and the Mastery bonus. - dr cloak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarethCarrots Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 so as sum1 huse not played the game, is it worth it for me to try 100% with influence or would i be better off just using it when it fits in with my alignment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drcloak Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 so as sum1 huse not played the game, is it worth it for me to try 100% with influence or would i be better off just using it when it fits in with my alignment <{POST_SNAPBACK}> If you haven't played the game yet, my advice to you would be to say away from these forums lol. Just get the game, play it, and have fun. You can't do everything in this game from one play through. My first time through, I didn't care about influence. I only cared that once I achieved Dark Side Mastery, I stayed there no matter what. - dr cloak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostofAnakin Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 This looks a bit disappointing if the influence does in fact work this way. It sounds like if the NPC is a "good" person, they'll always expect you to do the "good" thing, even if they themself are completely DS on their Light/Dark meter. <_< "Console exclusive is such a harsh word." - Darque"Console exclusive is two words Darque." - Nartwak (in response to Darque's observation) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightcleaver Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 In real life, though, if someone worships you, it's not so much they lose their own sense of right and wrong, as they think your will fits that sense of right and wrong. It's not perfect, but it's better than what Fable does, anyway. It's also an interesting way of doing things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostofAnakin Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 But what's the point of turning someone to the DS if they're still going to be upset if you torture that innocent farmer for information? "Console exclusive is such a harsh word." - Darque"Console exclusive is two words Darque." - Nartwak (in response to Darque's observation) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drcloak Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 But what's the point of turning someone to the DS if they're still going to be upset if you torture that innocent farmer for information? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Exactly! There is no point. - dr cloak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kumquatq3 Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 sadly thats exactly how it is. it wouldnt be so bad if they added [presuade/lie] to some of your choices so it would atleast look like you are manipulating them, unfortunately, it does not. and they will still act like they are the second coming of christ if you have converted them 100% to the darkside. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I've mostly stayed away from the forums for fear of spoilers, but I saw this thread on the main boards the other day and have been following it, and I feel the need to comment. If all this is the case, then it is a ridiculously poor oversight and I can only hope it is modified for the PC version. Considering the devs were pushing the new NPC interaction as the new "thing" in K2, I am shocked and dissapointed to hear how apparently trivial it is. It's K1, except some NPCs will help you less due to your actions. Amazing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volourn Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 This is definitely a flaw. Those whoa re complaining about KOTOR; first off it wans't so easy to turn someone in that game. And, like with Batista; when she goes DS she acts it.. Like oner person points out, it seems the PC is the puppet in KOTOR2 while the npcs are the Puppet Masters since you basically have to kiss thier behinds. It seems to me, they are the ones with influence over your behaviour. R00fles! DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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