Gromnir Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Achilles said: But per @Gromnir it looks like they've already spoken on the matter, so I'll defer to those that follow this more closely than I do the thing is, it makes sense from a paizo pov to not have 1st edition being bolstered while they is trying to sell 2e pnp products. when black isle was working on what was effective bg3, it were made kinda clear it could not be another 2nd edition d&d game, 'cause wotc had moved on from 2nd edition. assume same reasoning for paizo, yes? converse, owlcat has already invested in developing an engine which supports 1e, so what is their motivation to embrace 2e? got no idea what is the license agreement 'tween paizo and owlcat, but perhaps they is ps:t fans and both parties embraced the rule of three? *shrug* all we got is a recollection o' yulia responding to the 2e question during a beta stream, which is hardly definitive. even so, is curious paizo licensed the development o' a 1e game, much less two such titles. is reasonable to assume paizo would want 2e instead o' 1e. unfortunate, reasonable is rare a good guide for predicting human behaviour. edit: have not watched any o' this, but is paizo folks and owlcat discussing wotr and kingmaker. HA! Good Fun! Edited October 12, 2021 by Gromnir 2 "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PK htiw klaw eriF Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 24 minutes ago, Achilles said: I chalked that up to WotR already being in the works, but that's speculation on my part (especially since I'm not incredibly savvy re: the timing of those events). It could be, it could also be that at that point when WotR was announced there was not too much content out for 2e (I think one adventure path and the player's handbook), so they just went with the system that had a decade of published content. Either is plausible and makes sense. With 2e releasing more content I think a 2e game isn't far off. But I don't think it's next for Owlcat. 2e differs significantly from 1e that they'd need to scrap a ton of stuff, while comparatively Starfinder is more similar to 1e, is currently being published by Paizo, and does fit with that hiring notice for a people with experience in scifi games. Right now I'd bet on that the next Owlcat game will be Starfinder and a 2e game follows that. If they keep the same pace that they did with KM and WotR, then I guess we'll probably see a kickstarter in mid to late 2022. 1 "Akiva Goldsman and Alex Kurtzman run the 21st century version of MK ULTRA." - majestic "I'm gonna hunt you down so that I can slap you square in the mouth." - Bartimaeus "Without individual thinking you can't notice the plot holes." - InsaneCommander "Just feed off the suffering of gamers." - Malcador "You are calling my taste crap." -Hurlshort "thankfully it seems like the creators like Hungary less this time around." - Sarex "Don't forget the wakame, dumbass" -Keyrock "Are you trolling or just being inadvertently nonsensical?' -Pidesco "we have already been forced to admit you are at least human" - uuuhhii "I refuse to buy from non-woke businesses" - HoonDing "feral camels are now considered a pest" - Gorth "Melkathi is known to be an overly critical grumpy person" - Melkathi "Oddly enough Sanderson was a lot more direct despite being a Mormon" - Zoraptor "I found it greatly disturbing to scroll through my cartoon's halfing selection of genitalias." - Wormerine "Am I phrasing in the most negative light for them? Yes, but it's not untrue." - ShadySands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaeliorin Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 I'd think that Paizo would be happy getting any cRPG published at all. It's not like there are a lot of cRPGs published based on existing systems other than D&D. Also, it helps people forget about that atrocious MMO-thing they tried to make. That said, Iron Gods or Starfinder are the top candidates for their next game from the scuttlebutt I've heard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromnir Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 (edited) in the linked video, at ~1:26:00 mark, one o' the paizo guys asks chat and the owlcat folks what ap they would want to do next. ... first thought were we could make so much money playing poker with these particular owlcat folks. was quite obvious they didn't wanna get in trouble talking 'bout what had already been discussed internal for the follow-up release. brief discussion only referenced 1e ap material as options, but were hardly definitive. side note: the other frontrunner options for the second owlcat game were mummy mask (too much desert,) ironfang invasion (setting too similar to kingmaker,) and war for the crown (too much city content-- high resource.) am not having the patience to view the entire video in a sitting, or two... or three. HA! Good Fun! ps keep in mind is not our editorializing regarding mummy mask, ironfang and war for the crown but rather the owlcat personalities, so point out all the city content in wotr is an obvious response, but am just relaying for those who don't feel like watching all ~three hours. Edited October 13, 2021 by Gromnir "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agiel Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 From what I've heard on the Discord about the only AP that's not under consideration is <<Reign of Winter>> since Owlcat may run afoul of laws in Russia regarding "unpatriotic sentiments". 