The All Things Political Topic - Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities

[BruceVC]

5 hours ago, Gorth said:

Part of the problem with gathering proof of war crimes is, Scott Morrison and his government sic’ed the federal police on the news outlets and seized pretty much all of it (what was available at the time) because it was too damaging for the government (didn’t fit their narrative of good vs evil)

 

edit: not sure if good link, sucks doing on a phone while in bed 

https://amp.abc.net.au/article/11309810

 

Thanks, I see this link has a comprehensive list to other links at the end which is a collaboration  of the Afghan  Files developments. So its a very  informative  link and in fact so detailed it made me create a new folder in Chrome in Bookmark Manager called " Australian&NZ Politics " which I will add these links and Zora's links to store and reference  later.....its not often I create new folders in my Bookmark manager but I do when their is  loads of data

Im pleasantly surprised  you were thinking of me while you were in bed...what was I wearing ? 

[Agiel]

On 2/12/2022 at 10:07 AM, Malcador said:

Is it actually true though?

http://www.hisutton.com/images/SM_recognition.jpg

The very nature of how submarines operate means one could essentially make any claim about their presence. See Soviet and Russian navy claims about the K-129, K-219 (the skipper and XO of this boat actually went on record dispelling the theory of a collision with a US Navy submarine), and K-141. Couple that with the fact that we have declassified records of USS Parche regularly penetrating Soviet waters to conduct cable taps in the Barents bastion and its mission now taken over by the USS Jimmy Carter and boats like it that have been in service since the early 90s are said to have spent more time in the waters off Murmansk than some Russian ships based there begs the question why the Russian Navy have not boasted about detecting such submarines in a littoral environment before now, let alone in the open sea? Given that the Russian navy tends to be the one service that struggles the most for funding (particularly if it isn't directly connected to the nuclear deterrence mission) they certainly could use the propaganda coup since the end of the Cold War.

Edited February 15, 2022 by Agiel

[Chairchucker]

Well Bruce maybe you'll be interested in the other 'Big Story' in Australian 'Politics', which is that the most recent outgoing Australian of the year Grace Tame, was found to have once... taken a photo with a bong! DUN DUN DUN!

 

https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/real-life/news-life/brilliant-response-to-grace-tame-bong-photo/news-story/54cff740ed0c851666f8faa72b9ddbc2

 

Some backstory. Grace Tame was a victim of child sexual assault, and later became an advocate on behalf of other victims, and due in part to her work, a law was changed. The law previously disallowed victims of child sexual assault to speak about the crimes committed against them; this was theoretically to protect them, but it didn't really do that very well.

Grace was presented her Australian of the Year award or whatever it's called by the PM, Scott Morrison.

The Liberal Party had recently had a sexual assault controversy of its own. It was not handled well.

Grace made no effort to pretend she was happy to be near the leader of a political party who badly mishandled a sexual assault allegation. There followed much pearl clutching by various people about how Grace should be more gracious and smile more etc, which eventually culminated in The Daily Mail digging up a photo from 2014 with her next to a bong.

[Gorth]

The only thing I've followed recently in Australian politics was the Morrison governments Religious Discrimination law. Which, in it's original form was a Carte Blanche for people to discriminate in workplaces and just about everywhere else, if they thought somebody offended their religious sensibilities. They then had to backtrack on just about every point, first explicitly making it clear schools could not expel the kids because they were members of the LGBT(add missing letters here) community, had the "wrong faith" and similar. Basically allowing schools, workplaces, shops etc. the discriminate without accountability, as long as it was for a good Christian cause.

https://www.abc.net.au/newsa/2022-02-10/government-consults-religious-groups-discrimination-bill/100818568

Another broken election promise (fortunately). Murdoch is probably foaming at the mouth at the moment.

 

edit:

Quote: "The Australian Christian Lobby said removing exemptions that allowed schools to discriminate against trans students "completely undermined" the bill."

Tl;dr; what's the point of a discrimination bill if you're not allowed to discriminate against school kids? What would be next? Public witch burning?

[Chairchucker]

Speaking as an Australian Christian, I absolutely despise the Australian Christian Lobby.

