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https://www.local10.com/news/local/2020/11/11/evidence-suggests-several-state-senate-candidates-were-plants-funded-by-dark-money/?fbclid=IwAR1OsGTEMYlAkqa4G5XyS7_etae87uBp3xBrCgLdBQQ6HelepXasQKMWqUc

This is a pretty kooky story out of Florida. I don't have a lot of sympathy for voters that accidently voted for the wrong candidate based on them having the same name, but it is pretty comical. My guess is they were hoping they were voting for former baseball player A-Rod.

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So I read in three different news sources yesterday that Trump is again asking if the Georgia, Pennsylvania, and Arizona Legislatures (all Republican controlled) could be asked to appoint "loyal electors" and re-elect him in defiance of the state vote. That a US President would even ask that is horrifying. But after four years of this SOB not surprising. 

The latest story is that he will pardon everyone he feels "loyal" to and then resign the office before Jan 20th so a President Pence can pardon him. I've always thought highly of Pence before he became associated with Trump. I always thought he had integrity. As Trump's VP he has a role to play but if he becomes President, even if only a matter of days, that integrity will be put to the test. I hope he passes, issues no pardons, and heads off into the retirement he was planning before he became Trump's running mate. He owes Trump nothing and Trump surely deserves nothing. 

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"The man of virtuous soul commands not, nor obeys. Power, like a desolating pestilence, pollutes whate'er it touches; and obedience, bane of all genius, virtue, freedom, truth, makes slaves of men, and of the human frame a mechanized automaton."

P.B. Shelley

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22 minutes ago, Hurlshot said:

https://www.local10.com/news/local/2020/11/11/evidence-suggests-several-state-senate-candidates-were-plants-funded-by-dark-money/?fbclid=IwAR1OsGTEMYlAkqa4G5XyS7_etae87uBp3xBrCgLdBQQ6HelepXasQKMWqUc

This is a pretty kooky story out of Florida. I don't have a lot of sympathy for voters that accidently voted for the wrong candidate based on them having the same name, but it is pretty comical. My guess is they were hoping they were voting for former baseball player A-Rod.

Wasn't there an Eddie Murphy movie where he gets elected like that?

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1 hour ago, Guard Dog said:

So I read in three different news sources yesterday that Trump is again asking if the Georgia, Pennsylvania, and Arizona Legislatures (all Republican controlled) could be asked to appoint "loyal electors" and re-elect him in defiance of the state vote. That a US President would even ask that is horrifying. But after four years of this SOB not surprising. 

The latest story is that he will pardon everyone he feels "loyal" to and then resign the office before Jan 20th so a President Pence can pardon him. I've always thought highly of Pence before he became associated with Trump. I always thought he had integrity. As Trump's VP he has a role to play but if he becomes President, even if only a matter of days, that integrity will be put to the test. I hope he passes, issues no pardons, and heads off into the retirement he was planning before he became Trump's running mate. He owes Trump nothing and Trump surely deserves nothing. 

This story is making  me feel very nervous for some reason that and  is a little confusing because I am missing something ?

What would Pence pardon Trump for? Also what is the purpose of the a new " loyal electors vote "
, could this somehow swing these states to the Republican side .....that would surly undermine the sacrosanct purpose of a persons right to select a candidate through the normal vote ?

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

 

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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12 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

This story is making  me feel very nervous for some reason that and  is a little confusing because I am missing something ?

What would Pence pardon Trump for? Also what is the purpose of the a new " loyal electors vote "
, could this somehow swing these states to the Republican side .....that would surly undermine the sacrosanct purpose of a persons right to select a candidate through the normal vote ?

Electors are chose by the state legislature. They are pledged to vote for the winner of the Presidential election of that state. But the state legislature is not legally beholden to the outcome of the election. They could, theoretically, go another way. It has never been done to my knowledge and is as near unthinkable as it gets in American politics. Not the least of which they know torches and pitchforks will follow. And what President would even want to be in office under such a cloud? Prior to this one I'd have said "none".

There have been instances of "faithless electors" who went rouge and voted how they liked. In fact in 2016 Democrats were begging for Republican electors to install Hillary. But what Trump is doing is so much worse. This isn't people asking for a favor. This is a President discussion collaborating with a Legislature to take power unelected. Like I said. Horrifying.

Incidentally many states are passing laws to prevent faithless electors. The Supreme Court has already said this is OK. I agree.

 

As for what kind of a pardon Trump might be hoping for, there are still numerous court cases. some with criminal implications, going against him. But what he really fears I think is IRS trouble and things that may come to light after he is gone. 

