Politics US Edition (2021!)

[ComradeYellow]

Trump ending presidency with approval rating at new low in CNN poll | TheHill

Good, now on to Richmond.  Time to squash these bastards so we can work on proper reforms.

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Guard Dog said:

Nah. The corrections are already there for anyone willing.

*proceeds to describe circumstances that are only available to some people*

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as for the spiraling cost of a higher education will have already voiced one idea. I think a university should operate much more like a technical college. And not compel people to pay for classes that are not essential for their field of study.

You've repeated yourself, so I shall repeat myself: the purpose of the university is to hone the mind. A university that does this well is a good university. A university that doesn't do this well is a bad university.

Technical college is technical college. Trade school is trade school.

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Like I said that’s just being generous towards themselves with other peoples money.

That's one take. Another is that they are trying to fulfill their mission of producing educated graduates.

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And making colleges easier to pay for does a poor job of incentivizing colleges to offer their services for less money. It does exactly the opposite. Any higher education will become free as soon as the universities and their professors agree to work for free.

Can't tell whether this is an actual argument or if you were trying to hit some sort of word count.

4 hours ago, Hurlshot said:

I know a number of miserable accountants living in nice houses. My wife and I are in education and can't buy a house, but we do love our jobs. It's a tough trade off.

"The life which men praise and regard as successful is but one kind. Why should we elevate any one at the expense of the others?"

It seems that you picked up on my intended tone above, but just in case it wasn't clear, I think we undervalue teachers. There's no reason the people we trust with our children should have to work two jobs to make ends meet while paying off student loans on a Master's and figuring out how they're going to hit their continuing teacher education credits for the year.

2 hours ago, Gromnir said:

am suspecting debbie and/or the parent will find little solace in being told that the moribund MBAs who current run the business world, themselves a product o' the school of human potential development which reinforces the self-perpetuating truth that you need to go to the best University possible, are too myopic to realize the value o' a good air conditioner repair technician.

Depends on what you mean by "best university possible". I think too many people become fixated on Ivy League or private universities. Public universities are fine. Community college is a smart investment, especially if you don't have a specific major in mind after graduating high school.

But to your point, HVAC school isn't something to be ashamed of either.

To my point, I think a world in which more of the liberal arts that one *should be* exposed to in university setting are transferred to the high school level is a better one. Even if they graduate and go on to vocational school, they've been exposed to the material and can pick it up on their own if they choose to do so.

[Skarpen]

[Guard Dog]

@AchillesThe university is not there to serve the community. It’s selling a service for money. I had a conversation with one of my instructors once. Early on in my education career. I was asking him questions during class about matrices. He started to cop an attitude about answering. I told him there in the class that he appears to be under some kind of misunderstanding about what our relationship is. I told him I hired Miami Dade community college to teach me Calculus. Miami Dade community college assigned the task to him. That is our relationship. College professors are not mentors. They are not there to sharpen minds or enlighten or serving any kind of higher or noble purpose. They’re just people hired to do a job. Grade school teachers do that. Hi school teachers do that. Because they are working with children.  University students are adults. They should be business like enough about what they are doing to not need to be inspired or enlightened. Only instructed.

I suppose you could tell by this one anecdote I shared a fairly caustic relationship with most of my professors.

Edited January 17, 2021 by Guard Dog

[Elerond]

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-mob-capitol/

Updated to note that there is no evidence John Sullivan is associated with antifa or the Black Lives Matter movement.

New York Post also is bit skeptical that Sullivan is part of any movement, but they seem to be quite sure that he isn't part of Antifa 

https://nypost.com/2021/01/15/who-is-john-sullivan-accused-provocateur-charged-in-capitol-riot/

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/does-jade-sacker-work-for-cnn/

Edit: added

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/01/16/sullivan-video-arrested/

 

Edited January 17, 2021 by Elerond

[Maedhros]

A few antifa "members" might have been there to document what's going on, or to stir the pot even. 99% of the ones who stormed the building however were Trump fanatics, there's little doubt about that.

