Pathfinder Wrath of the Righteous, Part 4

[ShadySands]

4 minutes ago, KP From Another World said:

What about deception based kinks?

You got me there

[InsaneCommander]

6 minutes ago, KP From Another World said:

While Cayden is objectively the best diety in Pathfinder (fite me irl sobriety), I wish there was more to the him in WotR than getting slipped a divine beer. At least on the Azata path, I heard there's some stuff for him in Trickster but have not confirmed.

Well, so far there was also that moment when you can drink with Seelah and the recruits in front of Irabeth. It was just a "chaotic" choice, but it also fits Caylen.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

5 minutes ago, ShadySands said:

You got me there

2 minutes ago, InsaneCommander said:

Well, so far there was also that moment when you can drink with Seelah and the recruits in front of Irabeth. It was just a "chaotic" choice, but it also fits Caylen.

It's been a while since I've played, but I remember wishing he'd have more impact on Azata given that he's the other CG god. 

[InsaneCommander]

8 minutes ago, KP From Another World said:

It's been a while since I've played, but I remember wishing he'd have more impact on Azata given that he's the other CG god. 

I'll lower my expectations.

[Gorth]

I cheated a bit and read up on the mythic paths in the game (to see what they were about and what is required). None of them look like a good fit for a CN Barbarian, I guess I'll just aim for the legend route (if I make it that far) and get another 20 levels of some class (because your level cap then increases to 40, so fill it up with 20 levels of bloodrager or whatever)

 

Lich looks like fun, but I would start a game as an evil character then (and since it replaces all your current companions, at a time where you're tired of them anyway). I just don't see myself ever playing as an angel... too much role playing required

 

Edit: In my current game, I made it to some market and found Aerie Ember. Not sure what to make of her. In the party for now, as I don't mind a straight up spell caster. Also got the dual dagger wielding thief. Found out he doubles as a vendor once you make him happy.

[Gromnir]

1 hour ago, Gorth said:

I cheated a bit and read up on the mythic paths in the game (to see what they were about and what is required). None of them look like a good fit for a CN Barbarian, I guess I'll just aim for the legend route (if I make it that far) and get another 20 levels of some class (because your level cap then increases to 40, so fill it up with 20 levels of bloodrager or whatever)

 

Lich looks like fun, but I would start a game as an evil character then (and since it replaces all your current companions, at a time where you're tired of them anyway). I just don't see myself ever playing as an angel... too much role playing required

 

Edit: In my current game, I made it to some market and found Aerie Ember. Not sure what to make of her. In the party for now, as I don't mind a straight up spell caster. Also got the dual dagger wielding thief. Found out he doubles as a vendor once you make him happy.

am hesitating to mention, but trickster is a viable option for a cn barbarian, though we likely wouldn't recommend for your first run. requires serious metagamey silliness to get the most o' trickster... both in terms o' mechanics and a few quests. trickster includes such cheese  as a full wizard spell book so as long as your intelligence is 12, and you could possible have a critical range o' 11-20 and x5 damage on your main weapon(s)... not to mention being able to insta-paralyze all foes at the start o' combat. is serious over-the-top.

legend has more than a few interesting aspects. a decent second class for a barbarian legend worth considering is sixteen levels ' o' vivisectionist... which provides you four levels to play 'round with and do whatever. get vivisectionist grand mutagen, infusions, sneak attack damage and numerous useful medical discoveries such as wings. is not too many bad ways to do legend but you do miss out on a few story aspects. also, while is more cheesy metagame nonsense, the best cloak in the game is available to the aeon mythic path, so start aeon and switch to legend (or devil) is a decent pragmatic choice, but maybe not so good for a cn barbarian. 

HA! Good Fun!

ps azata is also an obvious choice for a not-evil barbarian. the incredible might sooper power as well as life bonding friendship should provide serious benefits. 

Edited August 27, 2022 by Gromnir

[MrBrown]

Demon is a possibility too, they're chaotic. You don't have to be super evil for it, just a little bit.  And it has a rage-thingy.

Edited August 27, 2022 by MrBrown

[uuuhhii]

trickster best path

crit feat line are so simple and overpowered

[bugarup]

I found demon both mechanically underwhelming and RP-wise quite silly, because you're essentially Ragey McEdgelord who absolutely must assert dominance on everything and anything -- in other words, a teenager.

