Politics - wait for it... wait for it... 2020 isn't over yet

[Malcador]

3 minutes ago, Hurlshot said:

Whatever, baseball is better than soccer. 

As a soporific, sure!

 

 

[Skarpen]

15 minutes ago, Hurlshot said:

Whatever, baseball is better than soccer. 

What the heck is soccer?

[Malcador]

2 minutes ago, Skarpen said:

What the heck is soccer?

[Hurlshort]

Huh, didn't realize Ireland uses Soccer.

[majestic]

45 minutes ago, Hurlshot said:

Whatever, baseball is better than soccer. 

See, that's Hurl immediately disproving that he's an overeducated Gen-Xer. No refinement there folks.

(and no offense meant, promise! Not against Hurlshot anyway. Baseball not so much. Or at all.)

[Malcador]

9 minutes ago, Hurlshot said:

Huh, didn't realize Ireland uses Soccer.

Football's already taken there - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaelic_football

 

[BruceVC]

21 hours ago, MedicineDan said:

I missed the confusion.  I prefer my ideas to be the point rather than my personality, but apparently the way I post is somehow *just* distinctive enough that various people recognize me, which is too bad.  I want to have the give and take of ideas but kind of at the outside rather than in the middle.  Anyhow, I was getting the impression that some people were mightily irritated with me, including someone for whom I have quite a bit of respect, and so here I am, stuck with the worst user name evar.  I know my opinions are not always popular, but they are always sincere.  I have no problem being associated with someone else.  It would be wildly perverse if I did, considering my history.  Enough about me except to say that I *am* indeed a real person and some folks around here have even met me.  I'm in pretty regular contact with one of them.

Mal asked for an example of something and I can't remember what.  I *think* it was about Biden being fake.  I'm actually not sure if he is being fake.  Biden has made himself an irrelevancy by admitting he's merely a transitional figure. I actually doubt he makes it through a first term if he wins. His candidacy, however, while trying to appeal to a sense of normalcy, is a cover as it seems to me.  I believe the left exemplifies something I believe Voltaire said.  It goes something like this, I think...?  "Some men employ words for the sole purpose to disguise their thoughts."

Grom and Hurlshot had points I thought I might address, but I don't have time to go back and find them.  Anyhow, the Blood War can continue without me providing one more victim for the moment.  I'll come scrap with people later.

But Dan  I had no idea you were also Cant because I am not convinced or uncertain how true it is that there are  members who have different Alts because sometimes members assume people use different alts when its not proven

I have been on several occasions , in the past, been accused of being different people and it always confused me why anyone would think I would pretend to be someone else because my views are based on historical precedence and the actual reality of the world....of course sometimes I have been wrong but not about normal views I have about the importance of the USA in the objective of making the world a better place where Democrat principles are recognized  by all...and sometimes this requires military intervention in certain conflicts

And the recent history of the utter disaster of Syria demonstrates what happens when the USA doesn't get involved  ...so we must be realistic about the importance of the USA without being seen as jingoist or interfering in other  countries affairs unnecessarily.

But I remember when I first chatted to you as Cant, I had just been to Las Vegas and you mentioned you use to work there and that lady use to wave at you outside the office....as far as I remember 

I also liked you as Dan because you had such a interesting job, the work you do as nurse matters. So I have always enjoyed chatting to you on numerous topics

Have you decided who you want to vote for? I must add something you and Gromnir were debating, you cant really blame Trump for the virus spread in the Southern because the governors made the final judgement and they did explicitly set the correct virus rules and opened all  bars and establishments. The true spread reason falls on them and the actual reality is on the actual individual for ignoring the obvious measures that cause virus spread

If we blame Trump for the horrendous second wave than we absolve the obvious responsibility of taking account for your own actions from individuals. But also Trump has never been an expert on the virus, he constantly misunderstand certain fundamentals of how the virus operates. But that shouldn't  be a issue for any Trump supporter  because that is not why most people support Trump, end of the day you know why you voted for him and it wasnt because his knowledge of this type of science was relevant ?

 

 

 

[Volourn]

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/newspolitics/kentucky-ag-pitches-president-trump-as-best-for-this-country-amid-racial-strife/ar-BB18t4vZ?li=AAggFp5

 

Oops. Poor Biden the Racist. Even his vice president agrees - Biden is a racist.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Biden should only debate Trump if they both agree to stop taking their meds for a week so we get the full view of how some dementia addled old men act when they aren't hopped up on pills.

