Midnight Mass, episodes 4 and 5

Spoiler

One of the downsides of knowing that Mike Flanagan knows what he's doing is that sometimes mysteries and reveals fall flat. While someone else, let's say, Jar Jar Abrams and Alex Kurtzman, would easily build up Riley for four episodes and just kill him off without closing his character arc or without his death serving any purpose, that was not very believable in episode four, so when Riley just knocks at Erin's door having been converted to a vampire that didn't surprise me.

Neither did his actual death, although I don't think that was meant to be a suspenseful scene where the viewer would actually be on the edge of their seat wondering if Riley will attack Erin. That would not finish his arc, nor serve any purpose either. Doing any of that would make the story and not Riley go up in flames, and so it doesn't happen. It's pretty nice though, to see things happening as they must because it makes sense for them to happen the way they do, or perhaps because they can only happen the way they do because otherwise we'd be stuck in a bad show with bad storytelling, like so many other things I've watched.

Yet, can't help but thinking that he should have done his burning man act in front of more people than just Erin. But... only two episodes left, so I'll know soon enough. It would be fun to see Mildred run a stake through Pruitt's heart (also kind of funny to have his indiscretion come back and haunt him, I mean, pretty sure they were more than friends), but that isn't really this type of show. Although, I also thought it would not be vampire horror and somehow it is, even though the monster itself is the least interesting part of the series. Sorta hoping that Pruitt snaps and tears Bev's head clean off, but again, not really that type of series, is it?

I wasn't right when I said that it was perhaps a mistake to reveal the creature this early. It was necessary for everything else to work. It's not a highlight of the series by any means, but not a mistake in terms of ruining suspension either. So far I like it, even if the best part is kind of irrevocably gone now, and that was Riley and his interactions. Both the vampire reveal and Riley's boat ride could have probably used some other way than direct flashback exposition, but it made sense in context and is... fine, given the screentime the showrunner had to work with.

 

Edited December 1, 20214 yr by majestic

Midnight Mass:

Spoiler

On 11/29/2021 at 6:28 PM, majestic said:

A demon would have made more sense in context of the show, although vampires aren't completely free of Christian associations.

I actually preferred it this way, because it makes it more ambiguous. We don't need actual literal divine/demonic creatures in-universe - even though this thing borders on that, that's all it does. It would take away from the themes too much, which are the strength of the show IMO.

4 hours ago, majestic said:

It's pretty nice though, to see things happening as they must because it makes sense for them to happen the way they do, or perhaps because they can only happen the way they do because otherwise we'd be stuck in a bad show with bad storytelling, like so many other things I've watched

4 hours ago, majestic said:

Yet, can't help but thinking that he should have done his burning man act in front of more people than just Erin. But... only two episodes left, so I'll know soon enough. It would be fun to see Mildred run a stake through Pruitt's heart (also kind of funny to have his indiscretion come back and haunt him, I mean, pretty sure they were more than friends), but that isn't really this type of show. Although, I also thought it would not be vampire horror and somehow it is, even though the monster itself is the least interesting part of the series. Sorta hoping that Pruitt snaps and tears Bev's head clean off, but again, not really that type of series, is it?

4 hours ago, majestic said:

I wasn't right when I said that it was perhaps a mistake to reveal the creature this early. It was necessary for everything else to work. It's not a highlight of the series by any means, but not a mistake in terms of ruining suspension either. So far I like it, even if the best part is kind of irrevocably gone now, and that was Riley and his interactions. Both the vampire reveal and Riley's boat ride could have probably used some other way than direct flashback exposition, but it made sense in context and is... fine, given the screentime the showrunner had to work with.

Yeah, losing Riley was a big turning point, especially after episode 4, which...I actually cried while listening to Riley and Erin's descriptions of death. Both of their descriptions were incredibly moving, albeit for very different reasons. Although I like how the vampirism affects the characters, plot, and themes, I thought the vampire itself was just about besides the point. It's not necessarily a weakness either, but it's not...you know, it ain't Stranger Things' season 1 Demogorgon.

Midnight Mass

Spoiler

19 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

I actually preferred it this way, because it makes it more ambiguous. We don't need actual literal divine/demonic creatures in-universe - even though this thing borders on that, that's all it does. It would take away from the themes too much, which are the strength of the show IMO.

