Pathfinder Wrath of the Righteous, Part 4

[Gorth]

My curiosity got the better of me and I decided to respec a bit to try out a few different things. My barbarian is now truly living on the edge of the chaotic life, embracing the "Mad Dog" archetype, riding a (wrecker) triceratops. I remembered to put some stat points in INT for the Trickster path, but mostly just STR and CON (and the leftover in INT). Picked some nice feats like limitless rage and reckless rage (and the one that shares my rage with my team so we're all going to be raging barbarians). It was a bit of a toss up between a skald or a vivisectionist level for now (level 10). In the end, I did like the mutagen better (i.e. vivisectionist). I might try the skald later tonight and see how that pans out. Also ran into a skeleton merchant a few times as a random encounter. Bought a few nice things for the team.

[xzar_monty]

17 hours ago, Gromnir said:

gonna admit, the freaking vegetables in the dragon lair were for us a more difficult challenge than the lizard

Ha! Indeed. After dealing with the dragon and then failing with the veggies, I decided to roam elsewhere, level up a bit and only then return.

Btw, I wonder how many people can manage the dragon on, let's say, Core, in case they fail the scripted checks before the enounter (and haven't deliberately overleveled before going there). That one looks like sheer hell.

[InsaneCommander]

On 9/11/2022 at 12:30 PM, Gromnir said:

a reasonable conclusion. unfortunately, is an owlcat game, so reasonable is never a reliable guide.

but yeah, they should be for nenio's quest.

as to the dragon, our recollection is you got a thug build. intimidation may make a big difference when fighting the dragon as intimidation ignores the lizard's spell resistance

at this point am thinking you got the signet o' vespertilio, the oppressor's gloves and the moss pottage soup camp recipe. combined, those is gonna boost your intimidation check by 10 even before you cast any skill enhancing spells. hopeful you took the intimidating presence feat. if so, you may boost charisma and strength to improve your intimidation modifier.

am not certain where you are in your azata progression, so no spoilers, but azata provides a few long-lasting buffs via resting and spells. 

gonna admit, the freaking vegetables in the dragon lair were for us a more difficult challenge than the lizard, but have always been able to start the fight with what amounts to an ambush and a healthy party with full buffs, so no doubt that makes a difference as well.

HA! Good Fun!

I completely forgot about the signet. I have the Gloves of the Ambassador, which are even better. And resting in the Commander's Court gives a week long bonus of +2 to skill checks. Not sure if it stacks with others, though.

13 hours ago, Gorth said:

Also ran into a skeleton merchant a few times as a random encounter. Bought a few nice things for the team.

You might wanna check what he sells and choose the best option when he asks. I don't know how frequently he appears, but there are some nice items that you could miss.

Edit: the Azata bonus is +2, not +3. And it seems to stack.

I still have to pick the Skill Specialization feat.

Edited September 12, 2022 by InsaneCommander

[Gromnir]

1 hour ago, InsaneCommander said:

I completely forgot about the signet. I have the Gloves of the Ambassador, which are even better. And resting in the Commander's Court gives a week long bonus of +2 to skill checks. Not sure if it stacks with others, though.

You might wanna check what he sells and choose the best option when he asks. I don't know how frequently he appears, but there are some nice items that you could miss.

Edit: the Azata bonus is +2, not +3. And it seems to stack.

I still have to pick the Skill Specialization feat.

don't ignore spells which provide a morale bonus. at the very least you could have an additional +2 for heroism, and depending on other party member caster levels, perhaps even +4 for greater heroism.  

moral support is a fifth level azata spell which you is unlikely to have access, but it will offer a big boost. 

intimidating prowess provides BIG benefits to a would be intimidator as you are able to add your strength modifiers to your intimidation checks, and strength is one o' the easier abilities to boost. spells such as legendary proportions will add a +6 size adjustment to your strength and that will stack with the + __ you get from belts and other gear. 

HA! Good Fun!

[InsaneCommander]

Just learned that I can rest at the Commander’s Court, so I didn’t need to reload. It’s ok, though.

I cleaned most of the enemy armies north of the Lake Lost to the Sun. Setsuna is level 7 now, he got Fireball, a +xp feat and extra energy. Btw, how does experience work in the Crusade battles? Should I kill the enemy units with my units to gain xp or can I destroy them with the Fire spell? Does it make any difference?

 

Wintersun.