Legend I liked a lot. Reminded me a bit of the best ending of Bloodlines aka .

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

14 hours ago, Gorth said:

I cheated a bit and read up on the mythic paths in the game (to see what they were about and what is required). None of them look like a good fit for a CN Barbarian, I guess I'll just aim for the legend route (if I make it that far) and get another 20 levels of some class (because your level cap then increases to 40, so fill it up with 20 levels of bloodrager or whatever)

 

Lich looks like fun, but I would start a game as an evil character then (and since it replaces all your current companions, at a time where you're tired of them anyway). I just don't see myself ever playing as an angel... too much role playing required

 

Edit: In my current game, I made it to some market and found Aerie Ember. Not sure what to make of her. In the party for now, as I don't mind a straight up spell caster. Also got the dual dagger wielding thief. Found out he doubles as a vendor once you make him happy.

For a CN barb I think Azata is probably the best. You've got several abilities that work well with melee builds or are generally powerful combined with a super animal companion.

If you go Legend, I think Bloodrager* is a poor companion to barbarian due to overlap and rage/bloodrage being exclusive (I think). Vivisectionist is an incredible fit for any weapon based class, but really any of the other full BAB classes and rogues will probably get more mileage than the bloodrager.

*I'd argue that for all intents and purposes, the Bloodrager is a better Barbarian in virtually every aspect. You can even grab an archetype that let's you pick up barbarian rage powers.

Edited August 27, 2022 by KP From Another World

[InsaneCommander]

I love how you frequently have the dialogue option to attack and kill people.

Spoiler

That village with the glass dolls on the trees is suspicious as Hell the Abyss. Even playing as a good guy I was tempted to pick that option. Good luck to the priest who stayed there.

Leper's Smile
 

Spoiler

I hesitated in sending a companion to serve as bait for the swarms, it was obvious someone could die. But my impression was that the other npcs were even more likely to perish. I ended up choosing Sosiel, since he had a good point about healing and the others seemed to volunteer either because of pride or a martyr's complex. Nurah was the worst, does she even have a class? Not sure she could do much against the swarm with her books, considering they ate even the magical armors in the area.

Strange that Seelah didn't volunteer, but I don't need their names here to know where Camellia and Daeran stood.

In the end, I stopped only to save the hafling and lost 5% of my army. Definitely not worth the trade*, considering there were literally bodies falling from above right there while I saved him, but once I chose the perception test, I couldn't simply ignore the guy.

*Since the game informed me of the morale decrease right after saving the hafling, I assume it was because of it.

 

[Gromnir]

43 minutes ago, InsaneCommander said:

I love how you frequently have the dialogue option to attack and kill people.

  Reveal hidden contents

That village with the glass dolls on the trees is suspicious as Hell the Abyss. Even playing as a good guy I was tempted to pick that option. Good luck to the priest who stayed there.

Leper's Smile
 

  Reveal hidden contents

I hesitated in sending a companion to serve as bait for the swarms, it was obvious someone could die. But my impression was that the other npcs were even more likely to perish. I ended up choosing Sosiel, since he had a good point about healing and the others seemed to volunteer either because of pride or a martyr's complex. Nurah was the worst, does she even have a class? Not sure she could do much against the swarm with her books, considering they ate even the magical armors in the area.

Strange that Seelah didn't volunteer, but I don't need their names here to know where Camellia and Daeran stood.

In the end, I stopped only to save the hafling and lost 5% of my army. Definitely not worth the trade*, considering there were literally bodies falling from above right there while I saved him, but once I chose the perception test, I couldn't simply ignore the guy.

*Since the game informed me of the morale decrease right after saving the hafling, I assume it was because of it.

 

read at your own risk:

 

Spoiler

there is a karmic payoff for having saved the halfling, but you won't understand the actual costs and benefits until act iv.

practical reward:

Spoiler

https://pathfinderwrathoftherighteous.wiki.fextralife.com/Ashmaker 

as such, the best optional 1007 you may possible receive during the leper's smile run to the queen is possible only by saving the halfling.

 

HA! Good Fun!

ps @Gorthone o' the most op builds involves barbarian (instinctual warrior)/fighter (mutation warrior) 16/4. go trickster for serious op. however, is complete unnecessary to indulge such silliness. am not a fan o' armoured hulk or beastkin berserker, but all the other archetypes has significant upside and is hardly as if armoured hulk and beastkin berserker is too weak to handle a hard run o' wotr. unsolicited observation: many barbarian builds finish with four levels o' fighter, but again, such is hardly required.