They are, although I have to admit now that I'm done with episode 6 (not sure if I can catch 7 tomorrow, tomorrow is the day I subject myself to Komi and Star Dreck, after all), I'm having trouble deciding whether or not I'd sign up for that deal. Living in darkness vs. not dying, I mean, who needs sunlight, right? Depends a bit on how much control the original vampire can exert over his creations.

Scary thing when you think about that there are cults like this in real life that get their members to kill themselves. The good people of Crockett Island at least know what awaits them, having actually seen it. Geez. And, uhm, when exactly has Ali taken communion? Can't have been that much either, so does any tiny amount work? Feels a bit like a plot hole, and I'm not sure where that's supposed to go.

19 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

Bullet to the head was all right too, just not very effective. 

19 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

Yeah, losing Riley was a big turning point, especially after episode 4, which...I actually cried while listening to Riley and Erin's descriptions of death. Both of their descriptions were incredibly moving, albeit for very different reasons. Although I like how the vampirism affects the characters, plot, and themes, I thought the vampire itself was just about besides the point. It's not necessarily a weakness either, but it's not...you know, it ain't Stranger Things' season 1 Demogorgon.

There were a lot of moving scenes up until then too, like when Riley deals with his family, but indeed, that talk was one of the highlights so far. Except for the ending, episode six was the weakest so far, I think (still good, just not as good as the rest). Scientific explanations are all fine and nice, but at the end of the day it's vampirism, and there's nothing new under the sun you can do with that. Kinda reminded me of Blade and X-Files that always contrasted Mulder's belief vs. Scully's pragmatic and scientific world view. I like Blade and X-Files, but Blade is Blade, X-Files is X-Files and this is... not the place for Sarah to make blood samples burn and talk about EPP without a counterpart in faith to contrast, like Mulder did for Scully or Erin did for Riley. Or anyone else did, with Riley, pretty much.

The final episode has some potential for drama now that Ali is turned, and Ed probably too. That'll be some tear jerking stuff. Poor Hassan can't catch a break, can he?

 

Star Dreck, Venal Disease, season 4, episode 3:

Current Burnham crying counter 1:3.

Spoiler

USS Credence is making a dilithium delivery. They lower the shields and ninjas beam into the ship, and a hilarious hand to hand combat scene ensues. This is one thing I'll never quite get, if you want to steal something, why beam in, why not just beam it out. You won't have a hand to hand comb... oh, never mind.

Teenage Mutant Ninja uhm... is this the Subaru Woowoo clan?

I should probably not pause during scene with extensive motion blur, but this is already time consuming enough without going an extra mile.

Okay, ninja woman says "Please my friend, choose to live."  Yeah, so this is the Shanghai Tal'what... something. Qowat Milat, the warrior nuns, which means Burnham's mom will soon show up, I guess. Unnamed ninja woman handily beats up poor man's Tony Todd.

Gault & Millau girl handily defeating poor man's Tony Todd. Redshirt deaths, a classic.

Oh hell no, please don't let that anomaly be a machine life form summoned version of the Star Trek Picard Reapers. Please.

Admiral Levi Shur Vance is talking about the fourth theft in a row. This one is new, someone died. Yeah, no wonder Tony Todd didn't agree to a guest star in this. Wow, Federation President Whatsherface makes the immediate connection that these thefts could be connected to the appearance of the gravitational negative space wedgie from the first two episodes, because... someone gave her the script to read in advance.

President be like: Yeah, I read that.

Ni'Var president Whatsherface meanwhile confirms that the anomaly is not heading towards any inhabited systems. Last episode it threatened the entire galaxy. Sure. But hey, random dilithium thefts are also immediately known to be linked to the anomaly. Of course I drew the same conclusion. It seems obvious for a watcher. It should not be obvious for the characters. More warrior nuns show up, and they're dressed in purple to make sure you can see the difference between rogue Qapla' warrior thief nun and regular Qapla' warrior nuns, lead by none other than Burnham's mommy. I almost managed to repress that super stupid side plot from last season.

Federation President Whatsherface nominates Burnham for the joint mission to apprehend Ninja Girl, because she has her full confidence. Two episodes and half a dozen terrible command decisions ago she dressed Michael down for being reckless.

I hate this so much.

Fed!Pres is talking to Michael, again citing the anomaly that currently threatens nobody at all as the biggest threat ever. I get it, the anomaly is probably controlled by something that will be revealed at some point and you all got the scripts and looked at the storyboards, but puhlease. Michael is all like: Ninja Girl killed a Starfleet officer. I WILL bring her to JUSTICE. Man, if Burnham was Kirk she'd probably have blown the Gorn away.