1 Quote “Political philosophers have often pointed out that in wartime, the citizen, the male citizen at least, loses one of his most basic rights, his right to life; and this has been true ever since the French Revolution and the invention of conscription, now an almost universally accepted principle. But these same philosophers have rarely noted that the citizen in question simultaneously loses another right, one just as basic and perhaps even more vital for his conception of himself as a civilized human being: the right not to kill.” -Jonathan Littell <<Les Bienveillantes>> Quote "The chancellor, the late chancellor, was only partly correct. He was obsolete. But so is the State, the entity he worshipped. Any state, entity, or ideology becomes obsolete when it stockpiles the wrong weapons: when it captures territories, but not minds; when it enslaves millions, but convinces nobody. When it is naked, yet puts on armor and calls it faith, while in the Eyes of God it has no faith at all. Any state, any entity, any ideology that fails to recognize the worth, the dignity, the rights of Man...that state is obsolete." -Rod Serling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromnir Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Agiel said: From what I've heard on the Discord about the only AP that's not under consideration is <<Reign of Winter>> since Owlcat may run afoul of laws in Russia regarding "unpatriotic sentiments". is easy to forget that russians making a game in russia could be a different exercise than what you might expect from the hurdles faced by obsidian or other game developers. at the ~38:00 mark, james jacobs o' paizo stresses the importance o' making games inclusive... racial, ethic, sexual, etc. at this point the owlcat folks got uncharacteristic taciturn and subject were changed immediate following mr. jacobs' response. HA! Good Fun! Edited October 13, 2021 by Gromnir 1 "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Achilles Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 Following last night's...frustrating foray into act VI, I decided to play around with caster merc builds. Sorcerer with 3rd level spell, Battering Blast + lots and lots of metamagic. is easily pushing really big enemies around the battlefield and taking huge chunks of health off of them in the process. After playing with, not one but two, Kineticists in KM, I decided to swear them off because the class feels a little too much like cheating. But since they put a non-optional "Playful Darkness"-level encounter right smack in the middle of chapter, I've decided to revisit that stance. Earth/metal/magma for Deadly Earth that overcomes rare metal DR FTW. Kinetic blast = ranged touch attack, so lots of easy hits for mop up. Passing this along for anyone who feels like rage quitting right before the end. "Art and song are creations but so are weapons and lies" "Our worst enemies are inventions of the mind. Pleasure. Fear. When we see them for what they are, we become unstoppable." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agiel Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 (edited) 26 minutes ago, Achilles said: After playing with, not one but two, Kineticists in KM, I decided to swear them off because the class feels a little too much like cheating. But since they put a non-optional "Playful Darkness"-level encounter right smack in the middle of chapter, I've decided to revisit that stance. Earth/metal/magma for Deadly Earth that overcomes rare metal DR FTW. Kinetic blast = ranged touch attack, so lots of easy hits for mop up. The presence of "Kaessi" does make "the Room" encounter in the House at the Edge of Time far less akin to trying to destroy a fire ant hill with your bare hands while covered in honey. @GromnirA real damn shame. <<Reign of Winter>> and <<Iron Gods>> were so highly regarded by myself and much of the Pathfinder player base due to introducing the idea that there's a much wider universe beyond Golarion that's decidedly far more grounded, and their interaction with the fantasy-based civilisation of Golarion was a great breath of fresh air in contrast to your typical Tolkien-esque affair of other settings. Edited October 13, 2021 by Agiel Quote “Political philosophers have often pointed out that in wartime, the citizen, the male citizen at least, loses one of his most