Edited August 27, 2022 by Gromnir

[ShadySands]

4 hours ago, InsaneCommander said:

I love how you frequently have the dialogue option to attack and kill people.

[Evil] I don't like you. Die! (Attack)

I don't remember exactly how it's formatted

[InsaneCommander]

22 minutes ago, ShadySands said:

[Evil] I don't like you. Die! (Attack)

I don't remember exactly how it's formatted

Just met a suspicious guy (Crinukh) and, of course, there is the option "[Attack] You are too suspicious."

 

Spoiler

A literate Kobold that knows a lot about Demons, offers help for free and is living safely near Drezen?

And why would I come to him for pleasure?

 

[Gorth]

6 hours ago, Gromnir said:

ps @Gorthone o' the most op builds involves barbarian (instinctual warrior)/fighter (mutation warrior) 16/4. go trickster for serious op. however, is complete unnecessary to indulge such silliness. am not a fan o' armoured hulk or beastkin berserker, but all the other archetypes has significant upside and is hardly as if armoured hulk and beastkin berserker is too weak to handle a hard run o' wotr. unsolicited observation: many barbarian builds finish with four levels o' fighter, but again, such is hardly required.

I hope I didn't paint myself into any unwanted corners. I picked the "Aeon" at some point, as well as "Trickster". Iirc, at the very beginning I deliberately skipped "Angel" (thinking it was  binding option, locking me in early and leaving out other options doing so). I can't remember if it was an either or dialogue, Angel or Devil, I'll have to pay better attention next play through. Found another spell caster, an over the top archetype researcher and master of all things scrolls. Which gives me 6 companions for 5 slots. Time for them to start taking turns I suppose.

 

Also, whoever thought the tavern defense mission was a good idea is headed straight for the Abyss!

After two hours and 50+ turns, 4 party members down, I called it quits and decided to check the internet. Turns (bad pun) out it just doesn't work properly in turn based mode. Something somewhere gets stuck and boss never shows up/ So, RTS mode it was, until the boss shows up, then switch back to turn based again.

I need 3 attempts to get the tactics right. In my third attempt, besides leaving out Woljif of the fight (too squishy for mass brawls) I simply stacked on top of Irabeth and let the crusaders deal with the trash, including the arsonists until boss showed up. Also, got to love Entanglement. Not just visually impressive as a spell, but it worked wonders slowing down the cultists leaving me to fight the boss (together with half a dozen crusaders). Then mop up remaining arsonists and the fight was over. The whole fight only took 10 minutes when doing it "right" (not the only right way of course, just more right than what I previously tried). As for the spell casters, I don't think I've made up my mind yet, which one I'll find more useful in the long run. Ember is a "Sorcerer" variant and Nenio a "Wizard" variant (using legacy D&D descriptions). I did notice a guy in the tavern that will respect my character and I think he can also do something with the companions, but for now I leave the choice of paths for companions to the game.

 

@Gromnir I checked out Vivisectionist, but with Int 10, I would probably need to put more stat points in intelligence for it to make any sense? Otherwise, as mentioned above, tried to make sure I didn't lock myself out of Aeon and/or Trickster. Still aiming for Legend in my first play through though. That is, until I have to make final choices, then my Chaotic true nature probably shines through and I do something completely not planned

 

Edit: Trying to mop up a few loose ends before taking on a garrison, which is otherwise up next as doable missions.

[Gromnir]

48 minutes ago, Gorth said:

I checked out Vivisectionist, but with Int 10, I would probably need to put more stat points in intelligence for it to make any sense? Otherwise, as mentioned above, tried to make sure I didn't lock myself out of Aeon and/or Trickster. Still aiming for Legend in my first play through though. That is, until I have to make final choices, then my Chaotic true nature probably shines through and I do something completely not planned

keep in mind when you switch to legend, you are granted an immediate +4 to all attributes. there is also an intelligence boosting tome you will be able to find a bit earlier as an angel, but nevertheless before endgame if you choose a different mythic. as a legend you are leveling up 20 more times-- plenty o' attribute points. you need 16 int to cast all vivisectionist spells and none o' your spell choices is gonna be dc dependent. if you hit level 16 vivisectionist at overall level 40, then assuming you started with a 10 int, you may drop your final attribute gain into int and you are golden, yes?

with mythics, is no corner to be painted into insofar as demon or angel. however, 

Spoiler

if you didn't help out the priests o' desna in the market square o' kenabres, then azata is already beyond your reach.

the triggers for the tavern defense advancement are not always obvious.