[rjshae]

1 hour ago, Skarpen said:

Except... his reputation is as a bad actor on both sides. Just more misdirection by Fux noise.

[ShadySands]

I'm convinced. One idiot and the whole thing is a conspiracy.

[Hurlshort]

Come on guys, don't pick on Skarpie. They caught the leader of Antifa! This is great news, the movement is probably over now.

Now if they can just round up the leader of the other side, we will be doing great. If only we knew who it is? 

Edited January 17, 2021 by Hurlshot

[Guest]

29 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

@AchillesThe university is not there to serve the community. It’s selling a service for money. I had a conversation with one of my instructors once. Early on in my education career. I was asking him questions during class about matrices. He started to cop an attitude about answering. I told him there in the class that he appears to be under some kind of misunderstanding about what our relationship is. I told him I hired Miami Dade community college to teach me Calculus. Miami Dade community college assigned the task to him. That is our relationship. College professors are not mentors. They are not there to sharpen minds or enlighten or serving any kind of higher or noble purpose. They’re just people hired to do a job. Grade school teachers do that. Hi school teachers do that. Because they are working with children.  University students are adults. They should be business like enough about what they are doing to not need to be inspired or enlightened. Only instructed.

I suppose you could tell by this one anecdote I shared a fairly caustic relationship with most of my professors.

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Vision Statement

The Division of Student Affairs aspires to ignite purpose and passion in our students to become socially responsible and globally engaged leaders. We will challenge ourselves and our students to accept and act upon our responsibility to be role models who learn and act to create meaningful and impactful change at FAU and beyond.

Mission Statement

We create diverse, challenging and transformative environments through our innovative and effective programs, services, and outcomes-based approach to student learning and development. We equip students with necessary tools to achieve academic, personal, and career success.

Sounds like you picked the wrong school to attend. I’ve not an expert on libertarian doctrine, but wouldn’t the “personal responsibility” take be that you own the error rather than bellyache about how the university needs to be more how you want it to be?

Edited January 17, 2021 by Achilles

[Guard Dog]

I didn’t make an error. They are what they are. I attended 3 over the years. MDCC, FAU, and Tennessee State. I didn’t really see much difference between them. I just kind of laugh at the notion that they are some kind of higher purpose institutions or some temple of knowledge or some such. Serve the community? Hardly. They are a business much like any other. Not deserving of special treatment nor consideration. I also scoff at the notion that any one of them is better than any other. The prestige of ivy league exist only in peoples heads. I once told a guy who graduated from Penn I bet he paid too much for his car too. They teach you the exact same math at community colleges as they do at MIT. Only they do it for a fraction of the cost.

by the way, vision statements, slogans, creeds are just words. They don’t obligate anybody to anything. Not impressed 

Edited January 17, 2021 by Guard Dog

[Gorth]

46 minutes ago, Hurlshot said:

Come on guys, don't pick on Skarpie. They caught the leader of Antifa! This is great news, the movement is probably over now.

He  just proved that Trump was the mastermind behind Antifa all along

[Amentep]

11 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

by the way, vision statements, slogans, creeds are just words. They don’t obligate anybody to anything. Not impressed 

As far as I know, having a mission statement is part of accreditation, so i am under the impression that a school is obligated to follow it, lest they want to lose their accreditation. 

Mind you, I've never been high enough to have been involved in that part of an accreditation review. 

[Guest]

20 minutes ago, Amentep said:

As far as I know, having a mission statement is part of accreditation, so i am under the impression that a school is obligated to follow it, lest they want to lose their accreditation. 

Mind you, I've never been high enough to have been involved in that part of an accreditation review. 

This is my understanding as well, though like you, I’ve never been directly involved in the accreditation review.

Also worth noting that public mission has probably been a deciding factor in landmark discrimination cases.