Edited by Guard Dog
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"The man of virtuous soul commands not, nor obeys. Power, like a desolating pestilence, pollutes whate'er it touches; and obedience, bane of all genius, virtue, freedom, truth, makes slaves of men, and of the human frame a mechanized automaton."

P.B. Shelley

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3 hours ago, Hurlshot said:

https://www.local10.com/news/local/2020/11/11/evidence-suggests-several-state-senate-candidates-were-plants-funded-by-dark-money/?fbclid=IwAR1OsGTEMYlAkqa4G5XyS7_etae87uBp3xBrCgLdBQQ6HelepXasQKMWqUc

This is a pretty kooky story out of Florida. I don't have a lot of sympathy for voters that accidently voted for the wrong candidate based on them having the same name, but it is pretty comical. My guess is they were hoping they were voting for former baseball player A-Rod.

welcome to america.

North Dakota state legislature candidate who died of COVID-19 apparently won his election

Sen.-elect Tommy Tuberville botches history facts, including three branches of government

“Our government wasn’t set up for one group to have all three branches of government — wasn’t set up that way,” Tuberville continued, saying incorrectly: “You know, the House, the Senate, and the executive.”

...

Tuberville also misidentified what America fought against in World War II. When asked about the biggest takeaways from the election, Tuberville stated he was concerned that President-elect Joe Biden had promoted a vision that Tuberville claimed “leads more to a socialist type of government.”

“That’s concerning to me, that we’re to the point now where we’ve got almost half the country voting for something that this country wasn’t built on,” Tuberville said. “I tell people, my dad fought 76 years ago in Europe to free Europe of socialism.”

Jared Kushner insists Trump can still win if his parents make a big enough donation to the Electoral College

the last article we linked were intended as a joke article, but more fool is us for not recognizing how the real joke is on the american people for not recognizing en masse that trump would actual attempt to undermine the electoral college if his campaign and subsequent legal efforts failed to win him an additional four years.

keep in mind if any of trump's legal claims thus far appeared to be legit or have any serious chance o' changing the election results, we would advise caution. recall how after many police shootings we advise caution. is best to wait for more information when facts is in short supply. however, current situation is not trump advancing his reasonable and credible claims in an effort to maintain the dignity and accuracy o' this and future elections. unlike all o' trump's slapp lawsuits over the decades, state and fed Courts is not gonna cave to trump 'cause o' fatigue or financial inability to maintain a prolonged legal battle. 

HA! Good Fun!

"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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LOL! This is why the American government needs to be small enough to drown in a bucket if needs be! Because of the jackasses that end up running it

"The man of virtuous soul commands not, nor obeys. Power, like a desolating pestilence, pollutes whate'er it touches; and obedience, bane of all genius, virtue, freedom, truth, makes slaves of men, and of the human frame a mechanized automaton."

P.B. Shelley

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tommy tuberville, the senator-elect from alabama who is unable to identify the three branches o' US fed government, unsurprising is confused 'bout the legality o' soliciting campaign donations on fed property.

TCS: You gonna go campaign in Georgia, help them out? 

CTT: Oh, yeah. I’ll go over there at least a week or two and campaign myself, along with a lot of people in my former campaign staff. We’re raising money for them, the whole caucus is. You know, I had my first caucus meeting yesterday and Vice President Pence was there and spoke to us about the next two months. I got to get up and introduce myself and tell everybody, you know, why I’m here and what I want try to get done. It was very good, had a lot of good reception. Of course, setting up an office to work. Right now, it’s a temporary office. Now, it is five rooms, it’s huge, there in the Dirksen Building. But it’s something that gives you somewhere to work out of, whether it’s interviewing, whether it’s fundraising like we’ll do for Georgia. It gives you a place to work. So, anyway, I got it up and running and I got a couple on my transition team that are going to be on my staff at some level once we get this thing going full speed. But they’re all setting it up. I’m back in Auburn today and I’ll be back there most of next week handling all the major interviews for the top-tier positions. 

...

this kinda thing is not a grey area as far as illegal is concerned. 

HA! Good Fun!

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"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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1 hour ago, Guard Dog said:

LOL! This is why the American government needs to be small enough to drown in a bucket if needs be! Because of the jackasses that end up running it

And let free market competition govern society, correct?

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"America would be unrecognizable if it had ordered the separation of corporation and state like it orders separation of church and state."

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19 minutes ago, ComradeMaster said:

And let free market competition govern society, correct?