 

Spoiler

What an interesting place. Crazy people and powerful monsters. The Blighted Treant with his Reflex +5 was a joke, but the Ancient Blighted Quickwoods were a different matter, they gave my character a taste of her own trick. Only Seelah stood her ground while the rest of the party ran away Frightened. I still have to fight the 27 HD tree monster, but I will leave that for later, after I rest.

The Sarkorian party looked strong, but I threw everything I had at them: Grease, Web, Sickening Entangle, Stinking Cloud, Acid Pit… There just wasn’t much they could do after that.*

I’m a guest of the Lady of the Sun in the village, but I imagine it will be safer to sleep outside. Even Darrazand was welcomed inside.

 

*They did come close to killing Aivu. Who targets the 5 year old child in combat? WTF?

 

2 hours ago, Gromnir said:

intimidating prowess provides BIG benefits to a would be intimidator as you are able to add your strength modifiers to your intimidation checks, and strength is one o' the easier abilities to boost. spells such as legendary proportions will add a +6 size adjustment to your strength and that will stack with the + __ you get from belts and other gear. 

HA! Good Fun!

Thanks for the tips. My character has strength 10, so I'm not planning on picking Intimidating Prowess for now. She fights with Rapiers and has weapon finesse, with a base dexterity of 16, but who knows, eventually she may equip a different belt and then things will change.

Edited September 12, 2022 by InsaneCommander

[Gorth]

Ran into a dragon on the road in what felt like a not so random encounter. I wonder if that was linked to Greybors companion quest

It sent Camellia to “deaths door” but otherwise decided it was better to flap away and fight some other day when I started hurting it.

I think I’m getting hang of the crusade management. It really is a bit like playing the old HoMM

[xzar_monty]

4 hours ago, Gorth said:

Ran into a dragon on the road in what felt like a not so random encounter. I wonder if that was linked to Greybors companion quest

It sent Camellia to “deaths door” but otherwise decided it was better to flap away and fight some other day when I started hurting it.

I am not using the death's door option, and that encounter felt so unnecessarily mean that I felt like doing something not altogether constructive.

[ShadySands]

15 hours ago, InsaneCommander said:

Btw, how does experience work in the Crusade battles? Should I kill the enemy units with my units to gain xp or can I destroy them with the Fire spell? Does it make any difference?

I don't think it matters

[MrBrown]

I don't think I managed to hit maximum level with any of my generals in my playthrough. Not that it mattered much.

[Gromnir]

1 hour ago, ShadySands said:

I don't think it matters

doesn't matter... but when you think 'bout it, the only one gaining or benefiting from xp is the general, so am s'posing based on curious d&d legacy o' per kill xp rewards which pathfinder embraces, it would make sense to have the general do as much personal damage during combat as is possible. however, to answer @InsaneCommander, it don't make no difference at all.

am actual kinda conflicted 'bout those xp acceleration crusade projects and council choices as am thinking the juice ain't worth the squeeze, but we invariably choose to boost general xp when available... 'cause? with these kinda games am kinda trained to never turn down an xp boost, so the fact we top out our general(s) with xp so early doesn't stop us from always choosing xp boosts.

also, am much disappointed in the elk. not only is the elk not benefiting from hooves, but at the moment it is limited to a single attack regardless o' level, although you maybe add attacks through haste and the like. regardless, what could be the best animal companion, 'cause o' mighty charge and the multiple attacks, is current the worst.

HA! Good Fun!

[Gorth]

Already got second thoughts about my triceratops riding barbarian. Don't get me wrong, the cool factor is enormous, but his natural fast movement speed on foot feels wasted. I suppose a pet would make sense if not used as a mount, but a giant centipede feels out of character and Regill is already the resident raptor champion. Time to test run another barbarian configuration (while still relatively manageable at level 10) for a bit. I have no idea how to manage time and money in the crusade part btw. The only things I sort of pay attention to is whether or not demon armies are about to lay siege to a place or, as happened once so far, the crowd gets restless if I don't conquer a fortification every 30 days. I'm getting closer to the end of my second 30 day period and have an army capable of taking the next fort once the middle flag turns yellow. No idea if it really matters or not, but I'll just pretend there is a bit of urgency and the people wants to hear constant good news from the front. Explored most of the locations now in the first bit of the map (minus the DLC) and wondering if I head south or southwest next (there doesn't seem to be a direct road west)

Edit: Not quite true, there was a place with a puzzle I need to solve, that couldn't be solved in the first visit. I got a tonne of bricks with green runes (iirc) in my inventory and also a dozen knives of no value, but with some rather amusing backstories (since they weigh very little, I decided to hang on to them for now)

