CommunityPatch - AntiCheese

[MaxQuest]

Long time no see

For quite some time I was thinking about an update to CommunityPatch and also a new optional module named: AntiCheese

I wasn't active on the forums as I may wished for the last couple of years. That was due to lasting health issues and irl stuff. I am feeling better now, and am thinking of releasing CommunityPatch update and this new module in the upcoming weeks.

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Regarding CP v3.0 update there will be a separate thread. While this one will be dedicated to CP.AntiCheese

And speaking of it, I was highly inspired by Balance Polishing Mod, so you will see a lot of credits going to @Elric Galad

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The list of currently implemented changes is:

Cipher:

• Soul Blade: +10 MaxFocus (gained on kill with melee weapon) will now have a stack limit of 10 (instead of unlimited). This effect will also be cleared on Rest and on Death.
• Soul Blade: +1 Concentration (gained on kill with melee weapon) will now have a stack limit of 5 (instead of unlimited). This effect will also be cleared on Rest and on Death.

Chanter:

• Each Kill Fed His Fury: +stats effect will be cleared on Rest and on Combat End

Druid:

• Avenging Storm: Effect now applies on "OnDealsDamage" event with weapon attack, insted of "OnScoringGrazeHitOrCriticalHit" with weapon attack. Sync with CP.Basic.
• Avenging Storm: bonus shock proc will no longer be able to crit. But the spell cast/recovery times are decreased from 4.5s/3.0s to 3.0s/0s. And same for Scroll of Avenging Storm and Heaven's Cacophony helmet.

Fighter:

• Unbending: reworked implementation of self-healing (reason: it was healing for way more than it was supposed to)

             - what it was supposed to do (according to description): 25% of Damage Taken converted into Healing (Self) for 15.0 sec

             - what it was doing: for the duration of those 15s, every time fighter would take damage, a 5s ApplyOverTime HoT (Healing over Time) effect. At 10 MIG, 10 INT and no PL bonuses it would heal for 15% at 3s and 10% at 5s. But due to vanilla implementation of ApplyOverTime it would also heal an extra tick at 0s for 15%. Plus everytime a new HoT would be applied, all other Unbending HoTs on fighter would heal for 1 tick. So depending on situation, fighters would get healed for 40-100+% of damage taken

             - how it will work now: when taking an instance of damage, fighter will get healed for 11% of damage taken 3 times: after 2s (fixed), 4s (fixed) and 6s (fixed). Total 33%. That is both a buff (compared to dev's intention of 25%); and a nerf (compared to dev's implementation of 40-100+%)

  

• Unbending Shield: same rework as with Unbending. Total healing received upon taking 1 damage instance will now be: 3 * 11% (at 2s, 4s and 6s from taking damage)
• Unbending Trunk: same rework as with Unbending. Total healing received upon taking 1 damage instance will now be: 3 * 15% (at 2s, 4s and 6s from taking damage)

Monk:

• Resonant Touch now has a limit of 25 stacks. You will have to release existing stacks in order to build them up again. (same as in CP:Extra)
• Whispers of the Wind: when used will grant a 1s (fixed time) immunity vs reflex and powder burns attacks
• Whispers of the Wind: when used will increase the cost of Whispers of the Wind by +2 wounds for 6s (fixed duration). This cost increase stacks 2 times. 

Paladin:

• Brand Enemy: DoT duration decreased from Infinite to 120s. But damage increased from 4 Burn per 3.0s to 5 Burn per 3.0s. Additionally, DoT's duration will be extended by 5s, every time the target takes damage from melee weapon attacks.
• Lay on Hands (Shieldbearer): does no longer provide a 4s buff preventing death. Instead: for 5s, if the allied target becomes Near Death, a 150pts damage shield is applied for 5s (credit goes to Elric Galad)

Priest:

• Barring Death Door: does no longer provide an effect preventing death. Instead: the next time (no time limit for this part) the target becomes Near Death, a 300 pts damage shield is applied for 12s (the effect is less strong, but is longer and can be cast preventively). (credit goes to Elric Galad)
• Salvation of Time: does no longer increase duration of beneficial effects on target by flat 10s. Instead: it halves the ellapsing speed of buffs for 24s fixed (not benefitting from INT and PL)

Basically adds up to 12s to effect' durations but:
- Now also applies to effects cast after it (especially useful for Vanishing Strikes...)
- Useless to cast several times in a row
- The most important: now a single effect cannot have it's duration more than doubled
- It is still a very good spell, even better than before, but it is now impossible to abuse by combining it with Brilliant and the like; and all other buffs will also have to be re-cast again at some point
(credit goes to Elric Galad)

Rogue:

• Gouging Strike: DoT duration decreased from Infinite to 120s. DoT's duration will be extended by 5s, every time the target takes damage from melee weapon attacks.

Wizard:

• Wall of Draining: AffectedTargetType changed from All to Hostile (that's mostly visual effect) (credit goes to ElricGalad)
• Wall of Draining: instead of draining 1s and extending buffs on self by 1s per tick; wall will now drain 2s from enemy, and extend buffs on self by 0.5s per tick (per affected enemy). (same as in BalancePolishingMod)
• Wall of Draining: application prerequisite changed from [HasBeneficialEffectWithDuration GreaterThan 0s] to {[HasBeneficialEffectWithDuration GreaterThan 1s] AND [HasBeneficialEffectWithDuration LessThan 9999s]}. Reason: it was trying to drain from some infinite effects
• Minor Grimoire Imprint: removed this spell from grimoires. And substituted with Ironskin or Minor Arcane Reflection. Reason: the stolen spells would not expire, if gained by casting Minor Grimoire Imprint from a grimoire and switching to another grimoire
• Major Grimoire Imprint: removed this spell from grimoires. And substituted with Wilting Wind or Minoletta's Piercing Sigil. Reason: same as above
• Concelhauts Draining Touch: removed this spell from grimoires. And substituted with Noxius Burst, Arcane Dampener or Minolleta's Bounding Missiles. Reason: same as above

General:

• Brilliant: Now only restores spell Slot up to Tier 3/6/9 for Priests, Wizards and Druids. The maximum regenerated tier is cycling : Tier 3 after 3s, Tier 6 ater 9s, Tier 9 after 15s and so on until the end of the effect. Brilliant does not restore ressource anymore before 3s for all classes. (credit goes to Elric Galad for implementation)
• Dawnstar Blessing: changed from +50% Healing Given, to +55% which decreases by 5% for every character level past lvl 4 until it reaches +15% at lvl 12; and it remains +15% after that. It will still be cleared upon Rest.
• Powder Burns (blunderbuss modal): will no longer fire twice when used with mortars. (credit goes to Elric Galad)

Items:

  - Boltcatchers: Storm Blows proc will no longer be able to crit. Proc damage increased from 10-15 to 15-25 to compensate for the nerf.

  - Deltro's Cage Helm:
    - Conduit will no longer proc out of combat
    - Conduit effect will be cleared on Rest and on Combat End
    - The helm will now passively grant +1 Perception, to slightly compensate for the nerf

  - Lover's Embrace: True Love's Kiss DoT duration decreased from Infinite to 120s. But damage increased from 10 Raw per 6.0s to 12 Raw per 6.0s
  
  - Magnificent Escape Cloak: bonus Deflection and immunity to Engagement effects will now be cleared on Rest and on Combat End
  
  - Potion of Final Stand:
    - duration changed from 6s to 18s Unadjusted (meaning it cannot be extended by player stats)
    - both effects ("cannot die" and "+25% bonus damage") will be also cleared on Rest and on Combat End
    - a character can use it only once per encounter

  - Protective Eothasian Charm: Darkest Before Dawn will now provide increased damage reduction (-30% damage taken, up from -25%), but it's effects will be cleared on Rest and on Combat End

  - Rakhan Field Boots: No Quarter can be used only on hostile targets now (as in CP.Extra). They also can no longer target self.