Cue intro. The scene continues with Saru eating in the mess and Tilly joining him.

Tilly stuffs some disgusting sludge into her mouth and says THIS IS DISGUSTING.

Yeah no sh*t Tilly, maybe you should not eat something that looks like transporter accident refuse. Oh, that's supposed to be mac and cheese. Okay. Tilly is trying new things as part of her therapy. She's trying to move out of her comfort zone because it's become uncomfortable or too comfortable. Not sure yet, she says. I'm pretty sure this subplot stupid though. Very sure. Already! Saru looks horrible discomfortable and runs off the moment he gets a chance. I feel you poor Abe, I feel you.

Adira and Gray's horrible metaphor for coming out/transitioning/finally being visible to the world continues. I know I complained about last season's blunt force attempt to raise these issues, but this android body metaphor nonsense is just as bad. Why can't you just... seriously. You're not doing anyone a service with this tripe. The dialogue is so painful, Guardian Xi explains that there are dangers. I wish there really were. Man, MAYBE they kill Gray off. Please. PLEASE.

Oh boy. Saru nominates Tilly to come to the mission to apprehend Ninja Thief, then Michael and Saru talk up Tilly's diplomatic skills that she's, uhm, never shown before. Yeah. Sure you two. Justify your stupid decisions in some manner if you must.

Tilly gets a Qwang-Wong standard issue sword and giggles like a five year old.

I'm taking bets now, is Tilly going to discover her innate talent as sword fighter in this episode and beat a ninja in hand to hand combat? They get attacked and the Whoopie Sister that's with Burnham and her mother gets killed. Tilly gets a mouthful of fist but is none the worse for wear. Gray, meanwhile, is finally uncoupled from Adira and "not yet" in his host body. How... dramatic. This is edge-of-your-seat stuff.

I'm kind of hoping this episode gets rid of both Tilly and Gray at the same time. Against all reason, I guess. Michael, her mother and Tilly find the Tomb of the Dragon Emperor, where what looks like a thousand terracotta warriors await their command. Kind of looks like a copy from Star Trek Voyager's Dragon's Teeth episode. They want to use Tilly as bait, Adira frets around and Booker has a fun talk with the Ni'Vari (is it Ni'Vari? No idea) president about guilt.

Right, Stamets has a new theory, the anomaly could be a primordial wormhole. Sure thing. Guys, the president would not call this the greatest threat since the burn if it was just some random anomaly, really, and Adira is treating Gray's android body like a coma patient, talking to it, holding it's hand.

Okay, so five minutes ago Michael and her entourage were trying to find a way up to the engine controls and dilithium chamber of the Tomb of the Dragon Emperor. They wanted to walk up there, but took a lift Michael found. Then they sabotaged the engine and used Tilly as bait to lure out the ninja to apprehend hear. She finds Tilly, Tilly is all like: "Hey, Michael, a little help here." and woosh, Michael and her mother use their personal transporters to immediately appear.

Could you semi-retarded half wits not have used those to get up to the engine controls five minutes ago? Seriously. How stupid are you? Or rather, just how stupid are those writers reponsible for these scripts, and why are these first-drafts-on-napkins filmed without a single QC pass? Anyway, Book mind melds with Vulcan!President to obtain something from his memories that could prove Stamets' theory of a primordial wormhole. Too bad it isn't there.

Stamets is all like:

Yeah. Let me look at the script too, please. To rip it up.

Not sure how that's going to help them, but I don't quite care. Michael figured out that the ship they're on is a cryo migration ship meant to have delivered survivors of a supernova to a nearby star system. Something went wrong, so she's trying to wake them. Yay. I wonder if they'll turn out ot be terrible and aggressive, like the Vaadwaur from Voyager. Booker finds peace in the mind meld. Ugh. This is all maudlin and terrible. I don't care about Book, and certainly not about his now dead family.

Say what you will about the past two seasons (and I said a LOT about how terrible they are), at least they had Mirror!Universe Michelle Yeoh to make things fun every now and then. This is going to stay this sort of sappy, terribly written, maudlin, ridiculous compilation of retarded moronism throughout the entire season, will it?

Meanwhile, Michael finds and fixes the problem. Unless this doesn't look like leftover footage from Independence Day they had lying around, Tilly isn't going to get her sword fighting moment of glory.

