Still can't decide on a build to play for my first and only play through

[Jae Addison]

So I guess I'll try forbidden fist and ascendant than.  Or would soul blade be just as good?

Edited February 19, 2021 by Jae Addison
Added more

[Haplok]

A Soulblade would be different. More melee combat oriented, with far less Cipher power usage. Certainly a much worse fit for the Seeker's Fang rapier. Doesn't mean that it would be bad.

[Boeroer]

When playing Forbidden Fist/Cipher I strongly recommend installing the Community Patch (see my signature). Usually Forbidden Fist (the attack ability) is not tagged as melee weapon attack but as a "melee spell". This means it will NOT generate focus (and besides that it won't work with Swift Flurry and Heartbeat Drumming). Community Patch will fix those two quirks (besides other stuff that improves the game balance without power creep). It also nerfs some broken/overpowered mechanics (like putting a cap of 25 to Resonant Touch etc.).

Without CP your Forbidden Fist will have to use other attacks besides Forbidden Fist if he wants focus. Or pick Beguiler instead of Ascendant or Soulblade. 

Edited February 19, 2021 by Boeroer

[Jayd]

Keep in mind that using mods will disable achievements though.

My bad, looks like I was misinformed.

Edited February 19, 2021 by Jayd

[Boeroer]

Huh? Since when?

You'll get Berath Blessing points with or without mods. Or what kind of achievements are we talking about?

The Ultimate Challenge will disable all mods, but that's something else. 

You won't get BB points when cheating with "iRoll20s" in the console. 

[Not So Clever Hound]

2 hours ago, Boeroer said:

You'll get Berath Blessing points with or without mods.

That's completely true. For what it's worth, from my experience as a player who doesn't usually like mods too much, you can really consider this mod as the final polishing Patch to the game that didn't happen, rather than a typical Mod that tweaks the experience in a certain direction or messes up the balance. It's not the case.

Edited February 19, 2021 by Not So Clever Hound

[Boeroer]

Thank you. Yes, the goal was to not deliver a "moar powa" or be supercool but rather so iron out some of stuff that was left after the final official patch.

I can also recommend the mod "Enhanced UI": https://www.nexusmods.com/pillarsofeternity2/mods/32/
It is very nice, doesn't alter any mechanics at all but only provides some more info and tooltips in a very unobstrusive way. This and the Community Patch are the only ones I use.
 

A nice thing about the CP is that you can easily switch on/of the changes that are listed seperately. You just have to rename the mod files that are well named. For example if you want to switch off the nerf of Resonant Touch you simply rename the according file to "switch_off_<filename>" or whatver and it's deactivated. Thhat way you can enjoy it even if there are some changes you don't agree with.
 

[MaxQuest]

1 hour ago, Boeroer said:

A nice thing about the CP is that you can easily switch on/of the changes that are listed seperately. You just have to rename the mod files that are well named. For example if you want to switch off the nerf of Resonant Touch you simply rename the according file to "switch_off_<filename>" or whatver and it's deactivated. Thhat way you can enjoy it even if there are some changes you don't agree with.

Just wanted to chime in regarding switching off individual changes.

Renaming a gamedatabundle is not enough. The game will still pick-up the data, parse it and apply.

You need to remove the file completely.

 

E.g.: you don't like the change that increases Uncanny Luck hit-to-crit chance from 5% to 10%. In that case:

• you navigate to \override\CommunityPatchBasic\design\gamedata\
• and delete gn.uncanny_luck.gamedatabundle

 

P.S. Renaming strat applies to localization files though.

[Boeroer]

Nope - I renamed the files and it works just fine.

Okay, I should have mentioned that I also rename the file extension. Oops.

I don't like to delete the files because sometimes I want to test stuff with or without mod and deleting/moving files is bothersome then.

[MaxQuest]

Ah, that's an idea)

Changing extension should work indeed 

gn.uncanny_luck.gamedatabundle -> gn.uncanny_luck.gamedatabundle.temp and voila.

[Boeroer]

Yeah!  I also rename the file name because then it's more obvious. I mean visually.

Edited February 19, 2021 by Boeroer

[Jae Addison]

So the forbidden fist/cipher multiclass only works with mods?, cause if that's the case, I can't use mods seeing as I play on console.

[Boeroer]

No, it also works without mods.

The only downside is that when you use the Forbidden Fist ability then you won't get focus from the attack. But you're free to use any other attack in between to gain focus. 

That's why I suggested Forbidden Fist/Beguiler. Beguilers get focus from casting Deceptions on enemies. If you - for example - cast Phantom Foes in a group of enemies you will get a lot of focus. Enough to cast Disintegration next. You don't have to rely on attacks to gain focus. It still works but the focus gain from Deception spells is much better. 

Also: once you are ascended as Ascendant you don't need focus anymore to cast spells like Disintegration. So you could ascend while using normal Monk abilities and then use Forbidden Fist ability + Disintegration during the ascended phase.