  - Shroud of the Phantasm: Mind Over Matter can trigger only from hostile attacks now (as in CP.Extra)
  - Shroud of the Phantasm: Mind Over Matter effect will now be cleared on Rest and on Combat End. But the proc chance increased from 1% to 1.5%
    TODO: can only trigger in combat
 
 
Weapons:

  - Lethandra's Devotion: Pale Light will no longer provide any healing during first 3s after equipping the shield. Reason: it could be abused using behaviour scripts to rapidly heal the whole party.
  - Sasha's Singing Scimitar: Prelude and it's upgrades will no longer cumulatively decrease remaining recovery times on repeated re-equip. Reason: it could be abused using behaviour scripts to drastically decrease remaining recoveries on chanter and his party members.
  - Thundercrack: Charged Field will no longer cumulatively increase remaining recovery times on repeated re-equip. Reason: it could be abused using behaviour scripts and halt enemies actions for indefinite period of time.
  - Hand Mortar: Blinding Smoke (disorienting attack) will not be able to crit anymore 

  - Scordeo's Edge: Double Strike will no longer trigger on hits from any source, but only on those that are originated from Scordeo's Edge itself. (for reference: its upgrades Blade Cascade and Tempest already trigger only from Scordeo's Edge attacks in vanilla) (credit goes to Elric Galad)
  - Scordeo's Edge: Blade Cascade duration type changed to "Unadjasted" (meaning it cannot be extended by player stats)
  - Scordeo's Edge: Blade Cascade application behaviour changed from "UseLongerDurationIfAlreadyApplied" to "DontApplyIfAlreadyApplied"
  - Scordeo's Edge: Blade Cascade proc effect will now be cleared on Rest and on Combat End 

  - Grave Calling: Frosted Edge bonus lash effect will now be cleared on Rest and on Combat End.
  - Grave Calling: Frozen Edge bonus lash effect will now be cleared on Rest and on Combat End.

  - Saru-Sichr: it's special DoT procs (Poison Dipped, Paralytic, Death Sentence) will not be able to crit anymore (reason: to avoid crit-chain with Swift Flurry, Heartbeat Drumming, etc) (credit goes to Elric Galad)
  - Effort: it's status effect (Hemorrhaging) will not be able to crit anymore (reason: same as above) (credit goes to Elric Galad)
  - Mohara Taga: it's status effect (Red Flag Flying) will not be able to crit anymore (reason: same as above) (credit goes to Elric Galad)
  - Sanguine: it's status effect (Weeping Wounds) will not be able to crit anymore (reason: same as above) (credit goes to Elric Galad)
  - Distraho: it's status effect (Menace) will not be able to crit anymore (reason: same as above) (credit goes to Elric Galad)
  - Wicked Beast: it's status effects (Bad Dog, Hounding) will not be able to crit anymore (reason: same as above) (credit goes to Elric Galad)
  - Ball and Chain: it's status effects (Crushing Yoke, Subjugation, Shackles) will not be able to crit anymore (reason: same as above) (credit goes to Elric Galad)

Misc:
  - Auranic Megaboss now gets back a spell slot every 12s for the duration of the fight, in order to prevent the strat via starvation (credit goes to Elric Galad)

Edited Monday at 05:38 PM by MaxQuest

[MaxQuest]

The cheese that is remaining to be addressed (or left be) is:

• quick switching of Outworn Buckler
• overtriggering of Riposte and Offensive Parry when coupled with Immunity to Disengagement attack (Gipon Prudensco, Nomad's Brigandine)
• overtriggering of Chilling Grave (Grave Calling). Especially by a Berserkerer killing Beckoner's skeletons (Ancient Brittle Bones)
• Whispers of the Wind with Mortars
• Mob Stance full-attack trigger with melee weapon in MH and ranged weapon in OH 
• perma-invis/vanish
• Blood Sacrifice with no limit
• Tactician's Brilliant triggering during invis, despite of enemies nearby

 

So first of all I wanted to ask your opinion on the following possible changes:

• make Chilling Grave trigger with 12s internal cd
• change "Immunity to Disengagement attack" from Gipon Prudensco and Nomad's Brigandine to "Immunity to Engagement"
• Whisper of the Wind to work only if melee weapons are equipped
• add some small but stacking malus to CON or HealingTaken everytime Blood Sacrifice is used. (or use Elric's nerf?)

What do you think?

 

cc @Boeroer, @Elric Galad, @Constentin Lévine, @Noqn, @thelee

Edited Monday at 05:38 PM by MaxQuest

[Boeroer]

I do think there is the danger that removing all cheesy things and balancing everything can make the game less enjoyable and more bland overall.

For example I absolutely enjoyed the Hemorrhaging+Avenging Storm cheese in a recent Fury playthrough.

I also enjoyed unlimited Resonant Touch stacks on a Mortar Monk. 

At the same time those things didn't compell me to only use them for future playthroughs - and nothing else.

So I really do believe balancing too much/removing every little cheesy option can hurt the experience - as much as overly cheesy and obviously overpowered stuff can hurt it. But that's very subjective I believe.

BUT: if it's optional and placed into a dedicated package (which you can simply turn off) I see absolutely no harm.

Players who want all cheese removed will like it - and the others (like me) don't have to use it: perfect.

Edited Saturday at 12:54 PM by Boeroer

[MaxQuest]

1 hour ago, Boeroer said:

if it's optional and placed into a dedicated package (which you can simply turn off) I see absolutely no harm.

Yeap, it will go as a separate CP module/package.

The idea is to cut the most blatant cheese and exploits, and to act like a difficulty mod of sorts, such that the game is not too easy even with Deadly Deadfire or Path of the Makers.

 

Quote

So I really do believe balancing too much/removing every little cheesy option can hurt the experience

I can agree here. Cutting small cheese can indeed be unfun and also a waste of time that could be spent on something else)

That said, the line delimiting small cheese from big and average cheese is somewhat subjective)

For example Resonant Touch:

• the meaning behind adding a cap of max 25 RT at a time is to prevent instakiling 100%->0 bosses and thus bypassing their combat phases, which is technically an exploit
• also they are still unlimited in a way, you just have to release them every 25 stacks. And 375 raw damage AoE is still plenty

Not to mention that the game  stuggles to make difference between weapon attack/hit and weapon-sourced effect attack/hit. 

That said I do agree Avenging Storm interactions are still not that blatant like quick-swithing Thundercrack pistol 20+/second with AI behaviour and basically freezing Dorudugan.

And I am very open to leave small cheese unbalanced, so long as:

• it canno't trivialize a boss fight
• it is fun
• it doesn't twart alternative builds. E.g. why (in a 5-man party run) ever take an ascendant/barb or ascendant/ranger over an ascendant/monk, which can fill your focus meter via crit-chaining. Or why invest in AR and Deflection when you have vanilla BDD+SoT+StrandOfFavor 

 

Quote

 I do think there is the danger that removing all cheesy things and balancing everything can make the game less enjoyable and more bland overall.

In that list above of already implemented changes, is there something you prefer to be left as is?