Last time these guys visited Urf, they got their asses kicked. Like twice, what with the sequel and all.

Tilly is depressed over the warrior nun that died who she met for the first time in this episode. Please put her out of her mystery and make Gabrielle (Burnham's mother) adpot her as lost cause. Please. Please let Gray be gone and Tilly too. Please. Gabrielle and Tilly are having a talk about looking inside and see if the path you're on has come to an end. Please Tilly, leave the show. Or Starfleet. Joint the Wutang Ninjas. Please.

Michael finds out that sometimes the ends may not justify the means, but they saved an entire species at the expense of the life of one Starfleet officer, who could just as well have stood aside instead of trying to play the hero. Back at home base, Federation!President Whatsherface remands Ninja!Nun to the custody of Ni'Var. Michael is pissed of and demands justice for the partner and kids of the redshirt who died, and the president gives her a THE END SOMETIMES JUSTIFY THE MEANS speech about Vulcan coming back to the Federation.

My brain. It buuuuurnnnnnnnnnns my precious. It BURRRRRRRRRRRRRRNS.

Admiral Levi Shur gives a long speech, then says they pay me by the letter. Yeah. Someone on the writing team is definitely getting paid by word count, because none of that dialogue is ever concise and to the point while at the same time never being impressive in its composition, writing style or eloquence. It's like the worst of both worlds, it's meandering, pointless, boring and anemic and way too long. When I contrast this with Midnight Mass' extended dialogues that are full of meaning and themes, this is just so void of either. Hollow, like the trunk of a dead tree. A reminder of what once was, and never shall be again.

Tilly, of course, stays on the ship. Gray's brainwave activity suddenly flares up. FML. Adira apparently was inspired by Elija Wood.

Look Gandalf, look! I'm Frodo!

Book and Michael spend a moment together looking at a holographic forest from Book's lost homeworld. Cue appeal to emotion orchestral soundtrack.

Current Burnham crying counter still at 1:3.

Please excuse me while I go slit my wrists. I hear bloodletting causes a sensation of euphoria, which is why it was used as treatment during the Dark Age. It didn't help any with the actual disease you had, but you didn't care for a while.

2 hours ago, majestic said:

Star Dreck, Venal Disease, season 4, episode 3:

  Hide contents

Saru nominates Tilly to come to the mission to apprehend Ninja Thief, then Michael and Saru talk up Tilly's diplomatic skills that she's, uhm, never shown before.

 

If I were generous I'd count her impersonation of alt universe bondage Tilly back in S1 as some sort of diplomatic mission, at least.

 

 

Wheel of Time ep5: TLDR; not a fan of this one at all, possibly worse than Ep1. Changes stuff that doesn't need changing, badly unfocused, and then doesn't change stuff that actually does need changing because you've changed other stuff.

Note: includes fairly extensive book spoilers this time

Spoiler

1) pretty much literal cartoon villainy from the whitecloaks. Checks all the necessary boxes of unnecessary/ being evil just for the sake of it, incompetence and even monologuing yourself to, well, not actual death because we need Valda for later.

2) if you didn't know who the showrunner's favourite character was before this ep you'd certainly know after. No Nynaeve (or Lan), Perrin doesn't even get to kill his two whitecloaks but instead unbreakable Egwene* saves the day with an assist from some german shepherd/ husky crosses. Perrin otoh is more or less reduced to berserking as ineffectively as Tim McInernery's character in Erik the Viking pretty much down to even the fake spittle.

3) way too much Stepin. Yeah, it's set up for a later plot point, but that plot point isn't that important. Certainly not what felt like half an episode worth of importance. The whole thing aimed for emotional depth and achieved close to utter cringe. Mild digression but it does make me wonder if as seems likely Moiraine arranges for Alanna to pick up Lan's bond instead of Myrelle whether Alanna will bond Rand. Her holding his and Lan's bond would be even more awkward than what happened in the books. Oh yeah, my thoughts than we we'll get more on Thom's nephew Owyn is solidified by Alanna's warder being renamed from Owein.

4) this is the change they should have made but didn't, and it's a real ffs moment. Ogier are at least fairly common in Tar Valon. Giving Loial the same introduction as in Caemlyn in the books where people think he's a trolloc and chase him makes no sense when you've shifted the meeting place to Tar Valon.

5) this episode was not a good use of time. Other stuff will be rushed because of this.