Correct. Without all that pesky gobermint oversight, we can go back to finding **** in our food and poison in our "medicine", just how god intended. On the bright side, I'm sure some entrepreneurial libertarians are standing by, waiting to sell us testing kits so that we can spend all those hours we used to waste on things like sleeping ensuring that we don't accidentally kill our own family members. And then, obviously, when some percentage of our neighbors die because some bad actor intentionally sold worthless goods, the surviving family members can drop all their other responsibilities and aspirations to chase down said bad actor for a heaping dose of mob justice.

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"Art and song are creations but so are weapons and lies"

"Our worst enemies are inventions of the mind. Pleasure. Fear. When we see them for what they are, we become unstoppable."

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8 hours ago, Guard Dog said:

So I read in three different news sources yesterday that Trump is again asking if the Georgia, Pennsylvania, and Arizona Legislatures (all Republican controlled) could be asked to appoint "loyal electors" and re-elect him in defiance of the state vote. That a US President would even ask that is horrifying. But after four years of this SOB not surprising. 

Yes, the selected electors for all three states are voted for on election day, so no I believe the respective legislatures can't change them. The fact that Trump had no compunction against asking this makes his removal from power all the more worthwhile.

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10 hours ago, Guard Dog said:

So I read in three different news sources yesterday that Trump is again asking if the Georgia, Pennsylvania, and Arizona Legislatures (all Republican controlled) could be asked to appoint "loyal electors" and re-elect him in defiance of the state vote. That a US President would even ask that is horrifying. But after four years of this SOB not surprising. 

The latest story is that he will pardon everyone he feels "loyal" to and then resign the office before Jan 20th so a President Pence can pardon him. I've always thought highly of Pence before he became associated with Trump. I always thought he had integrity. As Trump's VP he has a role to play but if he becomes President, even if only a matter of days, that integrity will be put to the test. I hope he passes, issues no pardons, and heads off into the retirement he was planning before he became Trump's running mate. He owes Trump nothing and Trump surely deserves nothing. 

Speaking of Pence: Mike Pence suggests the Trump administration will be in place for four more years despite Biden victory: 'That's the plan' :p

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Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.

 

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As concerning is Trump's suggestions of a coup are, the almost certainty of many people supporting it on facing no real consequences is probably more cause for worry.

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"I am the expert, asshat." - Hurlshot

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2 minutes ago, KaineParker said:

As concerning is Trump's suggestions of a coup are, the almost certainty of many people supporting it on facing no real consequences is probably more cause for worry.

Well it's not like the U.S. was 100% a free and democratic society even before Trump so fretting over electoral conclusions is such a misnomer.  Watch Biden turn into Trump within a few months of taking office.  Only scarier is that he has the mainstream media on his side covering up his vile racist actions.

Change comes from the ground up, not vice versa.

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"America would be unrecognizable if it had ordered the separation of corporation and state like it orders separation of church and state."

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https://arizona.vote/ballot-progress.html

0 ballots left to count.

JXHN2YXMSYZQBPORPCDFTOO76A.gif&w=916

more bad legal news for trump, and not even election related.

Federal judge invalidates DACA suspension

Driving the news: Wolf issued a memo in late July that said DHS would no longer accept new DACA applications and would limit renewals, pending a review of the program. The move came despite the June Supreme Court ruling that said the Trump administration violated federal law when it ended the program, which offers protections from deportation for roughly 649,000 immigrants brought to the U.S. illegally as children.

judge garaufus was not amused.

the wolf memo goes in the round file.

particular noteworthy were footnote 11:

"because the court finds the gaynor order had no legal effect, it does not find it significant that the government is now confused as to whether the order was issued after mr. wolf was nominated to be secretary on september 10, 2020-as it originally claimed-or before. the court wishes the government well in trying to find its way out of this self-made thicket."

tenor.gif

HA! Good Fun!

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"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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3 hours ago, Gromnir said:

https://arizona.vote/ballot-progress.html

0 ballots left to count.

JXHN2YXMSYZQBPORPCDFTOO76A.gif&w=916

more bad legal news for trump, and not even election related.

Federal judge invalidates DACA suspension

Driving the news: Wolf issued a memo in late July that said DHS would no longer accept new DACA applications and would limit renewals, pending a review of the program. The move came despite the June Supreme Court ruling that said the Trump administration violated federal law when it ended the program, which offers protections from deportation for roughly 649,000 immigrants brought to the U.S. illegally as children.

judge garaufus was not amused.

the wolf memo goes in the round file.

particular noteworthy were footnote 11:

"because the court finds the gaynor order had no legal effect, it does not find it significant that the government is now confused as to whether the order was issued after mr. wolf was nominated to be secretary on september 10, 2020-as it originally claimed-or before. the court wishes the government well in trying to find its way out of this self-made thicket."

tenor.gif

HA! Good Fun!