[Constentin Lévine]

8 hours ago, MaxQuest said:

perma-invis/vanish

Actually there is 2 things that are really abused (and only useful for the Ultimate), conducting the character to a +∞ power curve, in despite of the challenge, the fun and the strategy : Temporal Cocoon and Tears of saint Makawo, since their stun debuff is a separate hostile effect than the untargetable effect, which is beneficial. There are more a god mode than cheese, as you can read here :

https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/126492-temporal-cocoon-the-godlike-spell/

https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/126180-class-build-beyond-the-veil/

(ok that require SoT- strand of Favor to be effective but without these possibility, SoT is not so punitive for the gameplay)

Edited Saturday at 09:07 PM by Constentin Lévine

[Hoo]

I have an opinion about Concelhauts Draining Touch;

Instead of removing from the game, I'd like to suggest making this as a regular Summon Weapon that lasts xx seconds, with some adjusted(probably need to be nerfed) value of the each effects, such as base weapon damage. 

This weapon has similar effect with Concelhaut's Parasitic Staff, aka health draining, while the Draining Touch is 1-handed weapon, which is quite unique imo. I think nerfing the weapon damage and the debuff effect(from Weakening to Sickening) would be enough adjustment for it.

[MaxQuest]

3 hours ago, Hoo said:

Instead of removing from the game, I'd like to suggest making this as a regular Summon Weapon that lasts xx seconds, with some adjusted(probably need to be nerfed) value of the each effects, such as base weapon damage. 

The idea wasn't to remove it from the game

But to remove it from 4 grimoires that you can find in Deadfire. You can still learn it on level up.

---

The regular behaviour of Concelhauts Draining Touch is:

• you summon that oneHanded weapon
• and on next succesful attack with it: inflict weapon corrode damage, Weakened for 20s, and heal yourself for 20% of damage dealt. And the weapon despawns; it is one-hit only.
• it deals around 60% more damage compared to a sabre; but that's ok since you need time to also cast the spell first, and it costs you a tier3 spell slot

The issue was that:

• if you don't learn that spell
• but cast it from a grimoire, and switch to another grimoire (that doesn't have it), the summoned weapon will no longer despawn after the first succesfull hit (as in regular behaviour), but will last indefinitely until combat end
• meaning that it will deal more damage and provide more healing, than any other tier3 option that you have across all classes. Plus due to increased base damage it scales much better with damage bonuses (e.g. deathblows / devasting blow) than any other weapon. 

The current idea is to remove it from: 

• Grimoire_Bandit
• Grimoire_Mercenary_Wizard
• Grimoire_Lich_Concelhaut
• Grimoire_Menzzago

But unfortunately if you already got any of those grimoires, the change will not apply retro-actively. So the current workaround is kinda moot

Quote

I'd like to suggest making this as a regular Summon Weapon that lasts xx seconds, with some adjusted(probably need to be nerfed) value of the each effects, such as base weapon damage. 
...
I think nerfing the weapon damage and the debuff effect(from Weakening to Sickening) would be enough adjustment for it.

That's a complete rework of this spell/weapon.

It's ok balance wise, so long as lifesteal cannot be prolonged indefinitely. But it losses the uniqueness of this spell (it's one-hit effect)

Atm I neutral

 

-------------------

I have also tried Elric's changes from BPM:

Concelhaut Draining Touch :
<Version 1.3> Acid Keyword was added by new version of Community Patch, but a minor glitch led me to re-add it myself.
<Version 4.1.0> Does not last infinitely when switching Grimoire
<Version 4.1.0> Base damages 24-32 -> 18-24, but adds a +50% +10%/PL damages modifiers for the attack. Note : Phantoms equipped with this weapon will have their damages reduced since they won't get the damage modifier. They will still be able to attack indefinitely with it.
<Version 4.1.0> Initial Cast/Recovery time 3s/4s -> 3s/0s

But unfortunately it still lasts indefinitely when switching grimoires. It aleviates a bit the usage with Essential Phantom. But phantom stuff is closer to small cheese.

Edited Sunday at 11:04 AM by MaxQuest

[MaxQuest]

14 hours ago, Constentin Lévine said:

Actually there is 2 things that are really abused (and only useful for the Ultimate), conducting the character to a +∞ power curve, in despite of the challenge, the fun and the strategy : Temporal Cocoon and Tears of saint Makawo, since their stun debuff is a separate hostile effect than the untargetable effect, which is beneficial. There are more a god mode than cheese, as you can read here :

https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/126492-temporal-cocoon-the-godlike-spell/

https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/126180-class-build-beyond-the-veil/

(ok that require SoT- strand of Favor to be effective but without these possibility, SoT is not so punitive for the gameplay)

Whoa)

That's definitely an oversight)

Tears of Saint Makawo ability inflicts 3 status effects:

• Martyrs_Memories_EnemyDamage (x0) (isHostile: false)
• Martyrs_Memories_SE_NonTargetable  (isHostile: false)
• Martyrs_Memories_SE_PetrifiedAffliction  (isHostile: false) (i.e. is not hostile, similar to Withdraw)

But internally Martyrs_Memories_SE_PetrifiedAffliction uses the general Paralyzed_SE_Paralyzed which is Hostile. The devs have probably reused existing status effect.

While in case of Withdraw there is dedicated Withdraw_SEStunned (which is beneficial).

The solution here would be to create a friendly paralyze SE.

Edited Sunday at 11:15 AM by MaxQuest

[Elric Galad]

6 hours ago, MaxQuest said:

The idea wasn't to remove it from the game

But to remove it from 4 grimoires that you can find in Deadfire. You can still learn it on level up.

---

The regular behaviour of Concelhauts Draining Touch is:

• you summon that oneHanded weapon
• and on next succesful attack with it: inflict weapon corrode damage, Weakened for 20s, and heal yourself for 20% of damage dealt. And the weapon despawns; it is one-hit only.
• it deals around 60% more damage compared to a sabre; but that's ok since you need time to also cast the spell first, and it costs you a tier3 spell slot

The issue was that:

• if you don't learn that spell
• but cast it from a grimoire, and switch to another grimoire (that doesn't have it), the summoned weapon will no longer despawn after the first succesfull hit (as in regular behaviour), but will last indefinitely until combat end
• meaning that it will deal more damage and provide more healing, than any other tier3 option that you have across all classes. Plus due to increased base damage it scales much better with damage bonuses (e.g. deathblows / devasting blow) than any other weapon. 

The current idea is to remove it from: 

• Grimoire_Bandit
• Grimoire_Mercenary_Wizard
• Grimoire_Lich_Concelhaut
• Grimoire_Menzzago

But unfortunately if you already got any of those grimoires, the change will not apply retro-actively. So the current workaround is kinda moot

That's a complete rework of this spell/weapon.

It's ok balance wise, so long as lifesteal cannot be prolonged indefinitely. But it losses the uniqueness of this spell (it's one-hit effect)

Atm I neutral

 

-------------------

I have also tried Elric's changes from BPM:

Concelhaut Draining Touch :
<Version 1.3> Acid Keyword was added by new version of Community Patch, but a minor glitch led me to re-add it myself.
<Version 4.1.0> Does not last infinitely when switching Grimoire
<Version 4.1.0> Base damages 24-32 -> 18-24, but adds a +50% +10%/PL damages modifiers for the attack. Note : Phantoms equipped with this weapon will have their damages reduced since they won't get the damage modifier. They will still be able to attack indefinitely with it.
<Version 4.1.0> Initial Cast/Recovery time 3s/4s -> 3s/0s

But unfortunately it still lasts indefinitely when switching grimoires. It aleviates a bit the usage with Essential Phantom. But phantom stuff is closer to small cheese.

I haven't checked the rest of the thread but I'll do.

 

The funny thing is I don't remember fixing the stuff when switching grimoire. That might be related to why it doesn't work

What I did is making it a more balanced as a weapon and adding a big damages bonus that only works one time on the caster, and does not stay when switching grimoire. Maybe the weakened effect don't stay either. I don't remember but I'll tell you ASAP.