GD is correct to point out that paying for MAT101 at Harvard probably doesn’t net you any strong grasp of algebra than it would at your local community college...but that’s not the point

[Darkpriest]

1 hour ago, Guard Dog said:

I didn’t make an error. They are what they are. I attended 3 over the years. MDCC, FAU, and Tennessee State. I didn’t really see much difference between them. I just kind of laugh at the notion that they are some kind of higher purpose institutions or some temple of knowledge or some such. Serve the community? Hardly. They are a business much like any other. Not deserving of special treatment nor consideration. I also scoff at the notion that any one of them is better than any other. The prestige of ivy league exist only in peoples heads. I once told a guy who graduated from Penn I bet he paid too much for his car too. They teach you the exact same math at community colleges as they do at MIT. Only they do it for a fraction of the cost.

by the way, vision statements, slogans, creeds are just words. They don’t obligate anybody to anything. Not impressed 

Well, there is some value there, labs, equipment and most important, networking. 

However, it seems to me personaly, that a lot of the cost is to upkeep needless overhead and activities. I mean, things like gender studies or diversity officer, or some pompous celebrations/events, hobby clubs, are things you can could safely get rid of and you would not notice a thing in a drop of quality. On the contrary, you would probably see the increase in quality, because the school would focus on its primary role, to give you skillset for the major you picked.

Kind of works in countries that had fast growth and increase in the quality of life. 

 

[Guard Dog]

@Achillesthis conversation reminds me of my favorite scene from Good Will Hunting

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Guard Dog said:

@Achillesthis conversation reminds me of my favorite scene from Good Will Hunting

 

It’s a great scene and one of my favorite movies.

I think if Chucky delivered that monologue rather than Will, and if Matt and Ben hadn’t written it while attending Harvard, I would have no choice but to concede the point.

Which is to say that there’s probably something intellectually risky in pinning your viewpoint to the words of a fictional character crafted by two writers with Ivy League educations

[Guard Dog]

37 minutes ago, Achilles said:

It’s a great scene and one of my favorite movies.

I think if Chucky delivered that monologue rather than Will, and if Matt and Ben hadn’t written it while attending Harvard, I would have no choice but to concede the point.

Which is to say that there’s probably something intellectually risky in pinning your viewpoint to the words of a fictional character crafted by two writers with Ivy League educations

Don’t read in some thing that isn’t there. I wasn’t attempting to make a point with the clip.  The conversation just reminded me of that. 
 

Besides that scene makes more of a point about autodidacts vs formal education. That’s a different conversation altogether. If I had to choose a fictional character who most represented my viewpoint it would not be Will Hunting. More likely Wolf Larsen or maybe John Galt.

Edited January 18, 2021 by Guard Dog

[ComradeYellow]

"Leader of Antifa" like left wing movements are some kind of rigid cultish hierarchy.  But I guess that's the only language the right understands.

Edited January 18, 2021 by ComradeMaster

[BruceVC]

7 hours ago, Skarpen said:

Please do some research before you post things like this

I do think Antifa is responsible for some violence during many BLM protests and at times their is a lack of expected commentary or proper condemnation from  many when their is violence from them. But we must learn to separate things and not practice " whataboutism " 

The violence at the Capitol was not committed by Antifa, it was numerous groups but  many linked to right wing elements and encouraged by Trump. That is who is responsible, not anyone else

You undermine the legitimate argument and concern many of us have  with left-wing violence when you cannot accept and condemn events like the Capitol violence. Lets be consistent 

 

[ComradeYellow]

My favorite one was "The capitol police was ordered by Congress to allow them inside the building and then intentionally turned on them to set the whole thing up in order to clamp down on The Deplorables".

Sometimes reading nonsense from right wing sources is highly amusing, some of the more intelligent ones are very good story tellers.  It's like reading a fine work of Thriller fiction.  Great for entertainment, not to be taken literally or seriously.