[HoonDing]

Imagine being a medical professional and voting for someone who suggests injecting bleach

 

Reminds me of that geography professor who was a flat earther

[MedicineDan]

Hey @BruceVC, I wanted to answer you quickly because, heaven knows, I'll forget if I don't.  lol  I don't want to make this about me.  I will say that it's ironic that people have accused, say, Captain Corcoran of being you.  lol  I don't know if you're an alt or not.  You've always been friendly to me, Bruce.  I even tried to sound more British once and you saw through that.  What can I say?  I'm a weird guy.  :rueful grin:

I find it interesting to discuss politics here, but it's also frustrating in that sometime people think I'm pushing a position when I'm making an argument.  Don't get me wrong.  I have convictions and I'll follow them.  I'm voting for Trump. When it came time for Hillary, I didn't think she was any better of a human being, although with different foibles.  So, why would I vote for someone with a different policy position?  Because I doubt his character?  I doubted hers!  I never had personal animosity, I just thought she was crooked as a dog's hind leg.  It's different now.  I know people say that Biden is a Trojan horse for socialism.  I think socialism would be disastrous, but that's a policy position and I would simply be against it.  I wouldn't view it as existential.  Biden won't usher in socialism.  He will usher in chaos.  I'm not saying that all people who will vote for Biden are lefty extremists who want to punish political foes, try to get them fired from their jobs, silence their voices, and take away their freedoms.  Yeah, I know... "no one is saying that!"  Well, at least some of Biden's supporters are explicitly saying that, and not just the tiny fringe.  ...And it's not even as if the leftists who support this wave of destruction will benefit.  As predicted and already happening, the movement will eat its own.  Bezos, for crying out loud, has people protesting and bringing a mock guillotine to his house.  How many business with "Black Lives Matter" posted have been pillaged and burned?  So, yeah, I have a position.  Never pretended otherwise.

However, when I talk about polling and whatnot, folks treat that as if it's a larger argument for a position, but it's not.  I think it was either Grom or Hurlshot who took me to task for making observations about the 2016 polls.  Fair enough, but I'm not a poll denier.  I think they've become a kind of tool to push voting blocks one way or another, but legitimate pollsters can't be blindly partisan in what they publish because people won't trust them at all if they're *always* wrong.  It's just hard to get a good read much of the time and it becomes harder when folks are scared to answer honestly.  Trump has the same problem Obama had in that they can't really influence a ticket much if they're not personally on it.

Here is a statement of fact:  people like me are an extremely small portion of the Trump coalition, but he simply cannot win without us.  I'm not personally going to budge, but the left needs to push out their own crazy-assed base and then pick off as many people like me who hate the guy.  I'm going to try to get as many fence sitters as I can to realize that this is the line now.  If we can't get back to a semblance of normalcy, and Biden does *not* represent that, then we better have our people in office when we finally shed the last pretense.  Trump's foibles are largely personal and unseemly, but, for all his bluster, he really follows more or less regular policy.  Yeah, there are irregularities, but he's pretty much just a loud-mouth.  His aids manage to stop him from acting out his worst inclinations.  Biden, by all counts, is a nice enough guy, but the forces behind him... oh Lord, the forces behind him!

Anyhow, I thought it would be rude not to respond to a heartfelt post, but I think I want to read this thread.  I actually find it more entertaining to read a lot of them time than play in it.  :wry grin:

[BruceVC]

16 minutes ago, MedicineDan said:

Hey @BruceVC, I wanted to answer you quickly because, heaven knows, I'll forget if I don't.  lol  I don't want to make this about me.  I will say that it's ironic that people have accused, say, Captain Corcoran of being you.  lol  I don't know if you're an alt or not.  You've always been friendly to me, Bruce.  I even tried to sound more British once and you saw through that.  What can I say?  I'm a weird guy.  :rueful grin:

I find it interesting to discuss politics here, but it's also frustrating in that sometime people think I'm pushing a position when I'm making an argument.  Don't get me wrong.  I have convictions and I'll follow them.  I'm voting for Trump. When it came time for Hillary, I didn't think she was any better of a human being, although with different foibles.  So, why would I vote for someone with a different policy position?  Because I doubt his character?  I doubted hers!  I never had personal animosity, I just thought she was crooked as a dog's hind leg.  It's different now.  I know people say that Biden is a Trojan horse for socialism.  I think socialism would be disastrous, but that's a policy position and I would simply be against it.  I wouldn't view it as existential.  Biden won't usher in socialism.  He will usher in chaos.  I'm not saying that all people who will vote for Biden are lefty extremists who want to punish political foes, try to get them fired from their jobs, silence their voices, and take away their freedoms.  Yeah, I know... "no one is saying that!"  Well, at least some of Biden's supporters are explicitly saying that, and not just the tiny fringe.  ...And it's not even as if the leftists who support this wave of destruction will benefit.  As predicted and already happening, the movement will eat its own.  Bezos, for crying out loud, has people protesting and bringing a mock guillotine to his house.  How many business with "Black Lives Matter" posted have been pillaged and burned?  So, yeah, I have a position.  Never pretended otherwise.

However, when I talk about polling and whatnot, folks treat that as if it's a larger argument for a position, but it's not.  I think it was either Grom or Hurlshot who took me to task for making observations about the 2016 polls.  Fair enough, but I'm not a poll denier.  I think they've become a kind of tool to push voting blocks one way or another, but legitimate pollsters can't be blindly partisan in what they publish because people won't trust them at all if they're *always* wrong.  It's just hard to get a good read much of the time and it becomes harder when folks are scared to answer honestly.  Trump has the same problem Obama had in that they can't really influence a ticket much if they're not personally on it.

Here is a statement of fact:  people like me are an extremely small portion of the Trump coalition, but he simply cannot win without us.  I'm not personally going to budge, but the left needs to push out their own crazy-assed base and then pick off as many people like me who hate the guy.  I'm going to try to get as many fence sitters as I can to realize that this is the line now.  If we can't get back to a semblance of normalcy, and Biden does *not* represent that, then we better have our people in office when we finally shed the last pretense.  Trump's foibles are largely personal and unseemly, but, for all his bluster, he really follows more or less regular policy.  Yeah, there are irregularities, but he's pretty much just a loud-mouth.  His aids manage to stop him from acting out his worst inclinations.  Biden, by all counts, is a nice enough guy, but the forces behind him... oh Lord, the forces behind him!

Anyhow, I thought it would be rude not to respond to a heartfelt post, but I think I want to read this thread.  I actually find it more entertaining to read a lot of them time than play in it.  :wry grin:

Thanks for this sharing, this post has been very informative and you have raised some points that were what I wanted to ask and its exactly what you represent as voting demographic, yes I remember Captain, He was a good guy and we got on well but we had very different views on the importance of the free market and he believed in a more socialist reality that would benefit all of society in a way that address inequality.  And I understand the sentiment but I have several concerns around how you can address " inequality " in a way that is sustainable ....I am wary that these campaigns end up wanting to penalize banks and try to tax people who seem to have more money and that can be very unhelpful to overall economic transformation. 

I dont believe Biden will change to  far left but there is a concern I cannot ignore because I have a strange outcome that Biden could do something that is similar ......I just have a strange feeling 

What concerns me most is what I still  see from BLM extremist comments and it has a direct impact to South Africa and UK which I have direct links to and coincidentally  the US narrative bleeds into our narrative ....and we should not be concerned with BLM views because of our real problems not related to anything related to BLM

Finally if Trump is going to lose it should have been without the virus impact and made in a normal voting environment because now its not necessarily for the right reason which is Americans deciding outside negative influences which is basically about the virus and lockdown economic impact

Oh and dont read too much into Gromnirs pugnacious posts, when it comes to certain realities he will always argue the facts and he is right about these things. Its not personal but remember he thinks like a lawyer so you know he will back what he says by real data but end of  the Trump won because of the support he got by choices Americans made which is exactly how the Democracy works ....which brings me to my final question. What were the reasons last time you voted for Trump?

[Guard Dog]

7 hours ago, Malcador said:

I dunno, even Trump rambling on for an hour has to be better than soccer. 

Fixed your typo! 

Edit: @Hurlshot beat me to it I see! 

Edited August 28, 2020 by Guard Dog

[Guard Dog]

Chelsea Clinton says she wants her 'white children of privilege' to 'erode that privilege

I call BS. She could erode their "privilege" right now. Sell everything you have, take all your money and donate it to charity, go pay rent in a run down apartment is some sh--ty suburb and get a job at Dollar General. Put your kids in public schools, charge up your credit cards because your basic expenses exceed your income and die young and in debt.  See, privilege is gone and you are living the dream. No doubt her hids will thank her for eroding their privilege. 