6) Moiraine is far far too sanguine about losing 4/5 of her life's work, no need to look for them or anything. That ain't book Moiraine, it also ain't the Moiraine from Ep1-2 either. That is, of course, due to the change with them meeting Logain's group, but really. 20 years of her life looking for them and it's all just "let's wait a month and see if they just turn up". Yeah, nah.

7) OTOH, and more positively Loial sounds good, and looks pretty good too overall. Far too short of course, but that money can be better spent elsewhere.

9) smileys need to die in a fire. Can't even alt code round the little bastards any more, makes me so 😡😡😡

10) I suspect the misdirection on who the Dragon is is working pretty well on non book readers. I do still wish I could be more positive, at least, but this episode was... difficult, and had very few positives.

*honestly Egwene is my least favourite character of the books. The only difference between her and Elaida is Elaida is wrong about everything, Egwene is only wrong about most things. Really cemented when Elaida is disappointed Alviarin isn't a darkfriend (yep, she's wrong about everything) because it would be politically expedient if she were while Egwene is disappointed that Lelaine and Romanda aren't darkfriends because... it would be politically expedient if they were.

If there's one thing that may get me to stop watching full stop it's B grade Egwene fanfic/ hagiography making it to screen.

 

8 hours ago, majestic said:

Please excuse me while I go slit my wrists. I hear bloodletting causes a sensation of euphoria

Yeah, my best friend of about ~10 years ago used to slit her wrists, and that's more or less what she said about it. Feels good to hurt in a controlled manner that you caused, I guess. It's probably more enjoyable than watching that show - maybe it'll even free you of your OCD that makes you keep doing so, .

(Serious note to everyone: don't start slitting your wrists, the two people I personally know that did...well, one of them is dead and the other has plenty of regrets about it and many other things, but thankfully doesn't do anything of that nature anymore. All forms of self-harm stink.)

Edited December 3, 20214 yr by Bartimaeus

17 hours ago, Zoraptor said:

If I were generous I'd count her impersonation of alt universe bondage Tilly back in S1 as some sort of diplomatic mission, at least.

Series squandered being generous within, like, ten minutes of the pilot.

The Wheel of Time’s Showrunner Talks All Things Loial | Tor.com

12 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

Yeah, my best friend of about ~10 years ago used to slit her wrists, and that's more or less what she said about it. Feels good to hurt in a controlled manner that you caused, I guess. It's probably more enjoyable than watching that show - maybe it'll even free you of your OCD that makes you keep doing so, .

Driving a rusty nail through your nether regions is probably more enjoyable than watching Star Trek Discovery. I'm also pretty sure that won't help, and I have no desire to try.

Spoiler

I guess it won't come as any surprise at this point that some of my friends also engaged in self-destructive behaviour, especially Makoto (should really refer to her by some other name, her actual name would be innocuous enough in light of the anonymity of this forum, however it's dangerously close to looking and sounding like Karen, and that's just absolutely unfortunate - and unacceptable ). She didn't cut herself though, at least not on purpose, she was the sort of klutz that would drop scissors and drive them deep enough into her thigh to need stitches while trying to catch them.

Putting out cigarettes on her legs though, yikes... 

 

13 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

(Serious note to everyone: don't start slitting your wrists, the two people I personally know that did...well, one of them is dead and the other has plenty of regrets about it and many other things, but thankfully doesn't do anything of that nature anymore. All forms of self-harm stink.)

There's no way I'd ever engange in self-inflicted harm that in any form causes actual damage to my skin. Warm water starts to hurt at a temperature that everyone else I know considers too cold to shower with, any form of cutting or tearing is just out of the question.

But yeah, get help instead of inflicting self harm, that's a much better approach. More difficult too, I imagine, but much better.

22 hours ago, Zoraptor said:

 

  Hide contents

*honestly Egwene is my least favourite character of the books. The only difference between her and Elaida is Elaida is wrong about everything, Egwene is only wrong about most things. Really cemented when Elaida is disappointed Alviarin isn't a darkfriend (yep, she's wrong about everything) because it would be politically expedient if she were while Egwene is disappointed that Lelaine and Romanda aren't darkfriends because... it would be politically expedient if they were.

 

 

Spoiler

It's always been hard to like Egwene because she is the most sexist character in the series. Ignoring that, it felt like she was given the amyrlin seat. It wasn't like the White Tower didn't have other women with more experience and political backing. And as for Egwene trying a sit down strike for the last battle, all they'd have to do was threaten to let her do so and she'd come around just to be there. In this way making her ta'veren was probably a preemptive explanation as to why she's given the amyrlin seat. 