[Skarpen]

4 hours ago, BruceVC said:

You undermine the legitimate argument and concern many of us have  with left-wing violence when you cannot accept and condemn events like the Capitol violence. Lets be consistent 

Why are you lying? I'm practically the only one here that consistently condemned both BLM rioting and Capitol attack. All the moralists and "constitutionalists" on their high horses that claimed BLM rioting was a good thing and all they did was excercise their right to protest did completele 180 when it was the other side.

All I did was post an interesting article. I'm relly surprised this aggravated so many of the "tolerant left" here.

Edited January 18, 2021 by Skarpen

[Raithe]

For the twitter quote :

"I would love to go back in time to 1985 and tell someone on the streets of New York that Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger strongly condemned President Donald Trump for leading a coup against the U.S. government."

[Darkpriest]

1 hour ago, Raithe said:

For the twitter quote :

"I would love to go back in time to 1985 and tell someone on the streets of New York that Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger strongly condemned President Donald Trump for leading a coup against the U.S. government."

I laughed a bit too loud, and only because I've just watched Terminator 2: Judgement Day on my Sunday evening back to classics watch list

[Boeroer]

https://conandaily.com/2021/01/14/john-sullivan-biography-13-things-about-insurgence-usa-founder-from-utah/

John Earl Sullivan is an African-American man from Utah, United States. Here are 13 things about him:

1. He lives in Sandy, Salt Lake County, Utah. (a)
2. He is the leader of Insurgence USA. He organizes protests through the organization. (b)
3. A civilian was shot an injured during a protest he organized on June 30, 2020 in Provo, Utah. (b)
4. On July 9, 2020, he was booked into the Utah County Jail for investigation of rioting, making a threat of violence and criminal chief. (a) On July 13, 2020, he was charged with rioting and criminal mischief in Provo. (b)
5. On January 6, 2021, he went to Washington, D.C., USA to attend and film the Stop the Steal march. While he referred to himself as an activist and a journalist, he admitted that he did not have any press credentials. (b)
6. After the Stop the Steal march on January 6, 2021, he wore a ballistic vest and gas mask and entered the U.S. Capitol building in Washington, D.C. along with Donald Trump supporters who breached the building while a joint session of Congress was certifying the vote of the Electoral College and affirming Joe Biden‘s victory in the 2020 presidential election. He was able to film the moment rioter Ashli Babbitt was fatally shot by a U.S. Capitol Police officer inside the building. (b)
7. He was 26 years old when he participated in the U.S. Capitol riot on January 6, 2021. (b)
8. On January 7, 2021, he voluntarily participated in an interview with the Federal Bureau of Investigation special agent in Washington, D.C. (b) After giving interviews to local and national media, he was detained for about 90 minutes in Washington, D.C. (a)
9. On January 9, 2021, he sent to a law enforcement 50-minute video he took within and around the U.S. Capitol on January 6, 2021. At various points in the video, he can be heard saying, “There are so many people. Let’s go. This s**t is ours! F**k yeah,” “We accomplished this s**t. We did this together. F**k yeah! We are all a part of this history” and “Let’s burn this s**t down.” (b)
10. On January 11, 2021, FBI special agent Matthew B. Foulger conducted a voluntary interview with him at his residence. He denied carrying a knife with him when he was inside the U.S. Capitol building on January 6, 2021. (b)
11. Foulger submitted an affidavit in support of a criminal complaint charging him with civil disorders, restricted building or grounds and violent entry or disorderly conduct. The affidavit was assigned to U.S. Magistrate Judge Robin M. Meriweather on January 13, 2021. (b)
12. On January 14, 2021, he was arrested under a U.S. Marshall warrant. He was booked into the Tooele County Sheriff’s Office in Tooele, Utah and charged with civil disorders, restricted building or grounds and violent entry or disorderly conduct.
13. He is expected to appear in court on January 15, 2021.