Basically, I'm just warning you that my wording in the mod notes might be inacurate but I remember it was working quite ok.

I will check later as for the rest.

Edited Sunday at 05:43 PM by Elric Galad

[Kaylon]

For me a nerf to stop the SoT/WoD abuse and make buffs work only in combat is more than enough. Nerfing also the buffs on top of that alters too much the gameplay.

For infinite DOTs I think a better solution is to have their duration extended as long as the afflicted enemy has a member of your party/allies in sight (something similar to Scales of Justice).

I'm fine with a Resonant Touch cap, but I prefer the stack to blow itself once it reaches a certain amount instead of having to track how much an enemy has.

I believe Boltcatchers crits can't trigger Heartbeat Drumming and I don't see the reason for a nerf (in fact all procs from accessoires/armors rather need a buff and be treated like spells or weapon procs)

[Chaospread]

On 3/1/2025 at 1:06 PM, MaxQuest said:

Mohara Taga (Red Flag Flying): it's status effect (Hemorrhaging) will not be able to crit anymore (reason: same as above) (credit goes to Elric Galad)

Typo. You mean:
Mohorā Tanga: it's status effect (Red Flag Flying) will not be able to crit anymore (reason: same as above) (credit goes to Elric Galad)

On 3/1/2025 at 1:19 PM, MaxQuest said:

overtriggering of Chilling Grave (Grave Calling). Especially by a Berserkerer killing Beckoner's skeletons (Ancient Brittle Bones)

Does it work yet? I tried some days ago and I'm not able to trigger it killing my own skellies... but maybe it is still working on chill fog killing friendly skellies...

14 hours ago, Kaylon said:

For me a nerf to stop the SoT/WoD abuse and make buffs work only in combat is more than enough. Nerfing also the buffs on top of that alters too much the gameplay.

I agree. And also fix SoF as it is intended to behave: why nerf all items/status effect when you can make SoF sto working out of combat? The rule: at the end of combat all non-permament/transient effects vanish, i.e. their clock is put to 0 sec.

14 hours ago, Kaylon said:

I'm fine with a Resonant Touch cap, but I prefer the stack to blow itself once it reaches a certain amount instead of having to track how much an enemy has.

I like also this one

[thelee]

MaxQuest is back!

 

I wonder if there's an anti-cheese that can be made with Combusting Wounds. Used normally it's a pretty good spell, but used in a synergistic party it's abusive, for the same reason as Unbending - every new damage roll procs damage from the entire stack when the DoT gets a new stack. Maybe a max stack count (10?) - would not affect casual use and would still allow for some synergies, but not quite the "melting bullet sponges very rapidly" territory. Bleeding Cut may need a similar treatment, though in my mind it's only really an issue when paired with Scordeo's Edge (which is already being nerfed).

[NotDumbEnough]

Been a while since I last played, but I think Ciphers shouldn't gain focus from abilities tied to unique weapons. The blast from Kitchen Sink (can't remember its name?) kind of just trivializes Ascendant gameplay since you basically start every fight with full focus.

Another two interactions that straddle the line between cheese and just questionable balance. The first is dropping duration-based AoE spells from stealth before a fight (e.g. Chill Fog), so that enemies aggro by walking into it, and you essentially get that spell cast for free. If you have multiple spellcasters in the party you can deal ludicrous amounts of damage up-front for free. The second is that purely friendly buffs that don't target enemies don't break stealth even if cast in combat. e.g. Priest's Prayer/Litany spells. A stealth priest who skips most of the recovery time of their spells is probably not what the developers intended, and very powerful.

[MaxQuest]

On 3/2/2025 at 7:35 PM, Elric Galad said:

What I did is making it a more balanced as a weapon and adding a big damages bonus that only works one time on the caster, and does not stay when switching grimoire.

Aa, you made the 1.5 damage multiplier to go away when you switch the from grimoire with Concelhaut's Draining Touch to another grimoire?

But how? I would expect that damage multiplier to be added to those 4 grimoires. But you have added it to Concelhauts_Draining_Touch_MeleeCast.

Also: if the wizard has learnt that spell on level and has a grimoire with it, how does it play out after he switches the grimoire?

 

19 hours ago, Kaylon said:

For me a nerf to stop the SoT/WoD abuse and make buffs work only in combat is more than enough. Nerfing also the buffs on top of that alters too much the gameplay.

When you say buffs, you mean: BDD, Brilliant, Dawnstar Blessing, Avenging Storm and Unbending?

If yes, which do you think should retain vanilla behaviour and cannot be cheesed?

 

19 hours ago, Kaylon said:

For infinite DOTs I think a better solution is to have their duration extended as long as the afflicted enemy has a member of your party/allies in sight (something similar to Scales of Justice).

I am not sure yet if line-of-sight checks are implementable. It could take some time to investigate. But I wouldn't be surprised if such checkes could end up being workarounded via Martyr's Memories, path blocking or something else not taken into consideration.

Re Scales of Justice: the idea of prolonging those effects when affected creature deals damage (instead of taking damage from melee weapon attacks) is an interesting one. But this way it can be prolonged indefinitely by chanter's skeleton chant. Or if the enemy deals some modest AoE, just sit in it in invis (if you have enough regen)

 

19 hours ago, Kaylon said:

I'm fine with a Resonant Touch cap, but I prefer the stack to blow itself once it reaches a certain amount instead of having to track how much an enemy has.

That's a good suggestion. I will take a look if this is implementable.

If someone knows how to trigger clear attack once MaxStackQuantity reaches 25 stacks that would be great.

 

19 hours ago, Kaylon said:

I believe Boltcatchers crits can't trigger Heartbeat Drumming and I don't see the reason for a nerf (in fact all procs from accessoires/armors rather need a buff and be treated like spells or weapon procs)

I vaguely remember some posts by Boeroer and Constentine Levine about Boltcatchers, and had the impresion they either could trigger HD and Swift Flurry (since it's proc is not just damage dealt via StatusEffect, but via AttackMeleeGameData); or because there were a lot of hits Boltcatchers proc could have a high chance to also crit, and contribute to some other onCrit effects.

Btw, if it doesn't trigger HD and Swift Flurry, what I did is not a nerf, but a straight buff, since I've raised the base damage from 10-15 to 15-25. And that's a +60% damage increase

-----

I do agree that many accessoires/armors procs were overnerfed in early patches, when game felt somewhat easy, so everything got a nerf hammer.

 

4 hours ago, Chaospread said:

Typo. You mean:
Mohorā Tanga: it's status effect (Red Flag Flying) will not be able to crit anymore (reason: same as above) (credit goes to Elric Galad)

Thank you)

Corrected

 

4 hours ago, Chaospread said:

Does it work yet? I tried some days ago and I'm not able to trigger it killing my own skellies... but maybe it is still working on chill fog killing friendly skellies...

It does

I have created a Belower and Berserker

Belower summons 6 skellies. Berserker frenzies, hits the target and kills all skelies with Carnage. Bam you have 6 Chill Fogs.

These Chill Fogs have "weapon source" and benefit from weapon quality enchantment; and can also summon new Chill Fogs if they kill any vessels.

Plus iirc Chill Fog applications are considered weapon hits and I wouldn't get surprised if those could trigger Blade Cascade if you dual-wield with Scordeo's Edge. Or other weapons with onHit effects.

 

4 hours ago, Chaospread said:

And also fix SoF as it is intended to behave: why nerf all items/status effect when you can make SoF sto working out of combat? The rule: at the end of combat all non-permament/transient effects vanish, i.e. their clock is put to 0 sec.