[Gromnir]

26 minutes ago, Gorth said:

Already got second thoughts about my triceratops riding barbarian. Don't get me wrong, the cool factor is enormous, but his natural fast movement speed on foot feels wasted. I suppose a pet would make sense if not used as a mount, but a giant centipede feels out of character and Regill is already the resident raptor champion. Time to test run another barbarian configuration (while still relatively manageable at level 10) for a bit. I have no idea how to manage time and money in the crusade part btw. The only things I sort of pay attention to is whether or not demon armies are about to lay siege to a place or, as happened once so far, the crowd gets restless if I don't conquer a fortification every 30 days. I'm getting closer to the end of my second 30 day period and have an army capable of taking the next fort once the middle flag turns yellow. No idea if it really matters or not, but I'll just pretend there is a bit of urgency and the people wants to hear constant good news from the front. Explored most of the locations now in the first bit of the map (minus the DLC) and wondering if I head south or southwest next (there doesn't seem to be a direct road west)

 

one big advantage to being mounted is that enemies are more likely to first attack the mount as 'posed to the rider. if your barbarian takes the reckless assault rage power you benefit from a large attack bonus at the cost o' an ac hit, but stick your barbarian on a bulwark boar and by the end o' the game your critter will have a +70 ac, and is the critter which will be soaking up the hits a majority o' the time.

there is an annoying act iii quest which involves maxing crusade stats, and max for act iii is V. managing time and money, dealing with conquering forts and upgrading outposts while trying to level a general and do quests might feel a bit overwhelming. that said, the wotr crusade mechanic is much more forgiving than were kingdom building in kingmaker. however, the 30 day fort timer can be particular annoying as it makes sense to not capture all forts too quick, a situation which has the potential to become a real hindrance in act v where one "secret" quest requires you to advance the calendar by many months resulting in the implausible situation wherein you have defeated every army on the map and captured every enemy fortification, but your crusade morale steadily tanks. is a workaround if you decide to do that quest, so we will spoil you when it becomes relevant.

HA! Good Fun!

Edited September 13, 2022 by Gromnir

[Gorth]

31 minutes ago, Gromnir said:

one big advantage to being mounted is that enemies are more likely to first attack the mount as 'posed to the rider. if your barbarian takes the reckless assault rage power you benefit from a large attack bonus at the cost o' an ac hit, but stick your barbarian on a bulwark boar and by the end o' the game your critter will have a +70 ac, and is the critter which will be soaking up the hits a majority o' the time.

Oooh, didn't know it was that good as a "damage sponge". Thank you for the heads up. I might just stick with it for now then (since, the game comes with built in cheat mode in for of respec of everything short of gender iirc). I might down the line consider bulwark and boar, but honestly, he looks just awesome on a triceratops

I'll keep my dino as a wrecker until such a time where I feel like it needs more help staying alive

It's all a thematic thing after all, a reckless, raging, chaotic barbarian on a wrecking mount and inspiring ferocity in his party members (envision Ember on fire, charging at the enemy while yelling "Murder death kill! Murder death kill!")

[ShadySands]

I'm kinda surprised by how little the DLC added to the core of the game. 

[xzar_monty]

1 hour ago, ShadySands said:

I'm kinda surprised by how little the DLC added to the core of the game. 

Owlcat doesn't seem to do DLCs well, then. I think they were really quite poor in P:K. I haven't bought any of them for WotR. The difference in DLC quality between the Pathfinder games and PoE games is huge, in my opinion. (The White March is superb, The Beast of Winter is superb, SSS is OK and the FS is good.)

[InsaneCommander]

Wintersun – Part 2

 

Spoiler

Had a dramatic battle against Sarevok Marhevok. I didn’t rest and couldn’t count with my best spells and summons. Still, I somehow held the barbarian with Web or Phantasmal Web and only the dragon approached my team. The demons died with Ember’s rain of Fireballs (she still had 2 and the 3 provided by the staff) and my character reached negative hp twice.

Then Marhevok fell for Grease or Hideous Laughter (I didn’t find out which one) and the danger decreased a lot. The two archers left where killed mainly by Arueshalae’s bow and a scroll of Lightning Bolt (the one who had fire resistance).

Not sure how strong the Oolioddroo was, but she could probably have destroyed my party there when I forced her to break the spell and I killed Marhevok. We were in pretty bad shape.