 

WoT spoilers re Egwene (show and book)

Spoiler

I think the issue for me is not really that early Egwene was the version I personally liked most (which she was), but that they've basically short circuited all her character development by turning her into an Unbreakable Badass™ from the beginning in order to promote the Dragon mystery for the show.

I don't like later Egwene much at all (deus ex machina plotting aside* she's written well though except maybe for her character flaws not costing her anything**, I just don't like her), but at least the road to how she gets her personality is interesting and has genuine character development, and that softens the edges on her self righteousness- she's obnoxious and has a massively inflated ego, but you know why and she's more or less earned the right to it so long as you can accept someone who wasn't even a novice ~2 years prior becoming Amyrlin, at age 20. I'd be very much worried that show Egwene is going to skip earning it though.

*The only character as ludicrously indulged by the mid to late narrative is Cadsuane, who is written whether deliberately so or not as a near parody archetype of what Aes Sedai think they are versus what they really are.

**they did eventually of course, but even then it wasn't really her character flaws except poor choice in warder.

 

Egwene:

Spoiler

If they're going to skip the actually interesting parts of her character (i.e. the first half-ish part of the series), then she's going to be utterly intolerable, because even though she was my favorite character, she becomes absurdly powerful and self-righteous over the course of the series, and the narrative doesn't really seem to realize how ridiculous it all is and constantly justifies her, how she thinks, and everything she does without her really ever suffering any kind of failure or weakness after a certain point. So if they're not going to bother with the part that actually tries to help justify and explain why she is the way she is, it has a high probability of being an even worse version of Rey's "perfect at everything she does" character from the new Star Wars.

What is up with making female characters the worst in big franchises these days? Weakness and failure is not a bad thing, guys - it's what makes your characters human (not to mention interesting), and for a "classic" character, that's part of what makes it that much sweeter when they finally start to succeed.

(e): I guess I should say that Egwene was my favorite character in the first half of the series, while Mat was my favorite character in the second half, probably simply because he just felt like a silly and fun breath of fresh air compared to everyone else. If there is anyone that I would've immediately had murdered in cold blood in order to make the second half of the series significantly better, it would have to be Elayne.

 

Edited December 4, 20214 yr by Bartimaeus

Wheel of Time episode 1.

To be more accurate maybe 15 minutes of it because I was busy doing other things. It's corny and feels like a CW show with a bigger budget. I don't see any reason to keep up with it.

2 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

What is up with making female characters the worst in big franchises these days? Weakness and failure is not a bad thing, guys - it's what makes your characters human (not to mention interesting), and for a "classic" character, that's part of what makes it that much sweeter when they finally start to succeed.

While the answer it trite you really can't get around the Galbrush Paradox as an explanation; anything other than consistent strength and competence is seen as sexist when applied to a female character.

And unfortunately that tends to lead to boring characters who cannot get character development because they're already fully developed. To be frank I find that idea to be the intellectual equivalent of expecting all women to be bikini models looks wise.

So for Egwene...

Spoiler

The 'point' of her arc is that she does start off as someone who does need rescuing. Doesn't make her weak, it just makes her realistic as a 18 year old woman who has lead a pretty sheltered life. And to be fair to the show the number of rescues in the early books is... somewhat excessive. Whitecloaks, Seanchan, and- worse, since they are rescues required with Nynaeve and Elayne along as well- some random Cairhienin bandits and Tear, in a single book. But the payoff is that by the end she is pulling Elaida's house of cards down from the inside despite theoretically being her prisoner.

You don't get that payoff though if it isn't earnt by the early stuff, and it isn't earnt if she's effectively freeing herself from whitecloaks a mere month out from the 2R. And to be fair to the books this time, as early as Tear she was very close to freeing herself with no help except some mild Black Ajah stupidity in not taking her ring ter'angreal.

 

Edited December 4, 20214 yr by Zoraptor

Five episodes in and I think the pilot is the weakest of the bunch with WoT. The world feels less janky and more expansive.

There are still moments I'm having the "How the crap is that change going to work??!" before settling back and doing the "show as a companion piece to the books, not a literal translation of the books" moment.