basic rights, his right to life; and this has been true ever since the French Revolution and the invention of conscription, now an almost universally accepted principle. But these same philosophers have rarely noted that the citizen in question simultaneously loses another right, one just as basic and perhaps even more vital for his conception of himself as a civilized human being: the right not to kill.” -Jonathan Littell <<Les Bienveillantes>> Quote "The chancellor, the late chancellor, was only partly correct. He was obsolete. But so is the State, the entity he worshipped. Any state, entity, or ideology becomes obsolete when it stockpiles the wrong weapons: when it captures territories, but not minds; when it enslaves millions, but convinces nobody. When it is naked, yet puts on armor and calls it faith, while in the Eyes of God it has no faith at all. Any state, any entity, any ideology that fails to recognize the worth, the dignity, the rights of Man...that state is obsolete." -Rod Serling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadySands Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 My overwhelming soul is pretty much my whole party's damage. 1 Free games updated 3/4/21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uuuhhii Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 51 minutes ago, Achilles said: Following last night's...frustrating foray into act VI, I decided to play around with caster merc builds. Sorcerer with 3rd level spell, Battering Blast + lots and lots of metamagic. is easily pushing really big enemies around the battlefield and taking huge chunks of health off of them in the process. After playing with, not one but two, Kineticists in KM, I decided to swear them off because the class feels a little too much like cheating. But since they put a non-optional "Playful Darkness"-level encounter right smack in the middle of chapter, I've decided to revisit that stance. Earth/metal/magma for Deadly Earth that overcomes rare metal DR FTW. Kinetic blast = ranged touch attack, so lots of easy hits for mop up. Passing this along for anyone who feels like rage quitting right before the end. rowdy seems to be the new cheating option not sure if any enemy with wing actually immune the ground effect so kineticist might need wall and cloud too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Achilles Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 2 hours ago, Achilles said: Passing this along for anyone who feels like rage quitting right before the end. To amend my earlier comment, everyone might want to wait for a rebalance tweak before taking off for the final area. TPW in three rounds with the new crew. Again, lots of bugs to be fixed, but no, priority is making act VI encounters harder. "Art and song are creations but so are weapons and lies" "Our worst enemies are inventions of the mind. Pleasure. Fear. When we see them for what they are, we become unstoppable." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longes Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 12 hours ago, Agiel said: From what I've heard on the Discord about the only AP that's not under consideration is <<Reign of Winter>> since Owlcat may run afoul of laws in Russia regarding "unpatriotic sentiments". I'll also point out that "Reign of Winter" is... Well, it's kinda racist. You know how 5e has been trying to get rid of Oriental Adventures type content recently? "Reign of Winter" is like that. It's very much like that. Being Russian, "Reign of Winter" is definitely not something I'd want to adapt or see adapted. Iron Gods would be cool though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromnir Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 30 minutes ago, Longes said: I'll also point out that "Reign of Winter" is... Well, it's kinda racist. please explain. not general and/or vague. be specific. "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longes Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 2 minutes ago, Gromnir said: please explain. not general and/or vague. be specific. I can not be very specific on account of not having the books anymore. The big ones would be turning Rasputin, a real life figure whose history and influence are heavily shrouded by British and Bolshevik propaganda, into a cartoonish evil wizard. Russia is once again a snow-bound freezing wasteland (summers are +40 where I'm from). The visit to Russia in "Rasputin Must Die!" consists largely of slaughtering uncommunicative evil Russians who attack using swarm rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uuuhhii Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 never liked the whole baba yaga in golarion thing but the official ending are putting romanov on the throne of irresen and hope things would be better that make as little sense as the wotr secret ending a lot of adventure path have weak ending but this one stand out as