Can make SoF work only in combat. Although would need to think if it is possible to start-and-reset combat in quick sequence. If it is, then setting it to combatOnly would not be enough.

Btw, when you say "why nerf all items/status effect", could you list top 5 which you would want to retain the vanilla behaviour, and are not cheesable (after SoT/WoD are taken care of)?

[MaxQuest]

3 hours ago, thelee said:

MaxQuest is back!

3 hours ago, thelee said:

I wonder if there's an anti-cheese that can be made with Combusting Wounds. Used normally it's a pretty good spell, but used in a synergistic party it's abusive, for the same reason as Unbending - every new damage roll procs damage from the entire stack when the DoT gets a new stack. Maybe a max stack count (10?) - would not affect casual use and would still allow for some synergies, but not quite the "melting bullet sponges very rapidly" territory. Bleeding Cut may need a similar treatment, though in my mind it's only really an issue when paired with Scordeo's Edge (which is already being nerfed).

 

Re Combusting Wounds: is Elric's treatment not enough?

Combusting Wounds :
<Version 4.0> changed from 4 damages over 6s (+2 damages for initial tick) to 5 damages over 5s (+1 damage for initial tick).
Ticks every 3s -> Ticks every 1s.
The intended effect is that re-application of the burning effect will only cause 1 damage per active stack instead of 2 (and stacks last slightly less so there should be less stacks). This caused this spell to do too much damages when target was attacked in quick succession.

Alternatively could do the same I did with Unbending. Have 3 delayed effects, instead of DoT. No extra 0s procs guaranteed.

 

3 hours ago, NotDumbEnough said:

Been a while since I last played, but I think Ciphers shouldn't gain focus from abilities tied to unique weapons. The blast from Kitchen Sink (can't remember its name?) kind of just trivializes Ascendant gameplay since you basically start every fight with full focus.

It's even worse with Wilting Wind from Amira's Wing)

The way these spell procs are implemented make them considered as weapon sourced. And here is little we can do. Maybe some workaround with disabling focus gain and re-enabling after 1s. But that timer is not reliable. And there could be some regresion issue.

If someone has some suggestions and they are implementable, I am open to hear them.

 

3 hours ago, NotDumbEnough said:

Another two interactions that straddle the line between cheese and just questionable balance. The first is dropping duration-based AoE spells from stealth before a fight (e.g. Chill Fog), so that enemies aggro by walking into it, and you essentially get that spell cast for free. If you have multiple spellcasters in the party you can deal ludicrous amounts of damage up-front for free. 

Indeed. Dropping Shinning Beacon out of combat is one thing (since it will start combat). But dropping those AoEs that persist over some area (and luring enemies there) is another thing (since it can result in resource economy and especially stacking).

I am ok with lasting pulsedAoEs to be made castable from combat only. Or maybe only damage dealing ones?

Would be great to hear more opinions on this.

For reference: AttackPulsedAOE that already are combatOnly:

• Sacred Immolation
• Repulsive Vissage
• Returning Storm
• Moonwell
• Consecrated Grounds
• Symbol_Of_Berath
• Symbol_Of_Eothas
• Symbol_Of_Skaen
• Symbol_Of_Wael
• Blessing_Of_Wael

And AttackPulsedAOE that atm can be cast out of combat:

• Chill Fog
• Tanglefoot
• Wicked Briars
• Venomblood
• Symbol_Of_Magran
• Revenge_Of_Skaen
• Slicken
• Malignant_Cloud
• Ninagauths_Freezing_Pillar
• Pull_of_Eora

 

Probably stacking of Symbol_Of_Magran, Revenge_Of_Skaen and Chill Fog are the biggest offenders here. Due to longer duration you can stack more of them out of combat.

 

3 hours ago, NotDumbEnough said:

The second is that purely friendly buffs that don't target enemies don't break stealth even if cast in combat. e.g. Priest's Prayer/Litany spells. A stealth priest who skips most of the recovery time of their spells is probably not what the developers intended, and very powerful.

I like that friendly buffs don't break Invisibility. But having -80% recovery from stealth (for a long period) is kinda too good.

Partially it is countered by the fact that investing in Stealth makes you miss on Alchemy/Arcana/Athletics. But still..

 

Ideally I would make "-80% recovery while stealthed" only last first 6s of combat. But will need to see if it is implementable

Edited Monday at 08:15 PM by MaxQuest

[MaxQuest]

Holy molly.

Double post.

The forum was showing that I have to wait 1 minute before submitting next post. But yet it got submitted

Edited Monday at 06:56 PM by MaxQuest

[MaxQuest]

- same as above -

(mods, delete please these double posts if you stumple upon them)

Edited Monday at 06:57 PM by MaxQuest

[thelee]

2 hours ago, MaxQuest said:

Re Combusting Wounds: is Elric's treatment not enough?

I seemed to recall that Elric had a fix for it, but didn't see it mentioned in your post (I could have missed it, sorry if I did) so wanted to bring it up. 

Personally - eh... I haven't played with Elric's fix, but in my gut going from 2 to 1 damage doesn't seem like a significant enough change. an Unbending-like change might be quite good though.

[Constentin Lévine]

2 hours ago, MaxQuest said:

Can make SoF work only in combat. Although would need to think if it is possible to start-and-reset combat in quick sequence. If it is, then setting it to combatOnly would not be enough.

Actually you can do this exploit when you charm an ally (combat) , then switch his weapon to Modwyr (combat clear) and restart the "manip" again and again -- but it is reaaally teadious. 

[Kaylon]

3 hours ago, MaxQuest said:

When you say buffs, you mean: BDD, Brilliant, Dawnstar Blessing, Avenging Storm and Unbending?

If yes, which do you think should retain vanilla behaviour and cannot be cheesed?

Frankly, I wouldn't change any. BDD is unbalanced only in hard long fights if you can keep it forever, but if you can't prolong it for the entire encounter it will make little difference in the end. Dawnstar's Blessing I really don't understand why you want to change it, I don't see how it breaks the game. Avenging Storm isn't that common and I think there are other abilities/spells at least as good. As for Unbending, it's comparable to BDD - it's good but if it can be used only for limited time it won't make a big difference in the end.

 

3 hours ago, MaxQuest said:

I vaguely remember some posts by Boeroer and Constentine Levine about Boltcatchers, and had the impresion they either could trigger HD and Swift Flurry (since it's proc is not just damage dealt via StatusEffect, but via AttackMeleeGameData); or because there were a lot of hits Boltcatchers proc could have a high chance to also crit, and contribute to some other onCrit effects.

Btw, if it doesn't trigger HD and Swift Flurry, what I did is not a nerf, but a straight buff, since I've raised the base damage from 10-15 to 15-25. And that's a +60% damage increase

-----

I do agree that many accessoires/armors procs were overnerfed in early patches, when game felt somewhat easy, so everything got a nerf hammer.

 

If I remember well it was due to other "melee" effects looping and triggering the proc from Boltcatchers. The problem with the procs from accessories/armors is their penetration at end game, especially on PotD. Melee crit builds (high accuracy/hit to crit) can trigger rather often crits from Boltcatchers too which makes them a little more viable (because it helps also their penetration), while with your change you will do 25% dmg vs almost all high level enemies. In other words a penetration increase would have been probably a better buff overall than a simple damage increase.