It's all ok. It's just so that with Community Patch it would be even better.

[Jae Addison]

Hmm I see, guess I'll go forbidden fist/Ascendant, also is there anyway to counteract the damage taken by forbidden fist, or atleast mitigate it so I don't kill myself?

[Haplok]

Avoid spamming the Fist. Most of the time, you should limit yourself to 1st Tier Curse. And only use it again, once the Curse expires. The self-damage is nearly negligible then (and can even be outhealed by slight heals you get when hostile effects expire - if you have such additional hostile effects (for example from Hylea's Talons) or enemies trying to CC you.

Obviously you want to max Resolve to reduce the duration of hostile effects (particularly Forbidden Curse) as much as possible. Probably also eat food with hostile effect duration reduction (Mohora Wraps are great for a FF!).

 

[Boeroer]

Yes, max RES, +RES items, items and consumables which reduce hostile effect duration (Mohora Wraps, Strand of Favor, Cabalist's Gambeson etc.) and of course your ability Clarity of Agony. Use Psychovampiric Shield to get +5 RES on top of that. It's a great spell to apply before Disintegration anyway (because then the Disintegration will last a lot longer on the enemy).

That way you can also wear Hylea's Talons very safely because the DoT it might put on you will be very short. And you'll get a wound if it expires, too.

The Ring Voidward is also good since it reduces the damage per tick significantly. 

You can pair that with regeneration gear. If you line all that up you can use the Forbidden Fist ability all the time because the curse will often be shorter than your recovery. This leads to very little self damage and lots of wounds. 

 

Edited February 25, 2021 by Boeroer

[dgray62]

Yes, with the right stats and gear you can continually use the Forbidden Fist ability, healing yourself and gaining wounds while you do heavy damage and apply the powerful enfeebled to your foes. Another thing to keep in mind is that Forbidden Fist ability grows in power, gaining more damage, PEN and accuracy via Transcendent Suffering scaling, just like unarmed attacks. Since it scales with PL, anything that boosts your PL helps. Hence for this is a multiclass for which Nature Godlike works very well.

[Boeroer]

Because it's an ability that has its own base damage (your current weapon is not used when executing FF) you can also use Lance of the Midwood Stag in order to get 2 additional power levels via "Lord of the Forest". You'll hold the pike in your hands but you can still use the FF ability and it will still use the Unarmed bonuses and will scle with 2 more PLs.

 

[NotDumbEnough]

You can have some fun with a Priest/Paladin in your party. If your debuffs are suppressed, you accrue more stacks of the FF curse but the cost of using FF doesn't go up until your debuffs come back. You can run around punching people with FF for 0 cost, and when the suppression effect wears off you can immediately have BDD used on yourself.

[Boeroer]

Ha, that's neat.

[thelee]

1 hour ago, NotDumbEnough said:

You can have some fun with a Priest/Paladin in your party. If your debuffs are suppressed, you accrue more stacks of the FF curse but the cost of using FF doesn't go up until your debuffs come back. You can run around punching people with FF for 0 cost, and when the suppression effect wears off you can immediately have BDD used on yourself.

you can also just refresh the suppression effect or extend it with salvation of time if you want to avoid the timing problem.

i never thought of this, but could you do some serious damage like this? or does the damage buff also stay suppressed

Edited February 25, 2021 by thelee

[NotDumbEnough]

You still get a damage bonus of +50%, but no higher. Of course, it's an AL0 ability so you also get lots of power level bonuses out of it. If you don't have the community patch it also has higher pen than normal fist attacks but doesn't benefit from sneak attack, focus gain, etc.

Edited February 25, 2021 by NotDumbEnough

[dgray62]

2 hours ago, NotDumbEnough said:

You can run around punching people with FF for 0 cost, and when the suppression effect wears off you can immediately have BDD used on yourself.

You'd probably need BDD then, since you'd be walloped with a mega spike of raw damage. Or just keep suppressing it as thelee suggests.

 

The nice thing about FF is you get a really combo of defense and offense. Due to your high RES, your deflection is high, and when afflictions land they don't last long, and heal you and give you a wound when they expire. But the FF ability you get a really powerful single target attack which you can use throughout the entire. The cipher multi gives you a great mix of offense and defense as well.

[Boeroer]

Also the combo of Enfeebled + Puppet Master + 10 INT (+ eventually crit) can be really impressive. Punch an enemy and then dominate them. They will be yours for a really(!) long time. At the same time they can't heal and will be no problem once they flip back (and are still alive).

Also Enfeebled+Whispers of Treason and then cast Disintegrate on the charmed enemy works well because Disintegrate will not flip the charmed enemy back to hostile. 

I tried a Forbidden Fist/Beguiler for some time and I really liked the combination of Enfeeblement + Mind Control and that you can just fill you focus up with some Phantom Foes or Secret Horrors at the start of battle. 

[Jae Addison]

Sounds like the perfect blend of melee and caster,also between monk/cipher and monk/wizard which would have a easier time against  all the Megabosses?