Finally have Loial on screen, and while there are potential issues with his looks - they've pushed practical prosthetics that can be used again and again vs CGI that might see the character sidelined due to budget issues - but the voice, character and delivery are pretty much spot on. That and the library introduction sequence between him and Rand was almost spot on to the book.

For the subtle note, I did enjoy the lurking presence of Padan Fain hiding in the background of some of the shots of the boys moving through the city.

 

Edit:

Also of note for the uber-WoT geeks out there: The panning shot when Mat and Rand arrive to look out over Tar Valon?  To be there looking over the river and seeing the city and Dragonmount in the background...  Would mean at some point they've gone from west to east, crossed the river, headed north, and now have to cross back over from east to west.

Apparently all roads do lead to Tar Valon, but possibly via euclidian geometry.

 

Edited December 4, 20214 yr by Raithe

Cowboy Bebop.

I don't hate it like some others, but it is very much lesser than the anime. Honestly it would have worked better if they did more adapting and less translating, too many of the frames recreating frames from the anime just look awkward. As a show though, it's not nearly as bad as Wheel of Time.

 

Midnight Mass, finale.

Spoiler

Whee. Bev digging her own grave in a metaphorical and literal sense (sort of) was pretty satisfying. Final few shots special effects were pretty bad, and I'm not buying any of that "no place left to hide" thing, but that's fine, it made for one beautiful ending. From a narrative "making sense" sort of way it would have been better to have them ditch the ones they don't want to take on and then have Sarah or Hassan burn the rec center in the middle of the day when they're vulnerable.

Of course what would have precluded the character moments at the end, and most of them facing death with dignity, which was really great to see.

Can't say I liked how it left the fate of the "Angel" open. Door's wide open to an unnecessary sequel there.

I think I'll give The Haunting of Bly Manor a shot now.

On 12/3/2021 at 12:44 AM, Zoraptor said:

Wheel of Time ep5: TLDR; not a fan of this one at all, possibly worse than Ep1. Changes stuff that doesn't need changing, badly unfocused, and then doesn't change stuff that actually does need changing because you've changed other stuff.

I think this is the best description of the series so far.
 

Spoiler

So the Whitecloaks are torturing channelers literally at sight distance from the White Tower? They better show some serious reaction from the Aes Sedai and explain why nobody noticed they were that close. Why make it happen so close to Tar Valon? This was unnecessary.

I can understand if Liandrin doesn't mind Lan addressing her without the honorific "Sedai", but the novices barely making way for her seems pretty bad. How can they not notice things like this? Would it be that difficult to do it correctly?

 

Edited December 5, 20214 yr by InsaneCommander

The show's crap. You should just accept and move on. I'm doing a reread of the books. We can start a book club. 😏

3 hours ago, the_dog_days said:

The show's crap. You should just accept and move on. I'm doing a reread of the books. We can start a book club. 😏

I am also rereading, and enjoying book 2 right now.

So am I, though I started a month or so before the series dropped (and am up to Shadow Rising)

4 hours ago, InsaneCommander said:

 

  Hide contents

So the Whitecloaks are torturing channelers literally at sight distance from the White Tower? They better show some serious reaction from the Aes Sedai and explain why nobody noticed they were that close. Why make it happen so close to Tar Valon? This was unnecessary.

I can understand if Liandrin doesn't mind Lan addressing her without the honorific "Sedai", but the novices barely making way for her seems pretty bad. How can they not notice things like this? Would it be that difficult to do it correctly?

 

WoT spoilers
 

Spoiler

The Whitecloak thing is at least semi consistent with the books. Valda did take his legion to within sight of Tar Valon during TGH, and was there when Verin, Mat and the girls' party came back from Falme in early TDR.

Still not a great choice to have it happen close to TV when they could have had it happen sometime during the preceding month instead. Guess it does somewhat set up a potential question of whether show Valda is an out and out darkfriend (ie a merge of book Valda and Carridin) or just a run of the mill non darkfriend moustache twirler as Valda was in the book. If he'd seen Egwene and Perrin via dreams it does somewhat explain his cartoon villainy as trying to determine whether one of them was the Dragon.

 

7 hours ago, majestic said:

Midnight Mass, finale.

  Hide contents

Whee. Bev digging her own grave in a metaphorical and literal sense (sort of) was pretty satisfying. Final few shots special effects were pretty bad, and I'm not buying any of that "no place left to hide" thing, but that's fine, it made for one beautiful ending. From a narrative "making sense" sort of way it would have been better to have them ditch the ones they don't want to take on and then have Sarah or Hassan burn the rec center in the middle of the day when they're vulnerable.