[Zoraptor]

What is it with Scott Morrison and cringey photo ops? I'm sure I remember some old bloke telling him to f___ off at the airport when he tried to get a handshake around that time too, which was about the most stereotypically Australian thing I've ever seen.

OTOH New Zealand's PMs have too many people shaking their hands.

Not quite as topical though.

[BruceVC]

17 minutes ago, Chairchucker said:

Speaking as an Australian Christian, I absolutely despise the Australian Christian Lobby.

Their is no valid reason that any religious person should be homophobic   and discriminate against LGBT based on their interpretation of scripture

You can absolutely be Christian and be proud of that without practicing this type of bigotry 

 

 

[Gorth]

9 minutes ago, Zoraptor said:

What is it with Scott Morrison and cringey photo ops? I'm sure I remember some old bloke telling him to f___ off at the airport when he tried to get a handshake around that time too, which was about the most stereotypically Australian thing I've ever seen.

I think my favourite is getting told to get off my lawn...

 

[BruceVC]

2 minutes ago, Zoraptor said:

What is it with Scott Morrison and cringey photo ops? I'm sure I remember some old bloke telling him to f___ off at the airport when he tried to get a handshake around that time too, which was about the most stereotypically Australian thing I've ever seen.

OTOH New Zealand's PMs have too many people shaking their hands.

Not quite as topical though.

Zora you sound cynical? Next thing you going to say you question the sincerity of politicians kissing babies?

@Gorth

Talking about Denmark, I was watching on CNN  how they have dropped all pandemic regulations and they asking " how has Denmark been able to do this "

Do you know 90% of Danish citizens trust their government and this is similar to other Nordic countries 

So this tells us that one of the secrets to a happy and prosperous country is to trust your government 

So you see why I generally say " we all should trust our governments or at least give them benefit of doubt " unless they clearly involved in wrong doing

And then I have another question for you, why dont you live in Denmark because it seems like a very well run country with an effective government? What made you such a wanderer and why did you decide to settle in Oz ? ( and I like Oz but Denmark seems overall better ? )

 

[Gorth]

21 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

Do you know 90% of Danish citizens trust their government and this is similar to other Nordic countries 

So this tells us that one of the secrets to a happy and prosperous country is to trust your government 

So you see why I generally say " we all should trust our governments or at least give them benefit of doubt " unless they clearly involved in wrong doing

And then I have another question for you, why dont you live in Denmark because it seems like a very well run country with an effective government? What made you such a wanderer and why did you decide to settle in Oz ? ( and I like Oz but Denmark seems overall better ? )

I saw an interview on the news here the other day, where a Danish guy (with heavy Danish accent) told the reporter, it was recommended by the government, therefore probably Ok to do so. I couldn't help burst out laughing, thinking about how some of our US forum members here would react if somebody said the same on US tv about the US government

 

There is a difference though. Although the Danish government controls many aspect of life, they are probably also one of the most scrutinized governments. The press, the independent auditors, the independent courts etc. are always (and I mean always) looking them over the shoulder and checking their every move, every action and every penny spent (and on what). It's these checks and balances, combined with transparency, which allows people to have a degree of trust in the decision making process.

 

Why would I want to live in Denmark? Too cold and too boring

[BruceVC]

34 minutes ago, Gorth said:

I saw an interview on the news here the other day, where a Danish guy (with heavy Danish accent) told the reporter, it was recommended by the government, therefore probably Ok to do so. I couldn't help burst out laughing, thinking about how some of our US forum members here would react if somebody said the same on US tv about the US government

 

 

Thats a great story about the trust or lack of trust in government 

But Gorth why you being so cynical about our American friends, Im sure @Guard Dog will tell you thats exactly what he feels when the US government tells US citizens whats best for them 

[Darkpriest]

Aaaaannnddd it's gone. Russian miliatry returning home after maneuvers ended... 

That is until next invasion threat will be pumped, next time they will have miliatary exercise, as @Zoraptor  explained multiple times

[BruceVC]

34 minutes ago, Darkpriest said:

Aaaaannnddd it's gone. Russian miliatry returning home after maneuvers ended... 