Yes, many accessories were badly overnerfed, but that was not my point. I think there are some interactions that make the game interesting and it bothers me that in an attempt to make the game "fair", sometimes we forget the fun. Here's an example - the trick with Grave Calling looks great on paper but in practice it's very hard to use effectively - using a berserker makes the Chillfogs damage your party too, you can't control very well the number of procs and the game crashes/freezes all the time. If you don't use a berserker then you have to kill every skelly by yourself which in the long run becomes rather tedious and counter productive; in other words it hardly makes a difference in the big picture and personally I consider it very difficult to abuse - but if some people want to put the time and effort to make it work I would say let them enjoy it. Hehe... On the other hand, weapons that proc melee hits with spells is obviously not intended and it should probably be fixed, however for some people it can be fun and maybe it can be treated like a feature - just remove the loops and make the procs break stealth/invisibility.

[thelee]

i think i agree with kaylon in general broad strokes. it might be worth just having a SoT/WoD/SoF nerf on its own and let it simmer for a while. I don't think we've done that before, incl with Elric's stuff. Nerfing indefinite buffs might do a lot to rein in the extreme cheese. It's true that something like Unbending can be powerful w/out indefinite duration extension, but something like that is actually symmetrical with enemies, whereas enemies are incapable of abusing Brilliant or SoT/WoD/SoF.

Beyond that, while balance is an admirable goal, there should still be opportunities to find interesting interactions for power, and it may be without indefinite durations the really powerful interactions aren't really that powerful. BDD with 2x duration from a nerfed Salvation of Time would be situationally good, but no longer the centerpiece for Ultimate runs, for example.

[Chaospread]

14 hours ago, MaxQuest said:

20 hours ago, Chaospread said:

Does it work yet? I tried some days ago and I'm not able to trigger it killing my own skellies... but maybe it is still working on chill fog killing friendly skellies...

It does

I have created a Belower and Berserker

Ok, it doesn't work with me because I'm using a beckoner/ghost heart Thanks.

Quote

Btw, when you say "why nerf all items/status effect", could you list top 5 which you would want to retain the vanilla behaviour, and are not cheesable (after SoT/WoD are taken care of)?

Maybe I don't understand correctly, but in my opinion no spell, abilities, consumables, items/weapons/armor enchantments which have a duration should keep running at the end of combat. They should be reset to ZERO when the fight is over. If it were not so, you can extend any effect with SoT (and maybe the other armor/weapon with a similar effect) and I think it is not intended.
If you mean something other, please let me know

Quote

And AttackPulsedAOE that atm can be cast out of combat:

• Chill Fog
• Tanglefoot
• Wicked Briars
• Venomblood
• Symbol_Of_Magran
• Revenge_Of_Skaen
• Slicken
• Malignant_Cloud
• Ninagauths_Freezing_Pillar
• Pull_of_Eora

My idea: no cast outside of combat OR limit one cast (or anyhow a limit stack) out of combat OR limit one cast (or anyhow a limit stack) out of combat only for 9th ( or 8th and 9th ) level priest spells (if implementable).

[Elric Galad]

On 3/1/2025 at 1:06 PM, MaxQuest said:

Long time no see

For quite some time I was thinking about an update to CommunityPatch and also a new optional module named: AntiCheese

I wasn't active on the forums as I may wished for the last couple of years. That was due to lasting health issues and irl stuff. I am feeling better now, and am thinking of releasing CommunityPatch update and this new module in the upcoming weeks.

--------------

Regarding CP v3.0 update there will be a separate thread. While this one will be dedicated to CP.AntiCheese

And speaking of it, I was highly inspired by Balance Polishing Mod, so you will see a lot of credits going to @Elric Galad

Yup, I'm reviewing it now. This is a vast subject.

I like the general intent, although I really think all cheese shall not be addressed. The type of questions I asked myself about it for my own mod were :

- Is it gamebreaking ?

- Is it a cheese or a gammechanching feature ? Unlimited duration DoT (with low damages) for example are a feature for me (though they can be indirectly gamebreaking, this is another topic)

- If a player is going to use the ability, does it feels wasted just by using it or does he require to intentionally use the ability in a "perverse" way to abuse it ? Example : Grimoire Imprint, as cheesy as it could be, almost require you to swap grimoire intentionally to break the game. The average player may just have fun using it and nothing will happen. Same for outworn buckler swapping again and again. Recasting Salavation of Time again and again on the other end, is a kind of logical combo which allow to break the game just by using way in a very intuitive way. Note this this can be a bit subjective.

- (minor) Is it fun ? (this might cause to reconsider a tweak)

- (minor) is it difficult to correct ? 

On 3/1/2025 at 1:06 PM, MaxQuest said:

--------------

The list of currently implemented changes is:

Cipher:

• Soul Blade: +10 MaxFocus (gained on kill with melee weapon) will now have a stack limit of 10 (instead of unlimited). This effect will also be cleared on Rest and on Death.
• Soul Blade: +1 Concentration (gained on kill with melee weapon) will now have a stack limit of 5 (instead of unlimited). This effect will also be cleared on Rest and on Death.

Frankly, I don't see the point. It is hard to get and hardly make you OP by using it.

On 3/1/2025 at 1:06 PM, MaxQuest said:

Chanter:

• Each Kill Fed His Fury: +stats effect will be cleared on Rest and on Combat End

Good but honnestly minor.

On 3/1/2025 at 1:06 PM, MaxQuest said:

Druid:

• Avenging Storm: Effect now applies on "OnDealsDamage" event with weapon attack, insted of "OnScoringGrazeHitOrCriticalHit" with weapon attack. Sync with CP.Basic.
• Avenging Storm: bonus shock proc will no longer be able to crit. But the spell cast/recovery times are decreased from 4.5s/3.0s to 3.0s/0s. And same for Scroll of Avenging Storm and Heaven's Cacophony helmet.

I went to the cast time reduction myself. It makes perfect sense balance wise.

On 3/1/2025 at 1:06 PM, MaxQuest said:

Fighter:

• Unbending: reworked implementation of self-healing (reason: it was healing for way more than it was supposed to)

             - what it was supposed to do (according to description): 25% of Damage Taken converted into Healing (Self) for 15.0 sec

             - what it was doing: for the duration of those 15s, every time fighter would take damage, a 5s ApplyOverTime HoT (Healing over Time) effect. At 10 MIG, 10 INT and no PL bonuses it would heal for 15% at 3s and 10% at 5s. But due to vanilla implementation of ApplyOverTime it would also heal an extra tick at 0s for 15%. Plus everytime a new HoT would be applied, all other Unbending HoTs on fighter would heal for 1 tick. So depending on situation, fighters would get healed for 40-100+% of damage taken

             - how it will work now: when taking an instance of damage, fighter will get healed for 11% of damage taken 3 times: after 2s (fixed), 4s (fixed) and 6s (fixed). Total 33%. That is both a buff (compared to dev's intention of 25%); and a nerf (compared to dev's implementation of 40-100+%)

  

• Unbending Shield: same rework as with Unbending. Total healing received upon taking 1 damage instance will now be: 3 * 11% (at 2s, 4s and 6s from taking damage)
• Unbending Trunk: same rework as with Unbending. Total healing received upon taking 1 damage instance will now be: 3 * 15% (at 2s, 4s and 6s from taking damage)

I'm actually happy with BPM implementation on this :

Unbending:
<Version 1.4.3> 
(basically)
Unbending & Unbending Shield returns a base 50% of damages taken.
Unbending Trunk returns a base to 75% of damages taken.
Health is restored over 12s (fixed) per tick of 1s

Duration was increased so you can still be killed by spike damages.

 

A fixed percentage on 3+ preprogrammed ticks could be a good alternative though.

 

I would strongly advise against a big nerf to unbending as it could be described as THE selling feature of Fighters a whole. 33% damages reduction for 2 Discipline for 15s base isn't enough IMHO.