Spoiler

defend the tavern.

kill the alchemists.

kill the minotaur.  

... 

kill the alchemists asap speeds up the successful resolution o' tavern defense.

HA! Good Fun!

Edited August 28, 2022 by Gromnir

[InsaneCommander]

54 minutes ago, Gorth said:

Also, whoever thought the tavern defense mission was a good idea is headed straight for the Abyss!

After two hours and 50+ turns, 4 party members down, I called it quits and decided to check the internet. Turns (bad pun) out it just doesn't work properly in turn based mode. Something somewhere gets stuck and boss never shows up/ So, RTS mode it was, until the boss shows up, then switch back to turn based again.

I need 3 attempts to get the tactics right.

Then I was lucky. I'm playing in real time and this was one moment I considered trying in turn based, since it looked like I had to be much more careful here. But I didn't and that saved me from this mess.

You know, your choice of tactics can change the results in insane ways. I had Nenio and Woljif spam Grease everywhere enemies were appearing and Create Pit in front of the two gates, while Ember cast Web on top of the pits. Things got really easy after that. A few enemies made it inside in the beginning, before I understood what was going on, but that was it. I sent Seelah and the main character to the rooftops and Lann alternated between the enemies there and the ones escaping from the pits just to get stuck on the Web or knocked down by Grease. Stinking Cloud helped too.

Edited August 28, 2022 by InsaneCommander

[Gorth]

I didn't know about the immediate stat gain from Legend. I'll keep that in mind

Yeah, I had only added up the numbers in my head for reaching level 40. Alternatively using the respec guy in the tavern to add a handful Int at the expense of Dex (although wearing light armour atm, I do appreciate a bit of Dex bonus for protection as well as the Mobility checks). Generally well supplied with Mage Shield spells too.

[Gorth]

1 minute ago, InsaneCommander said:

Then I was lucky. I'm playing in real time and this was one moment I considered trying in turn based, since it looked like I had to be much more careful here. That saved me from this mess.

You know, your choice of tactics can change the results in insane ways. I had Nenio and Woljif spam Grease everywhere enemies were appearing and Create Pit in front of the two gates, while Ember cast Web on top of the pits. Things got really easy after that. A few enemies made it inside in the beginning, before I understood what was going on, but that was it. I sent Seelah and the main character to the rooftops and Lann alternated between the enemies there and the ones escaping from the pits just to get stuck on the Web or knocked down by Grease. Stinking Cloud helped too.

I didn't have enough Grease to go around, but as they just kept coming, my party members started dying one after the other as minutes became real time hours. So I gave up on defending the gates and counted on them not being able to destroy 12 structures in time for them to win. Let the crusaders do the bleeding instead of my party, then make sure they arrive as a trickle of support for the boss rather than as a horde. I was breathing a literal sigh of relief when the boss showed up in my first real time attempt and I knew it was winnable. Even if it took me three tries to arrive at the tactic I ended with.

[InsaneCommander]

2 minutes ago, Gorth said:

I didn't have enough Grease to go around, but as they just kept coming, my party members started dying one after the other as minutes became real time hours. So I gave up on defending the gates and counted on them not being able to destroy 12 structures in time for them to win. Let the crusaders do the bleeding instead of my party, then make sure they arrive as a trickle of support for the boss rather than as a horde. I was breathing a literal sigh of relief when the boss showed up in my first real time attempt and I knew it was winnable. Even if it took me three tries to arrive at the tactic I ended with.

Well, that works too. Irabeth and her people can get really comfortable in front of the tavern.