Now the village population is smaller so either some people couldn’t deal with what they did or the demons started killing them. Freeing them doesn’t look like the best option for them, but why would I trust the demon’s promise of a neutral zone?

I also managed to kill the demon in the Gorum cave before resting, but Morveg was too much, so I finally rested in Wintersun. For whatever reason everyone decided to discuss philosophy, Arueshalae wondered if she is living in the Matrix or something and Nenio pondered on Finnean’s intimate desires after losing his body.

Morveg fell to Mindfog and Hideous laughter. I wondered what Gorum would think of that, but his altar cleansed the Corruption on the party, so he probably enjoyed it.

This battle got me to level 11. Sosiel can ride Bismuth now, Ember got Metamagic Bolster* and Nenio chose Phantasmal Killer as her Spell Specialization. My character’s persuasion rose to 48 now, without the Signet.

The level 27 tree monster was tricky, I tried 3 times and only killed it when I decided to fill the stone passage with summons stuck in my own spells and bombard it with fire. Apparently it helped that my main character and Sosiel were throwing bottles of Alchemist’s Fire, since until I did it, the monster would sometimes regenerate between Nenio’s and Ember’s fireballs. It must have been its Spell Resistance.

*Edit: @majesticyou mentioned using Metamagic Bolster for Ember's Rayfire spells. Does it affect only spells with area of effect damage? Is this only to get the spells on other levels?

Edited September 14, 2022 by InsaneCommander

[majestic]

1 hour ago, InsaneCommander said:

*Edit: @majesticyou mentioned using Metamagic Bolster for Ember's Rayfire spells. Does it affect only spells with area of effect damage? Is this only to get the spells on other levels?

It's there to fill your spell levels and make Hellfire Ray (once you get it) go super-brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr with rods adding more metamagic to it. There's one thing you need to be aware of, the game makes metamagic'ed spells a full action for spontaneous casters. So if for whatever reason you need your move action for something else, like a Cackle, you can't cast a Bolstered spell. You can, however, use a Bolster rod.

Owlcat gonna Owlcat.

Would also recommend taking a couple levels of Loremaster to get Improved Critial: Ray and Creeping Doom from the Druid spell list if you have no other characters that can cast it. Ascendant Element: Fire and (Greater) Elemental Focus: Fire as well as (Greater) Spell Focus: Evocation are pretty much a no brainer, I guess. Might as well go all out. If you don't mind going all out on the cheese and click a bit (or install a mod that makes it easier), you can pick Protective Luck as one of your Major Hexes.

It lasts only a short time, but you can extend that with Cackle. Cast it on a character, Cackle twice, cast it on the next character, Cackle twice, wash, rinse and repeat until you have a couple of hours of duration on your entire party. Just keep hitting that Cackle button and make sure everyone's in range. That, of course, also works with Fortune, improving your hit chances a good deal.

[InsaneCommander]

15 minutes ago, majestic said:

It's there to fill your spell levels and make Hellfire Ray (once you get it) go super-brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr with rods adding more metamagic to it. There's one thing you need to be aware of, the game makes metamagic'ed spells a full action for spontaneous casters. So if for whatever reason you need your move action for something else, like a Cackle, you can't cast a Bolstered spell. You can, however, use a Bolster rod.

Owlcat gonna Owlcat.

Would also recommend taking a couple levels of Loremaster to get Improved Critial: Ray and Creeping Doom from the Druid spell list if you have no other characters that can cast it. Ascendant Element: Fire and (Greater) Elemental Focus: Fire as well as (Greater) Spell Focus: Evocation are pretty much a no brainer, I guess. Might as well go all out. If you don't mind going all out on the cheese and click a bit (or install a mod that makes it easier), you can pick Protective Luck as one of your Major Hexes.

It lasts only a short time, but you can extend that with Cackle. Cast it on a character, Cackle twice, cast it on the next character, Cackle twice, wash, rinse and repeat until you have a couple of hours of duration on your entire party. Just keep hitting that Cackle button and make sure everyone's in range. That, of course, also works with Fortune, improving your hit chances a good deal.

 

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

For subsequent playthroughs, either dark codex or tabletop tweaks has a mythic feat or ability that lets spontaneous casters use metamagic freely. The same mod also fixes the Arcane bloodline capstone to actually give you the ability to freely use metamagic instead of the lame effect it has.

In other owlcat gonna owlcat, apparently the Sohei is actually the best archer monk. Because they can flurry with anything they have weapon training in (including weapon training from other classes) without specific restrictions, they can flurry with bows and use rapid shot/manyshot. And of course on top of this they get a horse. Lmao Zen Archer got robbed.