[Guard Dog]

Double post for some reason or another

Edited August 28, 2020 by Guard Dog

[Malcador]

32 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

Chelsea Clinton says she wants her 'white children of privilege' to 'erode that privilege

I call BS. She could erode their "privilege" right now. Sell everything you have, take all your money and donate it to charity, go pay rent in a run down apartment is some sh--ty suburb and get a job at Dollar General. Put your kids in public schools, charge up your credit cards because your basic expenses exceed your income and die young and in debt.  See, privilege is gone and you are living the dream. No doubt her hids will thank her for eroding their privilege. 

Not quite sure the privelge is really undone by that, but she seems to saying she'll encourage them to take crabs out, rather than jump in the bucket.

 

INB4 Volo calls her racist Nazi.

[HoonDing]

free lunch is over for whitey

[Volourn]

Espicially 5 year old boys murdered by BLM.  Damn evil 5 year old boys and their privledge.

[Gromnir]

5 hours ago, MedicineDan said:

stuff

ok. where to start unpacking the hypocrisy...

if chaos is a legit concern, there is no way you voted trump instead o' hillary. calling shenanigans. hillary was, for better or worse, establishment. she were the devil you know as 'posed to the one you woulda' known if you bothered to look a bit closer. hillary woulda' brought more bill clinton era  nonsense, which we personal abhor, but is difficult to describe as chaotic. 

afeared o' chaos? have you not been paying attention to the last four years? trump did an end-around on Congress to fund a pointless border wall (the vast majority o' illegals is visa overstays, and the illegals who do come across the border overwhelming do so at points of entry... not to mention illegal immigration had been steadily decreasing for decades... until trump brought chaos to south america that is) with pentagon discretionary money meant for rebuilding crumbling levees and hurricane damaged military base housing and schools... and that were after he impotent shut down the government costing the country many billions o' dollars. the obstruction o' justice examples we could provide is now beyond counting, but am gonna once again single out how trump attempted to block the submission o' an IG report demanded by law.  wtf? more recent he has sent fed troops to states w/o their approval and arrested protesters w/o charges or even probable cause. oh, and speaking o' chaos...

social distanced and all wearing masks where unable to social distance, yes? 

@HoonDing gots you pegged. 

trump, in addition to the brazen hatch act violation, had a crowd o' folks not social distanced cheering his mendacity on the wh lawn.  guy who suggested looking into bleach injection and internal illumination o' the human body to purge covid-19 infections advocated hydroxy w/o any real science to back him up, causing a shortage (chaos) for those patients who depend on the medication... patients particular vulnerable to diseases such as covid-19 btw. the President has public ridiculed and undercut the scientists on his own covid-19 task force, leading to confusion/chaos and he pretty much took a hands off approach to the virus after his early bs google website  lies and the kushner led supply chain initiative imploded, leaving states to compete with each other for ppe and limited supplies... supplies which were more likely to come if a governor agreed to the wh demands that they public compliment the President. etc.

not enough? we can go back to all the iran, north korea and china stories from the past near four years and examine how many times trump did a 180, or caught his own advisors complete off guard. our allies laugh at trump at parties while simultaneous express concern 'bout how unhinged he is. chaos.

oh and am sympathizing with your mistake in believing trump were less skeevy than clinton... if you didn't bother to read stories or watch news or read the depositions where trump lied and lied and lied...

but yeah, hillary were corrupt and near as big a liar as trump... but that were four years ago, yes? bring up hillary corruptness now is a transparent effort to convince yourself and not Gromnir. you gotta deal with the fact you voted for the pu$$y grab candidate who attacked gold star families, mocked the disabled, cheated on his wives, stole from charities, lied in depositions, defrauded trump U students and, God help us, promised a Muslim Ban. you voted for a candidate for President who advocated a Muslim Ban? 

muslim ban.

two words which shoulda' prevented any American from voting for trump, particularly if they is persons o' conscience. 

muslim ban.

you were tested. hillary were a terrible alternative, and so you were given a choice 'tween an agent o' chaos who told you what you wanted to hear, or a corrupt but predictable beltway insider. you invited chaos. you embraced chaos and you got no excuse 'cause you voted for the guy who promised a muslim ban. 