Okay that is a surprise. I found Chad Wolf to make some good points  but these rulings may prove that he made certain unlawful decisions

Here is a question, going forward when children arrive without papers on the border does this mean the US has to make them citizens or do they get a form of temporary citizenship?

And if these children are not deported who would pay to take care of them because if they have no parents where do they live going forward?

Its one of these illegal immigration developments that we dont even see in SA, we have millions of illegal immigrants but they survive and live in the informal sector and  they have there own support structures funded outside the state . So we cannot stop them legally. But saying all that I have never heard of children just arriving by themselves ....that is unique 

Edited by BruceVC

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

 

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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8 hours ago, rjshae said:

Yes, the selected electors for all three states are voted for on election day, so no I believe the respective legislatures can't change them. The fact that Trump had no compunction against asking this makes his removal from power all the more worthwhile.

The US system with electors is flawed in many ways, but I hadn't really given this aspect much thought. A ruthless president could very well use his power and dubious connections to put extreme pressure on an number of electors, working like a mafia boss, threatening them and their families to change their votes. Has anything like this ever happened over the pond? My guess is no, since we would have heard about it, or perhaps it's ancient history.

*** "The words of someone who feels ever more the ent among saplings when playing CRPGs" ***

 

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The double standard is strong in Democrats:

Joe Biden claiming he will not concede untill all votes are counted and all legal options are used - great.

Donald Trump not conceding untill all votes are counted and all legal options are used - bad.

Democrats literally begging electors to chose Clinton - great.

Trump allegedly begging electors to chose him - bad.

This could go on and on. Americans should chose a standard and stick with it regardless of who is soing the deed.

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1 hour ago, Skarpen said:

The double standard is strong in Democrats:

Joe Biden claiming he will not concede untill all votes are counted and all legal options are used - great.

Donald Trump not conceding untill all votes are counted and all legal options are used - bad.

Can you point me to a link where the election had been called in favour of Donald Trump and Joe Biden said that he wouldn't concede, that in fact the Republicans had tried to steal the election, but that if you ignored all the illegal ballots that in fact he, Joe Biden, was the winner?

 

Because otherwise, I feel like maybe the situations you're describing are way less similar than you are making out here.

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1 hour ago, Chairchucker said:

Can you point me to a link where the election had been called in favour of Donald Trump and Joe Biden said that he wouldn't concede, that in fact the Republicans had tried to steal the election, but that if you ignored all the illegal ballots that in fact he, Joe Biden, was the winner?

Because otherwise, I feel like maybe the situations you're describing are way less similar than you are making out here.

Have you been asleep or otherwise incapacitated for the last 4 years? 

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9 hours ago, Skarpen said:

The double standard is strong in Democrats:

Joe Biden claiming he will not concede untill all votes are counted and all legal options are used - great.

Donald Trump not conceding untill all votes are counted and all legal options are used - bad.

Democrats literally begging electors to chose Clinton - great.

Trump allegedly begging electors to chose him - bad.

This could go on and on. Americans should chose a standard and stick with it regardless of who is soing the deed.

Citations are needed.

"My hovercraft is full of eels!" - Hungarian tourist
I am Dan Quayle of the Romans.
I want to tattoo a map of the Netherlands on my nether lands.
Heja Sverige!!
Everyone should cuffawkle more.
The wrench is your friend. :bat:

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Guys, if it is at all possible, when you respond to characters as above, could you please use an @(name) instead of quoting them? I really don't enjoy accidentally reading characters' posts, I have this whole ignore list + uBlock Origin filter thing going for a reason, and...well, wait, maybe I can figure out a way to get uBlock to filter out even just quotes.

Oh yeah, look at that, that's a beauty - automatically strips posts of quotes from certain characters as if they don't exist. This is the life, I tell you.

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Put fascists and sociopaths on your ignore list.

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Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.

 

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6 minutes ago, HoonDing said:

There's not a single Republican who was elected without cheating. They're truly despicable people.

Greasy money slimeballs.

Really shows a moral deficiency to proudly declare yourself a Republican this day and age.

We need a left-wing 3rd Party like ASAP because I'm not 100% with the Reagan inspired Neolibcon-Democrats either, by any stretch.

Unfortunately lingering Bernie supporters are very slow to accept the fact that he's not going to do diddly squat in a party that's all but abandoned leftism.

What I knew 5 years ago perfectly still doesn't seem to register, start locally organizing and get 3rd parties elected then work your way up.

/minirantover

"America would be unrecognizable if it had ordered the separation of corporation and state like it orders separation of church and state."

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