[MrBrown]

11 hours ago, majestic said:

There's one thing you need to be aware of, the game makes metamagic'ed spells a full action for spontaneous casters.

Doesn't that come from D&D 3.5?

 

10 hours ago, KP From Another World said:

In other owlcat gonna owlcat, apparently the Sohei is actually the best archer monk. Because they can flurry with anything they have weapon training in (including weapon training from other classes) without specific restrictions, they can flurry with bows and use rapid shot/manyshot. And of course on top of this they get a horse. Lmao Zen Archer got robbed.

Sounds like a bug.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

2 hours ago, MrBrown said:

Sounds like a bug.

The bow flurry combined with rapid shot/manyshot is an oversight from the pnp source that didn't account for the restrictions on Zen Archers when designing the Sohei. It doesn't make sense to me and seems like it would be common sense to fix the discrepancy for the videogame, but it's Owlcat so they not only didn't fix it but set the Sohei up with a pet to boot.

[uuuhhii]

11 minutes ago, KP From Another World said:

The bow flurry combined with rapid shot/manyshot is an oversight from the pnp source that didn't account for the restrictions on Zen Archers when designing the Sohei. It doesn't make sense to me and seems like it would be common sense to fix the discrepancy for the videogame, but it's Owlcat so they not only didn't fix it but set the Sohei up with a pet to boot.

owlcat didn't even have the time to edit entire page of description copy pasted directly from paizo book

how would they have time to fix any design oversight

[Gromnir]

is a bit less dramatic than kp makes seem. zen archer gets perfect strike, short bow weapon damage boost and uses wisdom for attack bonuses. in pnp is even less dramatic 'cause sohei don't benefit from flurry until level six and in any pnp campaign the wait to see flurry benefits is a questionable call, and 'course animal companions is also unable to traverse stairs and ladders n' such, so in anything other than a nonsensical wotr campaign horses is far less useful. even in wotr the main benefit o' the horse over other critters is that you may enlarge your rider to legendary size and chances are your sohei ain't using much enlarging 'cause he is still dex dependent. zen archer also gets all those front-loaded free feats, which is a serious underrated benefit unless you has actual built a sohei archer and realize you need every feat possible and need make a few sacrifices, particular if you go the snapshot route.

when archers were benefitting from mythic weapon finesse, the sohei archer were arguable the winner, but is far less settled now. neverthless, is a few sohei/demonslayer builds which looks excellent and might even make a crossbow sohei worthy o' consideration, particular if you got a trickster or are going for a melee heavy party procing attacks o' opportunity. 

(edit) that said, am gonna admit am most likely to use three levels o' zen archer added to inquisitor or hunter builds even though twenty levels is quite powerful. 'course am also not likely to do more than eleven levels for a sohei. 

HA! Good Fun!

ps aside, the perfect form aeon spell behaves mighty odd with animal companions. is the kinda cheese we ordinarily avoid, but have a celestial velociraptor benefit from a 50 charisma is kinda amusing. even so, is weird and unanticipated penalties baked into the formula. odd spell. 

pps perfect form shenanigans is extreme late game and such is o' little overall consequence. however, am indeed curious 'bout the current implementation o' the spell as it is not behaving as it did when first released, but is difficult to explain a few o' the curious current eccentricities. 

Edited September 15, 2022 by Gromnir

[InsaneCommander]

Not sure when this happened for the first time, but I don't think it is a bug.
 

Spoiler

There is a Babau that likes to join in battles on my side and disappear once the danger seems to be over. Probably a friend of Crinukh and/or one of Areelu's lackeys, like the ones who carried the Commander into Kenabres Square.

 

[Gorth]

2 hours ago, InsaneCommander said:

Not sure when this happened for the first time, but I don't think it is a bug.
 

  Hide contents

There is a Babau that likes to join in battles on my side and disappear once the danger seems to be over. Probably a friend of Crinukh and/or one of Areelu's lackeys, like the ones who carried the Commander into Kenabres Square.

 

I have neither of those two names in my party, but the little friendly Babau pops up for me too. Confused me the first few times, wondering where it came from. In the end, I just decided it was one of Arueshalae's (sp?) old lovers from the abyss, missing his (ex-)girlfriend

 

Edit: Could it be related to the mythic path (trickster in my case)? The "closet" meetings, that are part of the trickster path are hilarious. I could just imagine a real world, human cabinet meeting working exactly the same way