if muslim ban were not a red line for you, then we have no possibility for common ground.

am genuine embarrassed that Americans elected trump. weren't the thousands o' lies. weren't the soullessness. weren't the ignorance o' the office o' the Presidency. we woulda' grumbled if trump were elected and he were nothing but a two-bit huckster who managed to con just enough gullible americans to not vote for hillary, but we wouldn't have been angry.

muslim ban.

shame. shame on us. shame on The US.

you are worried 'bout the retribution the democrats may bring given all the perfidy trump has exacted 'pon this nation for near four years? after muslim ban, a part o' us believes we deserve whatever chaos follows.

oh, and clarification: we criticized med dan for ignoring 2018 polls. keep pointing to Presidential 2016 while ignoring we were talking senate seats is suspect, particular as there were the 2018 national elections which took place after trump's election. conspiracy theory away on what you believe is the qanon purposes o' polls, but like it or not, they were accurate in 2018. same polls says senate republicans lose 3-4, with more too close to call. please recall, even senate split won't help trump 'cause we now know where romney stands.... romney, they guy whose character you impugned not so long ago. 

trump's reelection hinges on william barr. whatever bs scandal barr is cooking up, it needs be overwhelming.

oh, and muslim ban. you do not get to avoid muslim ban.

HA! Good Fun!

ps side note on chaos, trump's muslim ban were so inept (chaotic) implemented that it were rejected multiple times by the Courts. what medicine dan ended up with is a ban which also prevents christian refugees fleeing religious persecution in many parts o' the world. 

 

 

Edited August 28, 2020 by Gromnir

[MedicineDan]

2016 was a presidential election.  This cycle is presidential also.  I'm not obfuscating anything Grom.  You can ridicule and disparage me all you want.  Really, I won't hold a grudge.  I won't.  ...And I don't have time to get into a multi-post flame war.  So, I'll leave it stand at this:  you don't help your cause.  Seriously, you don't.  Harangue me on here and get some likes and be board royalty.  All good.  Your pugnacious manner, as Bruce likens it, is wonderful and undoubtedly gives you street cred here, but it's not an effective political tool.  I mean, you need to have some people doing it, but it's overdone in the aggregate and the returns aren't merely diminishing, they're negative.  That's an observation, not an argument.  Folks here probably don't understand that very well or, if they do, they certainly don't act like it.  HoonDing's posts are generally beneath my contempt and certainly beneath my response, but I don't mind crazy assed trawling posts.  The more people talk like HoonDing, the more stock rises for my position with the only people who matter... voters.  By and large, this is true for your statements also by now.  Keep at it.

Now, I don't want to be meanspirited to you, Grom.  Heaven knows, you're a big guy and I don't want you to kick sand in my face.  Console yourself getting some good licks on me, but pointed personal attacks like yours are really the only hope Trump has to win.  Luckily, the left has been providing plenty of such arguments.  Trump certainly isn't going to stay in office by the strength of his rhetoric.  Anyhow, I promise to read your harangue when you post it.  I won't reply, but I look over your Philippics with a smile.

P.S.  Comparing the chaos of Trump's policy decisions with the chaos and rioting of the "resistance movement" is either completely jaded or foolhardy.  Either way, Trump hate has been built into the model already.  Hate might win the day against Trump, but if it does, he's already lost.  Piling on doesn't help your cause.

[Malcador]

On 8/27/2020 at 2:15 PM, MedicineDan said:

Mal asked for an example of something and I can't remember what.

It was on how Biden is normalizing the forces of chaos, not really seeing that other than saying Trump sucks at his job, which is normal for quite some time to say about the incumbent.

[Gromnir]

17 minutes ago, MedicineDan said:

more stuff

am not trying to convince you. in our job, we spent years empathizing with clients and juries. we don't need to do so on a freaking internet message board. is quite liberating.

1) the rioting is happening under trump. weird how trump folks blamed obama for ferguson and baltimore but instead blame mayors for portland.

2) willfully ignore every trump excess and shortcoming do not help your cause. covid-19 won't go away just 'cause you squint eyes, shake head and whistle with all your might to drown out tragedy.

3) keep ignoring 2018? say is different doesn't make it so. is differen't cause is more voter suppression this time? perhaps you suggest is different because trump is campaigning for himself he has less time to mess thing up for collins? might be a legit angle there, but not poll relevant, even with the qanon talking points.