On 3/1/2025 at 1:06 PM, MaxQuest said:

Monk:

• Resonant Touch now has a limit of 25 stacks. You will have to release existing stacks in order to build them up again. (same as in CP:Extra)

Already OK

On 3/1/2025 at 1:06 PM, MaxQuest said:

• Whispers of the Wind: when used will grant a 1s (fixed time) immunity vs reflex and powder burns attacks

OK

On 3/1/2025 at 1:06 PM, MaxQuest said:

• Whispers of the Wind: when used will increase the cost of Whispers of the Wind by +2 wounds for 6s (fixed duration). This cost increase stacks 2 times. 

A bit too complex IMHO. I just increased its cost to 7 wounds with BPM.

On 3/1/2025 at 1:06 PM, MaxQuest said:

Paladin:

• Brand Enemy: DoT duration decreased from Infinite to 120s. But damage increased from 4 Burn per 3.0s to 5 Burn per 3.0s. Additionally, DoT's duration will be extended by 5s, every time the target takes damage from melee weapon attacks.

"It's not a cheese, it's a feature." More seriously, I feel it is a bit complex. Also it changes mostly vs those pesky Megaboss. These fights are already tedious enough, having a little infinite DoT joker on your side is super satisfying. I won't change anything.

On 3/1/2025 at 1:06 PM, MaxQuest said:

• Lay on Hands (Shieldbearer): does no longer provide a 4s buff preventing death. Instead: for 5s, if the allied target becomes Near Death, a 150pts damage shield is applied for 5s (credit goes to Elric Galad)

My own stuff so  

On 3/1/2025 at 1:06 PM, MaxQuest said:

Priest:

• Barring Death Door: does no longer provide an effect preventing death. Instead: the next time (no time limit for this part) the target becomes Near Death, a 300 pts damage shield is applied for 12s (the effect is less strong, but is longer and can be cast preventively). (credit goes to Elric Galad)
• Salvation of Time: does no longer increase duration of beneficial effects on target by flat 10s. Instead: it halves the ellapsing speed of buffs for 24s fixed (not benefitting from INT and PL)

Basically adds up to 12s to effect' durations but:
- Now also applies to effects cast after it (especially useful for Vanishing Strikes...)
- Useless to cast several times in a row
- The most important: now a single effect cannot have it's duration more than doubled
- It is still a very good spell, even better than before, but it is now impossible to abuse by combining it with Brilliant and the like; and all other buffs will also have to be re-cast again at some point
(credit goes to Elric Galad)

My own stuff so  

On 3/1/2025 at 1:06 PM, MaxQuest said:

Rogue:

• Gouging Strike: DoT duration decreased from Infinite to 120s. DoT's duration will be extended by 5s, every time the target takes damage from melee weapon attacks.

Same as above.

"It's not a cheese, it's a feature." More seriously, I feel it is a bit complex. Also it changes mostly vs those pesky Megaboss. These fights are already tedious enough, having a little infinite DoT joker on your side is super satisfying. I won't change anything.

On 3/1/2025 at 1:06 PM, MaxQuest said:

Wizard:

• Wall of Draining: AffectedTargetType changed from All to Hostile (that's mostly visual effect) (credit goes to ElricGalad)

Why in the cheese package ?

On 3/1/2025 at 1:06 PM, MaxQuest said:

• Wall of Draining: instead of draining 1s and extending buffs on self by 1s per tick; wall will now drain 2s from enemy, and extend buffs on self by 0.5s per tick (per affected enemy). (same as in BalancePolishingMod)
• Wall of Draining: application prerequisite changed from [HasBeneficialEffectWithDuration GreaterThan 0s] to {[HasBeneficialEffectWithDuration GreaterThan 1s] AND [HasBeneficialEffectWithDuration LessThan 9999s]}. Reason: it was trying to drain from some infinite effects

Ohohoh. I like this new idea. But it will make it more situational and kills a lots of builds. 

Consider a better effect if you prevent the infinite duration bug. It would have to work when it works.

On 3/1/2025 at 1:06 PM, MaxQuest said:

• Minor Grimoire Imprint: removed this spell from grimoires. And substituted with Ironskin or Minor Arcane Reflection. Reason: the stolen spells would not expire, if gained by casting Minor Grimoire Imprint from a grimoire and switching to another grimoire
• Major Grimoire Imprint: removed this spell from grimoires. And substituted with Wilting Wind or Minoletta's Piercing Sigil. Reason: same as above

Annoying. I've never found a satisfying idea to deal with it.

As stated above, I think it might be considered to just ignore the issue.

Or we should find a status cleaner effect that works at the end of encounter. Encapsulating a status within a status is in my experience a good way to "cut it from the source" so adding a layer of ApplyOnApply status may enable the cleaning at the end of encounter to work properly.

On 3/1/2025 at 1:06 PM, MaxQuest said:

• Concelhauts Draining Touch: removed this spell from grimoires. And substituted with Noxius Burst, Arcane Dampener or Minolleta's Bounding Missiles. Reason: same as above

I have just reviewed my implementation.

The weapon damages have been reduced but the character gets a one time bonus that goes away with the weapon and that the phantoms don't get.

I have probably not addressed the Grimoire Swapping properly. 

I'll try to think about making my solution cleaner rather removing it from Grimoire altogether.

On 3/1/2025 at 1:06 PM, MaxQuest said:

General:

• Brilliant: Now only restores spell Slot up to Tier 3/6/9 for Priests, Wizards and Druids. The maximum regenerated tier is cycling : Tier 3 after 3s, Tier 6 ater 9s, Tier 9 after 15s and so on until the end of the effect. Brilliant does not restore ressource anymore before 3s for all classes. (credit goes to Elric Galad for implementation)

To be faire, this was YOUR Impementation initially, but it only lasted for 60s brillliant. I just made it cleaner by removing the time limit.

On 3/1/2025 at 1:06 PM, MaxQuest said:

• Dawnstar Blessing: changed from +50% Healing Given, to +55% which decreases by 5% for every character level past lvl 4 until it reaches +15% at lvl 12; and it remains +15% after that. It will still be cleared upon Rest.
• Powder Burns (blunderbuss modal): will no longer fire twice when used with mortars. (credit goes to Elric Galad)

Items:

  - Boltcatchers: Storm Blows proc will no longer be able to crit. Proc damage increased from 10-15 to 15-25 to compensate for the nerf.

  - Deltro's Cage Helm:
    - Conduit will no longer proc out of combat
    - Conduit effect will be cleared on Rest and on Combat End
    - The helm will now passively grant +1 Perception, to slightly compensate for the nerf

Overall OK

On 3/1/2025 at 1:06 PM, MaxQuest said:

  - Lover's Embrace: True Love's Kiss DoT duration decreased from Infinite to 120s. But damage increased from 10 Raw per 6.0s to 12 Raw per 6.0s

Same as other infinite DoT.

On 3/1/2025 at 1:06 PM, MaxQuest said:

  - Magnificent Escape Cloak: bonus Deflection and immunity to Engagement effects will now be cleared on Rest and on Combat End
  
  - Potion of Final Stand:
    - duration changed from 6s to 18s Unadjusted (meaning it cannot be extended by player stats)
    - both effects ("cannot die" and "+25% bonus damage") will be also cleared on Rest and on Combat End
    - a character can use it only once per encounter

  - Protective Eothasian Charm: Darkest Before Dawn will now provide increased damage reduction (-30% damage taken, up from -25%), but it's effects will be cleared on Rest and on Combat End

  - Rakhan Field Boots: No Quarter can be used only on hostile targets now (as in CP.Extra). They also can no longer target self.