[Gromnir]

49 minutes ago, Gorth said:

I didn't have enough Grease to go around, but as they just kept coming, my party members started dying one after the other as minutes became real time hours. So I gave up on defending the gates and counted on them not being able to destroy 12 structures in time for them to win. Let the crusaders do the bleeding instead of my party, then make sure they arrive as a trickle of support for the boss rather than as a horde. I was breathing a literal sigh of relief when the boss showed up in my first real time attempt and I knew it was winnable. Even if it took me three tries to arrive at the tactic I ended with.

our personal strategy is not grease dependent. that said, grease and glitterdust is arguable two o' the most effective spells in the game and both is low level. grease does help for tavern defense but is not essential.  ember may spam slumber, so she is worthy o' consideration for tavern defense, but typical we got at least three party members with animal companions which allows us to be in more hot spots at once and am able to quick kill the bomb throwing meanines. do not hesitate to kill the enemy alchemists as failure to kill 'em all is what is gonna have your turn-based efforts stretch out interminable. we have lann kill enemy archers. 

animal companions, particular animal companions capable o' trip, make a big difference for the tavern defense.

'course if you do not have animal companions...

reposting for no particular reason

the smite ability for the divine hunter's animal companion is NOT once per day. spammable. for inexplicable reasons, the velociraptor has a charisma o' 14. smillodon has 10. the rest o' the critters get 'tween 4 and 7 for charisma. your velociraptor, once lann reaches divine hunter level 3 and the velociraptor may be designated celestial or fiendish, becomes an absolute murder machine with perpetual capacity to overcome dr plus added ab and damage versus evil foes... and most wotr foes is evil.

is so many different ways to build characters and defeat difficult encounters. in spite o' insistence by many pundits that certain classes and companions is terrible, am gonna suggest such is mostly hogwash. the problem with pathfinder and wotr in particular is that in spite o' the many possible win options for building characters and companions, there is far too many bad options which initial look good on paper. is also counter-intuitive bad tactics for beating tough encounters. let the bad guys come to you for tavern defense? makes sense. bad tactics.

HA! Good Fun!

ps as we already mentioned grease and glitterdust, the main reason why both spells remain useful all game is 'cause they ignore spell resistance. use heighten metamagic to increase the effective spell level o' grease and glitterdust (thus increasing their dc) and both will remain staples from first hours o' the game until the end. (edit: selective spell metamagic, particular in the case o' grease, is also useful) is a couple curious examples o' enemy demons with wings which may nevertheless be knocked prone. go figure. 

Edited August 28, 2022 by Gromnir

[InsaneCommander]

I noticed some weaker armies in the north and I decided to level up a second general. Is that a good idea? Or do I need a single, higher level general?

My first one is level 5, the other is 3.

[Gromnir]

24 minutes ago, InsaneCommander said:

I noticed some weaker armies in the north and I decided to level up a second general. Is that a good idea? Or do I need a single, higher level general?

My first one is level 5, the other is 3.

gonna admit we only created a second general much later in the game. until act v, we only had 1 general and that were adequate and likely better as we level'd up the single general a bit faster as 'posed to spreading the xp.

setsuna shay (fire. lots of fire.) 

baroness gaunther/gunther (sp?) (maybe better for an angel character as she gets bonuses to divine spells)

hate to say this but the wotr campaign stuff is not well balanced. the mage generals is objective better, though you ain't doomed if you go a different route. choose one o' the aforementioned generals and then maybe pick up the other in act 5 would be our recommendation.

archery units are strongk. marksmen remain powerful but they used to be op. hellknights are solid early available army units choices as is clerics. 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited August 28, 2022 by Gromnir

[MrBrown]

3 hours ago, Gorth said:

I didn't know about the immediate stat gain from Legend. I'll keep that in mind

BTW, you only get Legend very late into the game. I think I was level 18 in my normal levels at that point. Most of the game will be spent on Mythic levels around 3 to 5, so you need to pick one out of Demon, Angel, Azata, Aeon, Trickster, Lich for that.

You also mentioned respeccing NPCs. You can do that, but only from the levels they've gained while in your party; they all have an amount of starting levels you can't change.

[Gorth]

22 minutes ago, MrBrown said:

BTW, you only get Legend very late into the game. I think I was level 18 in my normal levels at that point. Most of the game will be spent on Mythic levels around 3 to 5, so you need to pick one out of Demon, Angel, Azata, Aeon, Trickster, Lich for that.

You also mentioned respeccing NPCs. You can do that, but only from the levels they've gained while in your party; they all have an amount of starting levels you can't change.

That is fine I guess...

 

As for Legend additional levels, they come at a vastly reduced xp rate. No idea how that works, like do you have to max out your original 20 levels at max cost, then get the discount 20 levels at a fraction afterward etc.

Daeran throws some interesting parties. Somehow reminding me a lot of "Eyes Wide Shut"