Of course what would have precluded the character moments at the end, and most of them facing death with dignity, which was really great to see.

Can't say I liked how it left the fate of the "Angel" open. Door's wide open to an unnecessary sequel there.

I think I'll give The Haunting of Bly Manor a shot now.

 

Spoiler

I thought it was all but stated that it died, because the sun rose and suddenly Leiza (spelling?) couldn't walk anymore again. I thought it was just the show's way of not having to show its death, which would've been pointless and taken away from the end moment. If there's a Stranger Things-esque pointless sequel, probably gonna have to count me out, .

I agree with you that from a narrative point of view, it's not necessarily the strongest...but it makes up for it by having it all thematically tie together. Plus, I think one can make excuses for some things, such as neither Sarah or Sheriff not wanting to literally burn the rest of the town to death (which I think Bev actually points out and is "surprised" by) and instead merely doing exactly what they did in response. Makes it so their hands aren't nearly so sullied...and it also helps get that moment of redemption for Ali, of course, . But in a very real sense, yes, that's exactly what you would do because you're fighting a borderline supernatural vampire army that is intent on eating and converting the world, .

Remember you are dust, and to dust you shall return.

Edited December 5, 20214 yr by Bartimaeus

Welp, guess I'm reading WoT...

Midnight Mass:

Spoiler

 

3 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

I thought it was all but stated that it died, because the sun rose and suddenly Leiza (spelling?) couldn't walk anymore again. I thought it was just the show's way of not having to show its death, which would've been pointless and taken away from the end moment. If there's a Stranger Things-esque pointless sequel, probably gonna have to count me out, .

Leeza, according to the credits.

I guess I'm just too wary of not seeing dead bodies these days, or a vampire go up in flames, in this case. I thought Leeza not being able to walk was more "yeah, my supply of vampire blood dried up" than "I guess that confirms the originator is dead", but that works too. You may be right, and the creature just died and the blood lost its effect, however, vampire blood not fully taking over its host body until it dies is clearly established as the way this sort of vampirism works, and Sarah's research and theory suggested that while consuming the blood has regenerative effects that it might eventually just fully degrade. The largest changes in the characters - Mildred's age reversal and Leeza walking again came from daily communion.

Might be reaching here, but there's much more setup for one than the other.

3 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

I agree with you that from a narrative point of view, it's not necessarily the strongest...but it makes up for it by having it all thematically tie together. Plus, I think one can make excuses for some things, such as neither Sarah or Sheriff not wanting to literally burn the rest of the town to death (which I think Bev actually points out and is "surprised" by) and instead merely doing exactly what they did in response. Makes it so their hands aren't nearly so sullied...and it also helps get that moment of redemption for Ali, of course, . But in a very real sense, yes, that's exactly what you would do because you're fighting a borderline supernatural vampire army that is intent on eating and converting the world, .

It's worse because Hassan (debatebale), Erin and Sarah could have easily survived by just waiting a few more minutes. Bev was going to guide everyone inside anyway. The character moments could have come from the three being found by Ed, Annie, Pruitt, Mildred, Ali and any other unnamed vampires rejected by Beverly who would show their strength of faith and character by not consuming the remaining survivors in the face of certain death. There would have been some other way to include Ali's redemption, perhapy by going up against the Angel itself after it attacks his father - that would also have neatly taken care of the problem with Hassan probably not wanting to live on after losing his son.

That could have also removed the need for the one thing that actually bothered me a bit about the Angel, i.e. the unestablished way it just starts consuming blood and losing all sense in the process. Yes, that is essentially a parable for addiction, I suppose, but wasn't that part of the show over with Riley's death? If showing that this is what addiction does to people, then would it not have been much more meaningful to make sure Joe Collie survives and would be the one to overcome the vampire at the end? His arsenal is also established well enough, he could have stayed sober and taken care of the Angel then.

Pruitt could have eaten someone else, like the drug dealer, since apparently everyone knew he was dealing drugs anyway, you know, instead of making the drug dealer a way to hint at the creature that's fully revealed in the very next epsiode anyway.

3 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

Remember you are dust, and to dust you shall return.

I'll still try my damndest to avoid that. You know the saying. Born to live forever - or die trying.

edit:

Well, look at me going into hypercritical mode in spite of really enjoying the series.

Edited December 5, 20214 yr by majestic