4) muslim ban. you don't get to claim conscience and then ignore  the muslim ban promise.  am suspecting you know this, which is why your tone has changed. 

5) muslim ban

6) muslim ban

7) muslim ban

...

HA! Good Fun!

 

[Gromnir]

17 minutes ago, Malcador said:

It was on how Biden is normalizing the forces of chaos, not really seeing that other than saying Trump sucks at his job, which is normal for quite some time to say about the incumbent.

he is a democrat. therefore, as he has not repudiated sanders and the squad, he is normalizing the forces of chaos.

you need to at least scan fox news headlines or you will not understand the current republican party line as it is devoid o' anything but trump.

HA! Good Fun!

ps we forgot to mention warren. can't hardly go an hour w/o apocalyptic warren sponsored legislation being predicted on fox business.

Edited August 28, 2020 by Gromnir

[Orogun01]

4 minutes ago, Gromnir said:

am not trying to convince you. in our job, we spent years empathizing with clients and juries. we don't need to do so on a freaking internet message board. is quite liberating.

1) the rioting is happening under trump. weird how trump folks blamed obama for ferguson and baltimore but instead blame mayors for portland.

2) willfully ignore every trump excess and shortcoming do not help your cause. covid-19 won't go away just 'cause you squint eyes, shake head and whistle with all your might to drown out tragedy.

3) keep ignoring 2018? say is different doesn't make it so. is differen't cause is more voter suppression this time? perhaps you suggest is different because trump is campaigning for himself he has less time to mess thing up for collins? might be a legit angle there, but not poll relevant, even with the qanon talking points.

4) muslim ban. you don't get to claim conscience and then ignore  the muslim ban promise.  am suspecting you know this, which is why your tone has changed. 

5) muslim ban

6) muslim ban

7) muslim ban

...

HA! Good Fun!

 

1- Trump offered to send federal troops to quell the rioting (Thankfully the governor of Wisconsin acquiesced) Obama sided with his race, despite the looting.

2- Covid-19 was in China around November but they kept the news under wraps. The W.H.O bought China's official statements; hook line and sinker, plus they ignored the advice of every Asian country that knew that China were full of it. Namely Japan, S. Korea and Taiwan.

3, 4 and beyond- Dude, I expect better from you than incoherent rambling. Take some time put more effort and do your (former?) profession proud.

[Gromnir]

16 minutes ago, Orogun01 said:

1- Trump offered to send federal troops to quell the rioting (Thankfully the governor of Wisconsin acquiesced) Obama sided with his race, despite the looting.

2- Covid-19 was in China around November but they kept the news under wraps. The W.H.O bought China's official statements; hook line and sinker, plus they ignored the advice of every Asian country that knew that China were full of it. Namely Japan, S. Korea and Taiwan.

3, 4 and beyond- Dude, I expect better from you than incoherent rambling. Take some time put more effort and do your (former?) profession proud.

1) sending troops to portland helped? course not. predictable, it made worse, which is why they were removed. police is a way to deal with an existing problem. the problems are social and economic which has nothing whatsoever to do with troops. 

2) dear lord. blame initial spread on china and who. then what? having an ocean separating put the US in a slight better position than most o' europe where covid had spread earlier. we had a smaller problem and trump's impotence made worse. we had time and trump golfed. 

talk 'bout rambling.

edit: shouldn't be necessary, but am gonna point out how marginalizing poll relevance 'cause 2016 is just so stoopid. in the decades o' polling, there has been a number o' years and races where the polls got it wrong. small number. the reasonable thing to do is to ignore the overwhelming trend o' accuracy and instead focus on one o' the exceptions to decide whether to put faith in future polls. wait. no. that makes no sense, does it. we tend to look for reasons why exceptions were different, but see the few exceptions as proof o' the fail o' the whole is nutty, particular as 2018 were so freaking accurate. 

and

muslim ban. rambling? *chuckle* is forcing folks to recall trump's promise. explain and we promise not to respond 'cause whatever you say in defense o' the muslim ban will be far more damning than anything we could write.

congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

and yeah, just as does due process and other fundamental rights, those liberties codified in the First Amendment apply to refugees, those seeking asylum and prospective immigrants.

unfreakingamerican, and you voted for the guy.

HA! Good Fun!

Edited August 29, 2020 by Gromnir