  - Shroud of the Phantasm: Mind Over Matter can trigger only from hostile attacks now (as in CP.Extra)
  - Shroud of the Phantasm: Mind Over Matter effect will now be cleared on Rest and on Combat End. But the proc chance increased from 1% to 1.5%
    TODO: can only trigger in combat
 
 
Weapons:

  - Lethandra's Devotion: Pale Light will no longer provide any healing during first 3s after equipping the shield. Reason: it could be abused using behaviour scripts to rapidly heal the whole party.
  - Sasha's Singing Scimitar: Prelude and it's upgrades will no longer cumulatively decrease remaining recovery times on repeated re-equip. Reason: it could be abused using behaviour scripts to drastically decrease remaining recoveries on chanter and his party members.
  - Thundercrack: Charged Field will no longer cumulatively increase remaining recovery times on repeated re-equip. Reason: it could be abused using behaviour scripts and halt enemies actions for indefinite period of time.
  - Hand Mortar: Blinding Smoke (disorienting attack) will not be able to crit anymore 

  - Scordeo's Edge: Double Strike will no longer trigger on hits from any source, but only on those that are originated from Scordeo's Edge itself. (for reference: its upgrades Blade Cascade and Tempest already trigger only from Scordeo's Edge attacks in vanilla) (credit goes to Elric Galad)
  - Scordeo's Edge: Blade Cascade duration type changed to "Unadjasted" (meaning it cannot be extended by player stats)
  - Scordeo's Edge: Blade Cascade application behaviour changed from "UseLongerDurationIfAlreadyApplied" to "DontApplyIfAlreadyApplied"
  - Scordeo's Edge: Blade Cascade proc effect will now be cleared on Rest and on Combat End 

  - Grave Calling: Frosted Edge bonus lash effect will now be cleared on Rest and on Combat End.
  - Grave Calling: Frozen Edge bonus lash effect will now be cleared on Rest and on Combat End.

  - Saru-Sichr: it's special DoT procs (Poison Dipped, Paralytic, Death Sentence) will not be able to crit anymore (reason: to avoid crit-chain with Swift Flurry, Heartbeat Drumming, etc) (credit goes to Elric Galad)
  - Effort: it's status effect (Hemorrhaging) will not be able to crit anymore (reason: same as above) (credit goes to Elric Galad)
  - Mohara Taga: it's status effect (Red Flag Flying) will not be able to crit anymore (reason: same as above) (credit goes to Elric Galad)
  - Sanguine: it's status effect (Weeping Wounds) will not be able to crit anymore (reason: same as above) (credit goes to Elric Galad)
  - Distraho: it's status effect (Menace) will not be able to crit anymore (reason: same as above) (credit goes to Elric Galad)
  - Wicked Beast: it's status effects (Bad Dog, Hounding) will not be able to crit anymore (reason: same as above) (credit goes to Elric Galad)
  - Ball and Chain: it's status effects (Crushing Yoke, Subjugation, Shackles) will not be able to crit anymore (reason: same as above) (credit goes to Elric Galad)

OK !

On 3/1/2025 at 1:06 PM, MaxQuest said:

Misc:
  - Auranic Megaboss now gets back a spell slot every 12s for the duration of the fight, in order to prevent the strat via starvation (credit goes to Elric Galad)

Well, this was added because of the Addition of Potion of Enlightenment in BPM.
This Potion allow to get 1 ressource per 30s of combat, strenghtening the party vs Megabosses.

Other Megabosses have infinite uses of their abilities, but not Auranic. That's the reason why I buffed her to compensate.

On 3/1/2025 at 1:19 PM, MaxQuest said:

The cheese that is remaining to be addressed (or left be) is:

• quick switching of Outworn Buckler

I would have ignored since it is uber tedious to even use.

On 3/1/2025 at 1:19 PM, MaxQuest said:

• overtriggering of Riposte and Offensive Parry when coupled with Immunity to Disengagement attack (Gipon Prudensco, Nomad's Brigandine)

Change below kind of make sense

On 3/1/2025 at 1:19 PM, MaxQuest said:

• overtriggering of Chilling Grave (Grave Calling). Especially by a Berserkerer killing Beckoner's skeletons (Ancient Brittle Bones)

Change below kind of make sense. Maybe 6-10s would be enough though. 

On 3/1/2025 at 1:19 PM, MaxQuest said:

• Whispers of the Wind with Mortars

The combo is endgame and feel legit. It doesn't always work as well as in @Boeroer videos with clumped Drowned Corpses

On 3/1/2025 at 1:19 PM, MaxQuest said:

• Mob Stance full-attack trigger with melee weapon in MH and ranged weapon in OH 

This isn't really cheesy. ranged weapon (bar possibly mortars) are usually weaker than melee's.

Mortar is a minor annoyance in this case.

On 3/1/2025 at 1:19 PM, MaxQuest said:

• perma-invis/vanish

This can be indeed an issue.

On 3/1/2025 at 1:19 PM, MaxQuest said:

• Blood Sacrifice with no limit

BPM made it 3s cooldown and stop any healing for 6s fixed. Maybe you can find a better idea though.

On 3/1/2025 at 1:19 PM, MaxQuest said:

• Tactician's Brilliant triggering during invis, despite of enemies nearby

Let's see your ideas !

On 3/1/2025 at 1:19 PM, MaxQuest said:

So first of all I wanted to ask your opinion on the following possible changes:

• make Chilling Grave trigger with 12s internal cd
• change "Immunity to Disengagement attack" from Gipon Prudensco and Nomad's Brigandine to "Immunity to Engagement"
• Whisper of the Wind to work only if melee weapons are equipped

There is no way to make Heart of Fury / Clear Out / Whisper of the Wind work only with melee weapons.

The best to my knowledge is to make it like Whirling Strikes which require at least one melee weapons.

As stated above, I don't consider it a big issue, outside of very favorable conditions with mortars (cough cough pull of Eora).

On 3/1/2025 at 1:19 PM, MaxQuest said:

• add some small but stacking malus to CON or HealingTaken everytime Blood Sacrifice is used. (or use Elric's nerf?)

Could work. Not infinite duration but long ones (~120s), and stacking.

 

Edited Tuesday at 06:26 PM by Elric Galad

[Elric Galad]

16 hours ago, thelee said:

I seemed to recall that Elric had a fix for it, but didn't see it mentioned in your post (I could have missed it, sorry if I did) so wanted to bring it up. 

Personally - eh... I haven't played with Elric's fix, but in my gut going from 2 to 1 damage doesn't seem like a significant enough change. an Unbending-like change might be quite good though.

Muy change was 1s ticks instead of 3s. 1 ticks drastically reduce the "refresh by attacking" issue. 

Combusting Wounds :
<Version 4.0> changed from 4 damages over 6s (+2 damages for initial tick) to 5 damages over 5s (+1 damage for initial tick).
Ticks every 3s -> Ticks every 1s.
The intended effect is that re-application of the burning effect will only cause 1 damage per active stack instead of 2 (and stacks last slightly less so there should be less stacks). This caused this spell to do too much damages when target was attacked in quick succession. 

[Chaospread]

1 hour ago, Elric Galad said:

On 3/1/2025 at 1:06 PM, MaxQuest said:

Misc:
  - Auranic Megaboss now gets back a spell slot every 12s for the duration of the fight, in order to prevent the strat via starvation (credit goes to Elric Galad)

Well, this was added because of the Addition of Potion of Enlightenment in BPM.
This Potion allow to get 1 ressource per 30s of combat, strenghtening the party vs Megabosses.

Other Megabosses have infinite uses of their abilities, but not Auranic. That's the reason why I buffed her to compensate.

But wait, doesn't Auranic have "Endless Assault," which grants her Brilliant permanently?
Apart from this I think Potion of Enlightenment is a good think particularly in SOLO for those classes that can't have Brilliant "easily".