one of the worst Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromnir Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 1 hour ago, Longes said: I can not be very specific on account of not having the books anymore. unfortunate. helps to be specific. regardless, general displeasure with the the depiction o' rasputin in a fantasy offering is unlikely to be deemed racist... and am not sure how snow makes more or less offensive. gonna go out on a limb and am guess you aren't a hellboy fan neither? regardless, racist is one o' those buzzwords which prevents meaningful discussion in most cases, which am suspecting is kinda the point. any predictions on this thread spiraling into the abyss 'cause o' a curious criticism o' a pathfinder module? accuse o' racism is often enough to end a conversation and is all too often the functional death knell for game/movie/tv show development. am wondering if fallout could be made today, and am gonna admit to having been pleasant surprised shadowrun got developed and released. sadly, we got little hope for a future deadlands crpg. too bad. that said, if accusation is pathfinder's rasputin were racist (in part 'cause o' snow in russia) then am done with this sideshow topic, 'cause no good will come o' it. ... converse, if somebody want to talk about why a deadlands crpg needs be made, am 100% all in. HA! Good Fun! "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromnir Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 17 hours ago, Achilles said: To amend my earlier comment, everyone might want to wait for a rebalance tweak before taking off for the final area. TPW in three rounds with the new crew. Again, lots of bugs to be fixed, but no, priority is making act VI encounters harder. managed to convince self to play a bit more, so we got to the fight at the threshold o' the threshold. first time things were going pretty good, or so we thought. had the assassin dead and the vanguard effective neutralized, and then the guy with the lighting unloaded something which had us successful save and take 254 damage. wait, what? second time we focused on killing mr. sparky asap and things went better even if it took a while to finish everything. is nothing creative 'bout the encounter. is three sooperpowered badies and a whole bunch o' mooks. think you gave your party immunity to ability drain and fear? not so fast. does the azata spell which provides immunity to one energy source work 'gainst mr. sparky? we would not be surprised if that were a fail. is gonna be one o' those reload battles for us in the future. if we kill sparky in two rounds, chances are we will be able to beat the encounter... maybe. fail on that means reload. other option we see as viable, sorta the retro bg1 approach, would be the summons route... mindless wear 'em down with summons. oh well. maybe we play again tomorrow. HA! Good Fun! 1 "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Achilles Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 12 minutes ago, Gromnir said: managed to convince self to play a bit more, so we got to the fight at the threshold o' the threshold. first time things were going pretty good, or so we thought. had the assassin dead and the vanguard effective neutralized, and then the guy with the lighting unloaded something which had us successful save and take 254 damage. wait, what? second time we focused on killing mr. sparky asap and things went better even if it took a while to finish everything. is nothing creative 'bout the encounter. is three sooperpowered badies and a whole bunch o' mooks. think you gave your party immunity to ability drain and fear? not so fast. does the azata spell which provides immunity to one energy source work 'gainst mr. sparky? we would not be surprised if that were a fail. is gonna be one o' those reload battles for us in the future. if we kill sparky in two rounds, chances are we will be able to beat the encounter... maybe. fail on that means reload. other option we see as viable, sorta the retro bg1 approach, would be the summons route... mindless wear 'em down with summons. oh well. maybe we play again tomorrow. HA! Good Fun! Ah, I see you met my associates Sidenote for context: during my first pass, there was literally nothing memorable about the encounter, especially in comparison to the others. As you may have deduced from the subtle tone of my previous posts, this "new and improved" user experience is a feature of the latest patch. Had better luck on 2nd try with the new party. Hung back a little, rather than attempt to rush in/engage, and spread my folks out so that they couldn't be taken out all at once. Fear-aura-that-should-be-"immunable"-but-isn't has a range. Found I had a character (melee) that was pretty much useless the entire time (will be Ember or Sosiel with air domain metamagic'd lightning spells next time). Also, shouldn't have to say this, but new rule is TBM for all boss/mini-boss fights. Lastly, please don't judge me too harshly...found out a short while later that mercs don't count as party members unless the PC is leading them. Hope you recruited everyone Owlcat foisted upon you (and that you were generous with their gear). Alas, I somehow ended up with something less than a full complement and resorted to cheating rather than dealing with the drama. "Art and song are creations but so are weapons and lies" "Our worst enemies are inventions of the mind. Pleasure. Fear. When we see them for what they are, we become unstoppable." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitchmartyr Posted October 14, 2021 Share Posted October 14, 2021 A question for all the Demon mythic path players: there's an option to use demon rage in dialogue with Vellexia in act 4. What happens afterwards is like r*pe right? I can't be the only one who saw it :// Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longes Posted October 14, 2021 Share Posted October 14, 2021 (edited) 5 hours ago, bitchmartyr said: A question for all the Demon mythic path players: there's an option to use demon rage in dialogue with Vellexia in act 4. What happens afterwards is like r*pe right? I can't be the only one who saw it :// Yes/no/maybe? Demons do not and can not love the way mortals do, and Arushalae describes all sex involving a demon as an act of cannibalism and fight for dominance. Vellexia is no exception. And that option Spoiler is the only outcome for Vellexia in which she responds positively to you. Every other outcome is either bored dismissal or murder. Fundamentally, that is the mindset that Vellexia and other demons live in. Abyss is classified as Chaotic Evil after all. Edited October 14, 2021 by Longes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uuuhhii Posted October 14, 2021 Share Posted October 14, 2021 11 hours ago, bitchmartyr said: A question for all the Demon mythic path players: there's an option to use demon rage in dialogue with Vellexia in act 4. What happens afterwards is like r*pe right? I can't be the only one who saw it :// it is demon path not surprised there are dv involved Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitchmartyr Posted October 14, 2021 Share Posted October 14, 2021 Yeah but the person who wrote this **** is a human. Somebody sat down and thought "I bet the players would enjoy committing virtual sexual assault, better give them an opportunity to do that! It's absolutely necessary for the story we want to tell and not creepy or insensitive at all" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Achilles Posted October 14, 2021 Share Posted October 14, 2021 22 minutes ago, bitchmartyr said: Yeah but the person who wrote this **** is a human. Somebody sat down and thought "I bet the players would enjoy committing virtual sexual assault, better give them an opportunity to do that! It's absolutely necessary for the story we want to tell and not creepy or insensitive at all" There is a lot explicit, horrific violence in this game. What is the criteria for determining which is ok and which is going too far? 2 "Art and song are creations but so are weapons and lies" "Our worst enemies are inventions of the mind. Pleasure. Fear. When we see them for what they are, we become unstoppable." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromnir Posted October 14, 2021 Share Posted October 14, 2021 13 hours ago, bitchmartyr said: A question for all the Demon mythic path players: there's an option to use demon rage in dialogue with Vellexia in act 4. What happens afterwards is like r*pe right? I can't be the only one who saw it :// am thinking the unfortunate reality is that the most common criticisms is gonna be that whatever owlcat did to make the demon graphic, violent and disquieting, they will have not gone far enough. and please recall, in dragon age 2 there were serious and widespread complaints you were precluded from romancing your sibling. insofar as this kinda subject matter, assume the worst of your fanbase and chances are you are gonna end up giving 'em far too much credit. HA! Good Fun! 1 "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longes Posted October 14, 2021 Share Posted October 14, 2021 6 minutes ago, Gromnir said: am thinking the unfortunate reality is that the most common criticisms is gonna be that whatever owlcat did to make the demon graphic, violent and disquieting, they will have not gone far enough. and please recall, in dragon age 2 there were serious and widespread complaints you were precluded from romancing your sibling. insofar as this kinda subject matter, assume the worst of your fanbase and chances are you are gonna end up giving 'em far too much credit. HA! Good Fun! Creating strawman arguments that the fanbase isn't actually making seems completely unnecessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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