That is until next invasion threat will be pumped, next time they will have miliatary exercise, as @Zoraptor  explained multiple times

Is it even confirmed they withdrawing  and dont you think if this whole " exercise " was just theater why make such a big deal with the demands like Ukraine musnt join NATO? 

Do you know how ridiculous  that sounds? No what happened is Putin miscalculated the Western and global pushback and if he is withdrawing its because he realizes he doesnt have appetite  or resources to be able to invade Ukraine and face the consequence of the economic sanctions 

Sorry Dark but you should align with the winning team always and thats the West, we the good guys in the story  

[Darkpriest]

The demands were always there, since 1989... It's just the whole pnic and fearmongering plus the energy crisis let Putin to go with a hail marry of getting guarantees UA will not join NATO, and i have a feeling he got that from Macron and Sholz, given yesterdays comment from German side, that they support UA running their security priorities in unimpeded way, but there are no talks of UA joining NATO... 

[Darkpriest]

But all this bodes not well for Dems and Biden. They will actually have to deal with questions on the economy, unless they will be clinging to this topic and now trying to get some concessions from Russians... Or else panic goes on and on... 

[BruceVC]

22 minutes ago, Darkpriest said:

But all this bodes not well for Dems and Biden. They will actually have to deal with questions on the economy, unless they will be clinging to this topic and now trying to get some concessions from Russians... Or else panic goes on and on... 

I tend to agree, the Democrats arent doing very well on several fronts but I think Biden has handled this Ukraine crisis well by making everything so public and embellishing  the panic and getting the likes of CNN involved 

If you have been watching CNN you would have assumed Russia had already invaded   (but I like CNN, they cover many things well but they tend to gravitate towards SJWism too much ) 

 

[Gfted1]

25 minutes ago, Darkpriest said:

They will actually have to deal with questions on the economy...

Nah, weve got Covid and "supply chain problems" to fall back on into perpetuity.

[Gorth]

12 minutes ago, Gfted1 said:

Nah, weve got Covid and "supply chain problems" to fall back on into perpetuity.

Reminds me of an ERP (Enterprise Resource Planning) system I implemented once for a customer back in Denmark (many years ago)... To test currency exchange rate calculations, i introduced 'CHICKEN' as a currency code in their system and set up transactions against EUR, GBP, DKK etc. Barter economy FTW

 

The customer was not impressed (no sense of humour)

 

[pmp10]

Russian duma requests official recognition of Donbass separatists.
Putin refers to situation there as genocide.

We are two signatures away from a real test of a definition of an 'invasion'.

Edited February 15, 2022 by pmp10

[BruceVC]

10 minutes ago, pmp10 said:

Russian duma requests official recognition of Donbass separatists.
Putin refers to situation there as genocide.

We are two signatures away from a real test of a definition of an 'invasion'.

Why would this increase the likelihood of an invasion...Im confused by your point ?

[Malcador]

Well, it'd be like NATO and Kosovo.

[BruceVC]

12 minutes ago, Malcador said:

Well, it'd be like NATO and Kosovo.

I am not sure you can classify the NATO bombing campaign as an invasion?

[Elerond]

3 hours ago, Darkpriest said:

Aaaaannnddd it's gone. Russian miliatry returning home after maneuvers ended... 

That depends on what is your definition of going home.

It is like "Russian troops have been pulled back 1,500 kilometres from the Finnish-Russian border in the spirit of peaceful relations"  event though their closest naval air base is just 60 km from Finland's eastern border. And their later explanation also is bit clumsy. 

[Malcador]

4 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

I am not sure you can classify the NATO bombing campaign as an invasion?

On the premise, not necessarily the execution.  Although I suppose having 500lb bombs go off in your country not counting as invasion is an academic concept for the people experiencing it (although I guess everyone in the Balkans in the 90s must have been jaded enough by violence)

[pmp10]

27 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

Why would this increase the likelihood of an invasion...Im confused by your point ?

NATO PoV is that these are Ukrainian provinces.
What will they call Russian 'peacekeepers' moving in?

And more importantly what will they be willing to do about it.